My M7060 purchase and usage thread

[lpigott]

Sorry I should have said motor not pump. Their standard unit comes with a 10 gpm motor but since my tractor will have 16 gpm flow they put a 15 gpm motor. Cost was the same.

 

[TripleR]

Well worth reading: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-m9540-belly-skid-plate-brush.html?highlight=

 

[lpigott]

Well worth reading: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-m9540-belly-skid-plate-brush.html?highlight=

Thanks for posting that. I think I will be taking my tractor to a local fab shop and let them fix be up some good protection.

 

[JWR]

Sorry I should have said motor not pump. Their standard unit comes with a 10 gpm motor but since my tractor will have 16 gpm flow they put a 15 gpm motor. Cost was the same.

That is a very interesting looking cutter.

Lookout ! In 2011 I bought a brand new MF2660 and a 5ft super heavy bush hog that mounted on the FEL. My dealer said all was well on paper because my tractor had 14.8gpm hydraulic output and a valve that allows me to ADD flow from the 3pt lift to that feeding the remotes. Total over 17gpm. The hog was bought specifically as a "low flow" unit such that it would supposedly run OK with 14gpm. All was rosy until I tried the cutter on real life brush, clusters of autumn olive bushes with individual stems maybe 1 to 2" thick, etc. Even when I eased into them at full engine rpm and coming down on them so the thinner parts were cut first the cutter bogged down essentially all the time. Unless you are cutting grass and weeds it was worthless. There just was NOT enough flow to have a robust cutting machine at all. If you try to live with such a configuration, make sure you use oversize lines to feed the cutter. And you are going the wrong direction to get a motor that handles 15gpm when you had a 10gpm to start with. You stood one heck of a lot better chance of driving the thing well (without it hanging up and clogging) when the motor needed a lot less flow than you think you are providing. My suspicion is that with long lines from your remotes, losses in connectors, etc. that we really do not get anywhere near the actual flow at rated pressure that the specs claim on paper.
AND a second problem I am betting you have not forseen: "One track mind hydraulics." Essentially ALL open center hydraulic systems have only one pump as the source and in truth will drive, under power, only one function at a time. Manufacturers are masterful using gravity in some axis of a device (esp. the front end loader) to fool you into thinking you are powering more than one function at a time but you are not. The result is that everytime you lift your loader frame or curl the bucket control to tilt your cutter you shut down the cutter motor (!!!) This is a pure mess which indirectly causes abrupt, gut wrenching, starts and stops when you do not want them and prevents any routine "normal" cutting like you anticipate. People do offer expensive flow diverter/divider valves that allow you to keep going on one function a little bit while shifting to doing the other function. That will end up costing you big time $. Strongly advise that you TRY ONE somewhere before you buy it. I learned the hard way that these things do not do what I thought they would.

BY the way, I traded off the hydraulic motor driven front cutter and got a PTO driven rear boom cutter which has 2 of it's own hydraulic pumps -- one for driving the cutter and one for position control. It puts out high flow to the cutter and essentially NEVER bogs down. And with 2 pumps you can change positions, angles, etc. WHILE cutting. Note also that many/most of the skid steers have much higher output hydraulic pumps for implement purposes than our farm tractors AND the loader frame on skid steers is totally independent of the implement pumps. The big front cutter I had probably works really well on someone's skid steer.

 

[Farmer495]

That is a very interesting looking cutter.

Lookout ! In 2011 I bought a brand new MF2660 and a 5ft super heavy bush hog that mounted on the FEL. My dealer said all was well on paper because my tractor had 14.8gpm hydraulic output and a valve that allows me to ADD flow from the 3pt lift to that feeding the remotes. Total over 17gpm. The hog was bought specifically as a "low flow" unit such that it would supposedly run OK with 14gpm. All was rosy until I tried the cutter on real life brush, clusters of autumn olive bushes with individual stems maybe 1 to 2" thick, etc. Even when I eased into them at full engine rpm and coming down on them so the thinner parts were cut first the cutter bogged down essentially all the time. Unless you are cutting grass and weeds it was worthless. There just was NOT enough flow to have a robust cutting machine at all. If you try to live with such a configuration, make sure you use oversize lines to feed the cutter. And you are going the wrong direction to get a motor that handles 15gpm when you had a 10gpm to start with. You stood one heck of a lot better chance of driving the thing well (without it hanging up and clogging) when the motor needed a lot less flow than you think you are providing. My suspicion is that with long lines from your remotes, losses in connectors, etc. that we really do not get anywhere near the actual flow at rated pressure that the specs claim on paper.
AND a second problem I am betting you have not forseen: "One track mind hydraulics." Essentially ALL open center hydraulic systems have only one pump as the source and in truth will drive, under power, only one function at a time. Manufacturers are masterful using gravity in some axis of a device (esp. the front end loader) to fool you into thinking you are powering more than one function at a time but you are not. The result is that everytime you lift your loader frame or curl the bucket control to tilt your cutter you shut down the cutter motor (!!!) This is a pure mess which indirectly causes abrupt, gut wrenching, starts and stops when you do not want them and prevents any routine "normal" cutting like you anticipate. People do offer expensive flow diverter/divider valves that allow you to keep going on one function a little bit while shifting to doing the other function. That will end up costing you big time $. Strongly advise that you TRY ONE somewhere before you buy it. I learned the hard way that these things do not do what I thought they would.

