My orange review and bad mood

[Anonymous Poster]

I just spent 2 hours at the dealer with blue and orange. I finally seen a BX series tractor I couldn't stop laughing at this tiny wimpy thing! it looks like a Murray 20hp rider mower from Kmart painted orange. I moved to the B7500 with turf tires and stood on the side of it with one hand I grabbed the rops and started rocking the tractor and easily wobbling it to the point of the rear tires coming off the ground! A B2410 was sitting on the side of that with bar turf tires and loader. I asked the dealer if I could pull my dump body pickup in the yard and see what tractors can load it he said no problem. 5'8" is the height of the side rails of my truck. The little B2410 could not raise high enough to clear the 5'8" side! He raised the bucket as high as it could go and it was about 2" shy. Before he parked the tractor I asked him what I ased many people "can you lower the bucket and dig into the ground like 2 0r 3 inch and drive forward and make a path or trench" he said ohh yeah no problem (like most people I asked replied) I said please show me so he lowered the bucket and raised the front tires off the ground and barely cut 1/4 inch scrape in the dirt parking lot possably flattened an ant hill. I said laughing I seen enough. I was upset there were no B2710 or B2910 with a loader in stock to try but he said next week to come back for them. The next tractor he fired up was the L3010 it seems like what I may want. He drove the 3010 it sounded nice and quiet and ran smooth. He raised the loader all the way and it cleared the side of my truck no problem and seemed to reach close enough to the center of the bed to load my truck fairly easy but he was only 1 or 2 inches from hitting the side of my truck. I was happy with the 3010 for that but when I asked if he could demonstrate lowering the bucket to see if it could take a bite out of the ground he said he didn't want to scratch the paint of the bucket because that tractor was shiny new. The next tractor was the used TC25D the best looking and most comfortable of the bunch but the engine sounded rough compared to the kubota. He raised the bucket as high as it could go and demonstrated the reach into my truck and it was about the same as the L3010 I asked for a demonstration if he would lower the bucket (this bucket was well worn so scratches were no excuse) and take a bite out of the dirt parking lot or give me a quick example of the power. He said no he didn't want to gouge up the parking lot. This is a 400' x 400' pothole riddled dirt well worn by heavy equiptment parking lot and I said are you serious? There were no bad vibes between me and the salesperson we got along fine I think he was afraid to demonstrate that these little tractors are wimpy. I think if a little 2" maple tree sapling stump was on my lawn it would stop the B7500 dead in its tracks with the loader down. I need to check out a B2910 against a L3010 and TC25D so far I think the L3010 but how the heck can I see one in action?

 

[Bird]

Franco, I'm guessing that the L3010 (or even bigger) would probably be the best tractor for you, based on what you say you want it to do. However, if you're wanting a tractor with which you can dig the front edge of the bucket 2" to 3" into the ground and drive forward cutting a trench, I think you may be in for a disappointment. Sure, my B2710 will do that in loose or soft dirt, but if you try it on hard ground, like the parking lot you mentioned, you'll either just scratch the surface, or else you'll just spin your tires. I've cut a lot of such trenches in the last 5 years, sometimes to make a trench; sometimes to get a bucketful of dirt to move elsewhere. And I'd say about 75% of the time, I either need to run over that ground first with the tiller to loosen it up, or else I use the box blade. Good luck with your tractor shopping.

Bird

 

[Wheeldog]

Franco,

I had picked up a brochure on the B-series the other day, and they've got some pretty detailed information on the different loaders. Sounds like you saw a demonstration of how the loaders on the B7500 and B2410 would come up short in loading your truck. For the LA402 loader (used on the B2710/2910), the listed maximum lift height is 82.3 in. to bucket pivot and the clearance w/bucket dumped is 65.5 in.

