My New Z-Force 48

[MBDiagMan]

Well, I picked up my new Z-Force 48" yesterday and now I can't wait to mow with it. The rain is supposed to clear tomorrow and then be in the 70's through Sunday.

I originally was looking at an RZT 50 at a good price, but when I got to the chain store I learned that both of them they had were used and returned with hydrostatic drive problems. They were still wanting a slightly discounted new mower price.

I then started calling around to see what kind of fall closeout price I could find and came up with this one NEW about 50 easy, country miles away so I went after it yesterday. I got $800 off list.

I have been mowing with a 12 or 13 year old 2145 with a single cylinder Onan and hydrostatic drive. The twin cylinder engine on the Z-Force is really smooth by comparison and it will be nice to be able to briefly get off the mower with the engine running. The seat switch does not allow this on the 2145.

Also, comparing the RZT to the Z-Force, the hydrostatic drives on the RZT were EXTREMELY noisy. So much so that it just sounded like something was coming apart. The drives on the Z-force sound really good.

The deck on the Z-Force seems to be much more substantial than the deck on the RZT. The frame and everything seem more substantial on the Z-Force as well.

I did lots of telephone shopping on Monday and was shocked at the prices for the other 48 or 50 inch zero turn radius mowers on the market. This was the only one that I could get under $4,000 that seemed to be built very well. There were some that went up to over $7,000 and weren't even considered commercial grade.

The used RZT was going to be $2,700, was used and did not seem to be nearly as well built as the Z-Force. Additionally, they have different drives that have proven to be problematic. I found a new RZT 50 for $3,000, but it didn't seem to be worth the risk of drive failure and having a lighter built unit for only $300 off list.

I expect to mow with it this weekend, so I will report back with a performance review after that.

Have a great day,
Doc

 

[erosol]

You'll be back with lots of problems too!! They are junk and return it before it's too late. You'll be sorry you didn't!! I have lots of problems with it, belts, transmission going out. Don't sell your other one yet, you'll be needing it when that new one is in the shop, and it will soon. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[DmansPadge]

I don't think anyone should base their decision on one persons bad luck with a mower. There will always be a lemon or two out there. People on this site sell the Cubs and has seen very few problems with them.

 

[riches139]

it will be nice to be able to briefly get off the mower with the engine running. The seat switch does not allow this on the 2145.

Don't think you'll be able to do that on the z either, without disconnecting or looping the switch, which will void your warranty.

Like erosol said, get rid of it. Cheap imitation of their commercial units.

 

[gamble77]

Im not trying to make enemies here, but listen guys...these units are GREAT for homeowners. They are some of the best built zero turns on the market for under $4000. My dealership could sell any brand we wanted to, and we picked Cub for residental units. A few bad experiences don't mean squat, I dare you to show me one forum here without a few complaints.

Well sell the fire out of these units and problems are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN.

 

[DmansPadge]

I glad to see someone sticking up for the Cubs!

 

[MBDiagMan]

erosol,

Come on. Open up. Tell us how you REALLY feel. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My dealer is known and trusted in the community. He said that there were a few hydrostatic units that were put together with a problem and were replaced with updated units. It sounds like you got one.

BTW, which belt was jumping on yours, the belt around the three spindles, or the drive belt from the engine?

riches139,

I have already gotten off the mower with the engine running. By simply setting the parking brake and opening the steering levers outward the engine stays running. You can easily step straight forward off the front. Very convenient if you have to move something out of the way, or for someone emptying a bagger (I don't bag any more.)



Time will tell, but I think this mower will serve me well.

Have a great day,
Doc

As far as belts jumping off, the deck is very similar to me older Cub Cadet and I will be surprised if there is a problem that I can't fix. If the idler stop bolt gets broken or the idler spring is not free it will throw a belt. Additionally if you are trying to mow extra tall grass that should be mowed with a tractor and shredder or if you mow wet grass, all mowers will be overtaxed.

 

[sterlingtrucks]

I have a RZT22 and have had no problems with it. I mow 4 acres with it and my neighbor uses it for his yard and he has 3 acres. If this machine was gonna break I am sure it would of by now. I think these cubs are great machines and I am very pleased with the brand.

 

[DmansPadge]

Keep 'em coming! Another person standing up for the Cubs! I don't personally own a Cub, but I am considering buying one this spring. I think they are great products for the money. You can spend 2-3 times as much for a Kubota, Dixie Chopper, Exmark, and so on... those are all great machines that will probably give you years of trouble free use, but, the bang for the buck goes to CC! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[erosol]

My drive belt broke after only 5-6 hours use. I didn't want the thing after having problems with the trasnmission and being without it for a few weeks. I wanted a refund, the the owner at Sims Tractors in Sevierville, TN told me he wouldn't do it, "This isn't McDonld's", he said! The guy was a big *******, and wouldn't ever deal with his place again, and will make sure I tell everyone else thinking of going there. I did buy another Cub Cadet LT1080 and have 85 hours on it now with no problems. BEWARE! The Z turns are also very dangerous to use on any kind of hill or slopes. They just won't stop and you can turn or stop them when they slide.