BY the way, I traded off the hydraulic motor driven front cutter and got a PTO driven rear boom cutter which has 2 of it's own hydraulic pumps -- one for driving the cutter and one for position control. It puts out high flow to the cutter and essentially NEVER bogs down. And with 2 pumps you can change positions, angles, etc. WHILE cutting. Note also that many/most of the skid steers have much higher output hydraulic pumps for implement purposes than our farm tractors AND the loader frame on skid steers is totally independent of the implement pumps. The big front cutter I had probably works really well on someone's skid steer.

Yes, unless it's a dedicated aux hyd pump...you won't get full flow. One tractor here has a 15.4 GPM pump, but it runs steering, 3pt, remote, brakes and PTO clutch. One field I remember loosing power steering while lifting 3pt, turning and having PTO engaged. I think I'd have a PTO pump to run ANYTHING heavily Hyd driven on most utility tractors.

 

[sd455dan]

Yes, unless it's a dedicated aux hyd pump...you won't get full flow. One tractor here has a 15.4 GPM pump, but it runs steering, 3pt, remote, brakes and PTO clutch. One field I remember loosing power steering while lifting 3pt, turning and having PTO engaged. I think I'd have a PTO pump to run ANYTHING heavily Hyd driven on most utility tractors.

Wow- needed to have some saplings and brush cut on the mowing job We did to get a property ready to sell.
I mowed the large fields with a standard pto brush hog.

My nephew brought over the Bobcat S 250 skid steer with hy-flo, and rented a hydraulic brush cutter.
though it did cut some big saplings it did slow down from time to time.

I guess the flow demands can be pretty high for some of these hydraulic brush cutters.
The S 250 hy-flo pumps out about 36 gallons per minute.

 

[lpigott]

That is a very interesting looking cutter.

Lookout ! In 2011 I bought a brand new MF2660 and a 5ft super heavy bush hog that mounted on the FEL. My dealer said all was well on paper because my tractor had 14.8gpm hydraulic output and a valve that allows me to ADD flow from the 3pt lift to that feeding the remotes. Total over 17gpm. The hog was bought specifically as a "low flow" unit such that it would supposedly run OK with 14gpm. All was rosy until I tried the cutter on real life brush, clusters of autumn olive bushes with individual stems maybe 1 to 2" thick, etc. Even when I eased into them at full engine rpm and coming down on them so the thinner parts were cut first the cutter bogged down essentially all the time. Unless you are cutting grass and weeds it was worthless. There just was NOT enough flow to have a robust cutting machine at all. If you try to live with such a configuration, make sure you use oversize lines to feed the cutter. And you are going the wrong direction to get a motor that handles 15gpm when you had a 10gpm to start with. You stood one heck of a lot better chance of driving the thing well (without it hanging up and clogging) when the motor needed a lot less flow than you think you are providing. My suspicion is that with long lines from your remotes, losses in connectors, etc. that we really do not get anywhere near the actual flow at rated pressure that the specs claim on paper.
AND a second problem I am betting you have not forseen: "One track mind hydraulics." Essentially ALL open center hydraulic systems have only one pump as the source and in truth will drive, under power, only one function at a time. Manufacturers are masterful using gravity in some axis of a device (esp. the front end loader) to fool you into thinking you are powering more than one function at a time but you are not. The result is that everytime you lift your loader frame or curl the bucket control to tilt your cutter you shut down the cutter motor (!!!) This is a pure mess which indirectly causes abrupt, gut wrenching, starts and stops when you do not want them and prevents any routine "normal" cutting like you anticipate. People do offer expensive flow diverter/divider valves that allow you to keep going on one function a little bit while shifting to doing the other function. That will end up costing you big time $. Strongly advise that you TRY ONE somewhere before you buy it. I learned the hard way that these things do not do what I thought they would.