I've been comparing the NH TC21 w/ the B7500, and the bucket height caught my eye also. The larger NH tractors (TC25/29/33) use the 7308 loader, which has a clearance with bucket dumped of 83.3 inches. Max. lift height is 101 in.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Franco, seems like you have set your expectations to high for the compact tractor. It's called compact for a reason.I suggest buying a 963 CAT if you are planning on digging hard packed ground. For their size, the compact tractors are very strong. Try operating one and you will see for yourself. A lot of guys on this forum have the tractors you call wimpy and enjoy their investments. It's not smart to put down other peoples equipment.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Try an L48 with a tooth bar, it will dig the road albeit slowly. It is a terrible use for ANY tractor, even a Case 580 TLB. A road gets a compacted crust on it. If you really want to dig it with no strain on the equipment (and still stay with something small) check out the KX161 Kubota excavator! I watched a guy tearing up a road with a 50,000 dozer, it was a struggle for THAT to get through the crust.

A bigger excavator, Cat 312 (26,000) lbs on up is the easiest, or a big track loader with teeth on the bucket.

If you break the crust with a rear box scraper with scarifier tips, even the little compacts can do the job, I have done that with my 5000LB Ford NH TLB, but it is not an efficient use of equipment.

I have a BX and an L35 1800lbs and 6200lbs. Both have their uses that a bigger piece of equipment cannot handle, space, convenience and fun wise.

 

[art]

I'd love to see you in a car lot. Or was it just the salesperson. Knowing what you need and want to do you could have kept the chase a lot shorter. Didn't they ask what size you were looking for?

 

[roysallis]

Franco,
Are you stuck on orange or blue? If not then you might want to look at the John Deere 4700. I think it is the largest of compact tractors. It is 48 hp (40 hp @ PTO with HST), 4wd, tilt wheel, cruise,and more, and I think it will handle 4 SCVs.

 

[JerryG]

Art,
I know that you have been the business for quite some time. I also appears that you try to work with your customers to get them the tractor that they need and also within the parameters that they want. It is strange to me that this is not what some dealers do. Even it you go in and all you need is to know how much for the tractor and you know all of the options that you want. Talk price and delivery date. In other works you know exactly what you want before you go to see them. I did all this. I went to my area NH dealer to make a purchase…. All I could get out of the salesman was that “YOU DON’T WANT A TC 33: You want and need the size I want you to have”. After about 30 to 45 minutes of that I had all I was going to take and got in the truck and left.
The next day I bought a new MF 1250-4. I am glad that I did. I got more tractor for quite a bit less money. I have put 600 hours on it sense last 13 months.
All dealers don’t listen to their potential customers………..
JerryG

 

[Thomas]

Franco,
I'm little confused about how you express yourself about the BX mostly also the B7500&B2410,than you were upset for the dealer had no B2710&B2910 on the lot.
If the L3010 was only 1 or 2 inches away from hitting the side of your truck than why do you want to check out a B2910???
I do understand when tractor shopping one likes to ask questions also see the tractor in actions...but...lets not forget about the dealer plus other customers which maybe watching or listening,no matter if its K,NH,J.D.etc..

I don't mean to rough up some feathers,just my 2 cents worth. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The L3010 he drove up to my truck about 2 inches from "hitting it" because he had to get the tractor front grill right up against the truck to reach in towards the center of the truck bed to demonstrate that if you dump material it would fall close to the center of the bed where you want it not at the sides. The lift of the L3010 bucket can go about 2 feet higher than the side of my truck so a B2910 could maybe load it also. A B7500 or B2410 could never load a dump body pickup truck.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Franco, another suggestion is to buy a used L4850 like mine and use the bucket to flip your truck over and then put dirt on it. It could easily flip your truck and can dig very well, oh yeah, its still in the compact tractor category. Seriously though, you need to understand what the limitations of compacts are. Try listening to a well informed salesperson, those that are well informed can help you understand this and which tractor would best suit your needs. If your loading a pickup, which holds next to nothing in terms of cubic yards, a smaller tractor will be best. Just as a compact tractor is no JD 710, a pickup is no dump truck. Rat...