Not happy at all with the Z turns! Bad product, and they know it!

 

[MBDiagMan]

erosol,

You said the belt broke after 6 to 8 hours, but you still did not indicate the conditions under which you were mowing. Since you were having problems "sliding" I am led to believe that you might be trying to mow under conditions that are too wet.

I live on relatively flat ground and I've run a Dixon quite alot with no problems stopping it when necessary. Of course, I don't mow under wet conditions.

Have a great day,
Doc

 

[MBDiagMan]

I just did a little mowing with it this afternoon and I was very pleased. It's very responsive, maybe even almost too sensitive to the controls.

The blade height adjustment is difficult to tell which setting you are on.

The mower is so fast that you have to watch your speed so that it cuts well.

The fuel tank and the utility plastic piece opposite the fuel tank are kind of hung out with no protection. It's easy to forget about them when mowing around a tree trunk or something. I might make a guard to keep from draggin them off, especially the fuel tank.

All in all I am very pleased. The cut is much wider than what I have been mowing with so that's a real bonus. There is one place where there are two trees close together that it will not fit between, but it is manuevarable enough to get all the grass cut between the trees with a little jockeying around.

Believe it or not, it hasn't broken a drive belt or had a hydro unit fail yet! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

With that 22HP engine right behind you without a shroud of any kind, it is a little noisier than my other mowers.

Have a great day,
Doc

 

[MBDiagMan]

Well, yesterday I mowed a small section in front of my house just to get the feel of the mower. Today I gave it a REAL workout and was QUITE pleased.

I mowed the yard around my house which is about a 1/2 acre of common bermuda with some bahia grass in places. If anyone is familiar with bahia grass, you know that it is EXTREMELY hard to cut. The lawn had not been mowed in two weeks so it was pretty easy to mow. The section I mowed yesterday, I did at a pretty tall blade setting. Today I mowed on the second setting which is supposed to be 2". It cut like a hot knife through butter.

It seemed to cut better at the lower setting. At the higher setting yesterday it seemed to leave a few tall blades if I ran too fast. At the 2" setting it seemed like you could run over it at any speed and would cut well.

After I finished with that, I mowed a section of "bar ditch" as we call it in Texas. This is about a 30 feet wide section between the edge of the road and the fence. It is indeed a ditch, so the lower part was still a little wet. The grass is a thick mixture of bahia and coastal bermuda and was about a foot tall. I cut it on the fourth setting which would be about 3". Again it went through it like a hot knife through butter. I did experience a little of the sliding around on the wet slope as erosol described, but with gentle application of the control levers it was no problem.

I then mowed another 1/2 acre that is between my barn and the road. It is a mix of everything you can imagine with lots of bahia grass. Again, I don't think the engine ever lost RPM at all. I like the 22HP with only 48" cut. I see lots of other Zero turns with less HP and more cut width. Like 18HP and 50" cut. If you were cutting only a well kept grass lawn and not letting it grow very tall, and never cutting while wet, that would probably be okay, but those are not always the conditions I have to deal with.

After spending more time getting the feel of the machine, I don't think I will have to disable the reverse mow interlock switches. With not much practice I was able to keep one or the other levers from going in reverse in most all situations.

Another technique I rembered having to learn with my Dixon that is necessary with any Zero radius is using a gentle touch on the levers to keep both wheels from spinning. When turning, you have to let off the inboard lever and add a good bit on the outboard lever to swing it around without digging a trench with an inboard spinning wheel. The temptation is to pull back hard on the inboard lever to make it turn. If you do that, it will reverse the inboard wheel causing the divot.

A little practice and you can master this machine easy. I've sat on it a couple of hours now and feel that I have it mastered.

I see no indications that this is a junky machine. I really feel that it is a lot of machine for the money in todays ZTR market.

Have a great day,
Doc

 

[spook]

I have a Z-Force 48 and have over 40 hours logged with absolutely no problems. Very happy with it. Very well built and sturdy machine for the money. Just make sure you keep the tires inflated to the pressure in the manual. Lots and lots of grease zerts, replaceable spindle bearings, and much more. This is not a cheapo throw away machine. To get off while running, just place the steering bars out, shut off the clutch, set the brake, and get off. Very easy. Not much I'd change on it. If Cub Cadet (MTD) put a fabricated deck on it and a shroud for the engine and you are as close to a commercial as you can get.
It does seem to mow best at 2 1/2 inches or less but then, around here, with percentile rye and bluegrass, that's plenty tall for the grass. Mows wet grass very well too. Using it with Gator blades to mulch and bag leaves. Keep everything greased and oiled and I think this thing is good to go for many years.
By the way, I wasn't very impressed with the RZT. Seemed to be much lighter built.