BY the way, I traded off the hydraulic motor driven front cutter and got a PTO driven rear boom cutter which has 2 of it's own hydraulic pumps -- one for driving the cutter and one for position control. It puts out high flow to the cutter and essentially NEVER bogs down. And with 2 pumps you can change positions, angles, etc. WHILE cutting. Note also that many/most of the skid steers have much higher output hydraulic pumps for implement purposes than our farm tractors AND the loader frame on skid steers is totally independent of the implement pumps. The big front cutter I had probably works really well on someone's skid steer.

Thanks for the input. Stay tuned, I will be posting results with videos. I have been following these guys and in talking to them several times, it seems to me that they have got their system down. Their standard motor of 10 gpm is designed for smaller tractors than mine with lower flow rates. With my higher flow rate we would have needed a bypass or restriction to limit the flow. I do not foresee using much other hyd uses whiles using it either. The unit will not be run from the third function since that would case instant startup and instant stop which does not work good for the motor longevity. Mine will be ran from one of my 3 rear remotes and the return will go directly to the sump to allow for free wheeling spin down. I will be picking up the unit tomorrow and taking it to my dealer and they will plump the hoses as I have specified and have it all set to go on delivery.

 

[lpigott]

Well my new baby has arrived at the dealer and I got to check it out and take some pictures. Unfortunately a few of the dealer installed options did not ship with the tractor and it will be late next week before I actually get the tractor. Good news is since the delay the dealer will add and plumb up my hoses for my Lane Shark after I pick it up and deliver it to them tomorrow. Tic Tok Tick Tok.... It sure looks good though!

 

[lpigott]

Also got some pictures of my attachments. They said the tiller was there but I couldn't find it, their yard is BIG.

 

[lpigott]

Another cool thing is I found out I will be able to score some of there metal equipment pallet frames that can be easily modified into forever wood racks. Kubota takes all theirs back but they have others that they just dispose of, I will see how many I can make off with

 

[JWR]

Wow. Quite a set of purchases ! Really nice.

I'm wanting to understand better the difference you have or expect to have between the "3rd function" on the loader and use of your remotes as hydraulic flow source for the front Lane Shark. My MF2660 may not be a good reference but it is what I have. My 4-in-1 bucket pinch function is run from one of my remotes. That same set of lines was used when I had a FEL-mounted very heavy brush cutter. I think I said before that when I moved my loader (curl or loader frame under force, not gravity) that stops the cutter motor very suddenly and then a very sudden hard runup to full speed again after I stopped moving the loader controls. Besides being awkward and uncomfortable I felt it would eventually result in damage. The hydraulic line pair with connectors mounted on my loader near the bucket was always referred to as the 3rd function so far as I know. Is there some other meaning ? Is there some magic by which the flow taken off the loader (rather than off a remote) changes the "one track mind" hydraulics? I don't see how it would unless there is a flow diverter valve built into your 3rd function flow source. I had heard that some larger Kubotas had factory options for complex hydraulic valving (?) By the way, my remotes seem to have a pretty large and direct return line to the sump.
Maybe you can explain/set me straight ?

 

[lpigott]

Wow. Quite a set of purchases ! Really nice.

I'm wanting to understand better the difference you have or expect to have between the "3rd function" on the loader and use of your remotes as hydraulic flow source for the front Lane Shark. My MF2660 may not be a good reference but it is what I have. My 4-in-1 bucket pinch function is run from one of my remotes. That same set of lines was used when I had a FEL-mounted very heavy brush cutter. I think I said before that when I moved my loader (curl or loader frame under force, not gravity) that stops the cutter motor very suddenly and then a very sudden hard runup to full speed again after I stopped moving the loader controls. Besides being awkward and uncomfortable I felt it would eventually result in damage. The hydraulic line pair with connectors mounted on my loader near the bucket was always referred to as the 3rd function so far as I know. Is there some other meaning ? Is there some magic by which the flow taken off the loader (rather than off a remote) changes the "one track mind" hydraulics? I don't see how it would unless there is a flow diverter valve built into your 3rd function flow source. I had heard that some larger Kubotas had factory options for complex hydraulic valving (?) By the way, my remotes seem to have a pretty large and direct return line to the sump.
Maybe you can explain/set me straight ?