 

[spook]

One other thing. What's this about not being to mow in reverse? In all the years I've been mowing I've never felt the need to mow in reverse, especially with a ztr. I'm sure there must be times when this is a necessity (??) but the reason escapes me.
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[MBDiagMan]

spook,

Yes, I see the grease fittings as a serious advantage. My other CubCadet is 12 or 13 years old and I have kept it greased. I have never lost a bearing or bushing where there is a grease fitting installed. It only takes a few minutes to go around it with a grease gun.

I think the mowing in reverse issue involves two different things; one is if you mow an obstacle course like I do. I don't mow in reverse per se, but find myself needing to back up a few feet at times. When I am backing up a few feet I don't necessarily need to have the deck running, but it is the added wear and tear on the clutch that concerns me. The other issue just involves practice. With a little practice you learn to make clean turns that do not leave any spots uncut, thus eliminating the need to back up and clean up the missed spot.

You are right about not needing to mow in reverse with a zero radius mower. I would hate to think, however, about not having the deck running in reverse on a regular lawn tractor. With the obstacles I deal with it would add SIGNIFICANT time to my mowing. For instance, to go around a tree on a conventional lawn tractor, I mow up close and pass the tree a little, back up to get a different angle, go forward and so forth until I work my way around the tree. Without reverse mowing, I would be messing around for a good while to mow around the tree.

I pulled down the side control panels last night and pulled the reverse switches out, turned them around and tie wrapped them in place so that they are never actuated. It took about a half hour to do this.

Have you had any problem with the gas tank or the plastic molding opposite the gas tank making contact with tree trunks or other obstacles? I am thinking of fabricating a rear bumper that wraps around the corners to protect these plastic pieces, especially the gas tank.

Yes I think there is no comparison between the RZT and the Z-Force. Of course there is a significant price difference as well.

I enjoyed your comments and feedback.

Have a great day,
Doc

 

[spook]

Well, I've never worried about obstacles. That's what string trimmers are for. Of course, I guess my theory is a bit lacking if you have a large piece of property. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I do see, now, where it would be useful. I always worried that one of my kids would come up on me from behind without me seeing them. Let's face it. We're not always as alert as we should be, sometimes.
As far as the gas tank and the side console, I haven't had any problem with them catching. I have had the deck wheels catch posts and trees as I was trying to circle them too close. Also, Sometimes, if I get too close in on a bush or shrub, the throttle catchs on it and drops the speed. Also, it took me a little while to get used to the bagger on the ztr as it sticks out on the side and if I'm too close to something when I make a near zero turn, I tended to catch the bagger. But I'm much better now. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[ihcubs]

They had problems with the belts, your cub dealer can get kits to fix them with. The most problems were with the 44".
Buy the snapper 44" for around 4000.00 and get a much better mower. It also has the hydraulic pumps too, which are much better than what cub, toro, dixon, husqvarna and about everyone else is using in there z's in this price range.

 

[MBDiagMan]

ihcubs,

You must be looking at a different Snapper model than I did. I looked at a Snapper with 18HP Kohler and, I think, 48" cut. It was fall discounted to $3800.

It did not have greasable spindles, thus I expect that they were not Timken bearing. It had a stamped deck. It had very few grease fittings and non pneumatic tires on the front. It looked pretty flimsy to me.

The hydro units in the RZT CC's have had lots of problems, but they are called EZT units, while the ones in the Z-Force are different and called IZT units.

I think it's sort of a Ford vs. Chevy thing. Many people have opinions, and there are cars of ALL brands that give trouble. You either get lucky or you don't.

BTW. What brand mower do you have, a Snapper?

Have a great day,
Doc

 

[MBDiagMan]

ihcubs,

I did a little internet research to learn more about these hydro units.

The manufacturer is Hydro-Gear and can be seen at their website of the same name.

There are two basic units that they sell for use on residential Zero Turn or commercial walk behinds. The IZT and the EZT. You can tell by looking at the pictures that the IZT would be much more sturdy. It has a 25MM (1 inch) axle shaft where the EZT has a 3/4 inch axle shaft. You can see that the casting of the IZT is larger and arranged such that the axle is much better supported.

Many of the residential units I've seen have the EZT unit and they are among the flimsiest looking mowers. These should not be confused with the IZT, which as indicated by the manufacturer are recommended for walk behinds for commercial use.

It also appears that these units are basically a hydraulic pump AND the hydraulic motor in the same casting. I fully expect that the rotating mechanisms are the same as found in their products that they sell for plumbing to be done by the OEM.

The only disadvantage to the integral unit is that it is not servicable as far as changing fluid and filter. For non commercial use, I doubt that this will present a problem unless the machine is abused.

You might take a look at their website if you're interested in learning some facts about these units.

Have a great day,
Doc