I had the same questions as you when talking to the manufacturer since I was wanting to run the LS with the 3rd function. He explained that while it will work, it is far from ideal and will result in premature motor failure since the 3rd function is basically a full on or full off valve. This is great for driving cylinders but not for driving hyd motors that have mass to drive up to speed. The same mass needs to disapate it's energy by spinning down freely instead of the motor abruptly trying to stop it. By using one line from a rear remote you can "ease into it" to spin the cutter up and then it can freewheel down by the return going directly into the sump. He did a good job of explaining it where I could understand, he says they have spend a lot of time working with the setup and this is the best way to go.

 

[JWR]

I'm still puzzled. Whatever valve drives the front cutter needs to run continuously or at least allow you to "set it and forget it" so it is running continuously. With an open center system, when you raise the loader frame or curl the bucket mount, that will cut off flow to any other devices such as remotes suddenly. Then when you stop curling or raising the frame (by using the loader valve, not the valve driving the cutter) the flow suddenly returns to the cutter. Your dealer no doubt knows what he is doing but I do not see how you get around that situation.

 

[lpigott]

The only thing that will cut flow off to a "set" remote would be if the pressure dropped enough to divert all the flow away from the open valve. I could see that happening if you were to get crazy with loader movements but you would not in operation of the cutter. normal slow movements won't rob enough flow rate to stop the cutter in normal situations. I don't foresee whipping the loader up and down while the cutter in engaged in heavy cutting. Look at this video of a tractor with a much lower flow rate than mine with the cutter operating while the loader is being operated.Lane Shark USA - YouTube

 

[TripleR]

Just a friendly suggestion, but if at all possible, get a better/heavier box scraper. My original scraper is rarely used for anything, but a bit of counter balance.

 

[JWR]

The only thing that will cut flow off to a "set" remote would be if the pressure dropped enough to divert all the flow away from the open valve. I could see that happening if you were to get crazy with loader movements but you would not in operation of the cutter. normal slow movements won't rob enough flow rate to stop the cutter in normal situations. I don't foresee whipping the loader up and down while the cutter in engaged in heavy cutting. Look at this video of a tractor with a much lower flow rate than mine with the cutter operating while the loader is being operated.Lane Shark USA - YouTube

The inherent nature of open center hydraulic systems is that only one device gets flow under pressure at a time. I am not sure of the effect of "power beyond" connections (or even why they are used.) My loader valve is fed by a power beyond connection from near the remotes. When my loader valve calls for motion, whatever is connected to my remotes is shut off for any flow under pressure. That means ANY motion called for by the loader valve stops feed from the remotes and there is no crazy movement or demands involved.

 

[Fallon]

I have a true 3rd function on my L4060 & a hydraulic PHD. It's a bit awkward to raise or lower the PHD while it's spinning as the loader kills the PHD motor. Not a big deal as it spins slow, but I could see problems with something that's fast with a lot of momentum like a rotary cutter. You'll be surprised how often you need to tweak things with the loader I bet.

My other issue is lack of relief. The hoses jump a lot when I let go of the go button. I picked up a double acting relief valve, but have yet to plumb it in. I hope I get to it before a line blows... Sounds like you might already have this sorted out though.

 

[lpigott]

Just a friendly suggestion, but if at all possible, get a better/heavier box scraper. My original scraper is rarely used for anything, but a bit of counter balance.

The box blade I’m getting is very heavy and beefy although the picture may not show it. I just came back from showing it to a tractor buddy and he was impressed how heavy duty it was. It was sitting beside Land Pride units and made them look like toys.

 

[lpigott]

Well I drove to Pensacola yesterday and picked up the Lane Shark. Had a nice conversation with the owner, Travis. My wife and I were both impressed with the time he took explaining the unit and I can't wait to try it out. I took it directly to my dealer and they will be running the hyd hoses and plumbing the tractor up for it. What I will end up with, in addition to my 3rd function QDs on the front of the loader is another set of QDs for the Lane Shark. Met the owner of the dealership and he was also impressed with how the Lane Hark looked and asked a bunch of questions about it. He also told me that the accessories missing from my tractor were being sent with their next shipment of tractors from GA and should be there Monday. He also told me that they are presently the highest volume dealer in the USA for Kubota. Kinda hard for me to believe but they sure are moving some units from what I have witnessed there. Regardless if true or not, it is nice to know that I will have a major dealer that seems very interested in my satisfaction just 25 miles from my house.

 

[lpigott]

Checked in with the dealer today and the only thing they are waiting on now is the third function valve kit. Hopefully they will have everything else done and then all they will have to do is the hyd plumbing for the 3rd function and my front mower. Weather is super nice and cool here this morning so jumped on the ole NH 3930 and bush hogged a few food plots that I will get to try the new tiller out on later this week.