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Wow I never thought of that...you mean I don't need a 5 yard bucket on a loader to load my 3 yard dump body? Hmmm... all I know is I could flip a B7500 over with my bare hands and bury it with a spade shovel so I guess your tractor is much larger considering my 94 3500 diesel dump body pickup with backpack toolbox weighs 7800lbs EMPTY. I bought the truck for tree service not soil hauling but I have delivered a 4.5 ton load of wet silt with this truck no problem. I wanted something a little smaller than a L3010 for landscaping chores. I (without ever seeing one, just going by all the info I read on the net) thought a B2710 was exactly what I needed but after looking over a B7500 & B2410 I'm not sure. one thing I want to do is at my sister's house she has a 100' long stretch of mounded soil near her property line it's 4' high & about 4' wide bordering the woods. It was earth that a dozer pushed when grading the property kind of like a giant speedbump thet left bordering the woods. Anyway there doesnt seem to be any large rock and it's been there for years and compacted soil. I was hoping for a compact that could bite into it and slowly nibble away and could actually load it into my truck cause I need to haul it away. I would say there is 200 yards of soil to remove. I think a L3010 may do the job, I would rather get a TC25D or B2710 if they can handle this sort of thing because most other chores I will have will be light duty and they are $2000. less. I guess I'll never know because I don't see how I could ever see one in action. If I had the property and the need I would go bigger but I don't.

 

[msocko3]

<font color=blue>Hmmm... all I know is I could flip a B7500 over with my bare hands and bury it with a spade shovel.

<font color=black>You probably could flip it with your bare hands, after all it's not that big or heavy of a tractor, but then for some people it will do more than what they need.

<font color=blue> so I guess your tractor is much larger considering my 94 3500 diesel dump body pickup with backpack toolbox weighs 7800lbs EMPTY.

<font color=black>When not in use maybe you could lend a friend of mine your truck, he could use the 7800lbs to help his Mack tri axle dump truck go through the snow, should be able to use the 55 ton Grove crane to toss it in the back./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Bird]

Franco, as for that 4' high and 4' wide mound of dirt, my B2710 could handle that easily. HOWEVER, if it's been there long enough, compacted tight enough, consists of hard clay, has saplings or other vegetation that's taken root, I might have to tear it up with the scarifiers on the box blade first.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

get yourself a L3000DT.. it is cheaper than the 2710 or 2910 but stronger and heavier.. and while i will noy get into the sarcastic portion of your posts i agree that the bx and b class are too fragile for me as well especially at them high prices.. the L3000DT is a simple but strong and easy to use machine that can do 50 percent more work, IMO than a B class machine

 

[JATO_RaT]

Franco, one other idea is a skid steer. Unless your on sloping land, a skid steer is very tuff to beat for speed, attachments and price. Bobcat makes a ton of attachments that even for someone in the tree business would find incredibly helpful. Grapplers and 4 N 1 buckets for starters. The loading height and ability to change buckets at the flip of a lever is unprecidented for a relatively small (but heavy) machine. Rat...

 

[JATO_RaT]

Franco, one other thing I wanted to mention is that it is frustrating to even consider spending the kind of money needed to buy a tractor and not put it through the paces before buying it. I have a dealer that if he has the tractor you want in stock, will allow you to take it home and use it for the weekend. That being said, he has yet to have the one I want in stock. Having never considered a really small tractor like the BX, I can only imagine what their abilities or lack there of are, I have looked at the 3000 and up Kubotas and find that these ones start getting more into what I would want in a tractor. Things like loader lift and bucket size, tire sizes and PTO HP. One thing that really makes me lean towards a Kubota is its exceptionally well built and designed hydrostatic transmission (HST). Rat...

 

[john_bud]

Franco,
I don't know about getting rid of the 4' tall x 4' wide and 100' long mound of dirt, but I DO know that with my L3410 HST I was able to MAKE a similar mound of dirt as an erosion control feature and hopefully to form a mud duck pond next spring. I spent a total of 8 to 10 hours digging the dirt, mounding it up and slowly backing up the edge of the mound to compact it with the weight from the rear tires. I would guess that if you had 2 or 3 trucks and drivers to haul loads, you could get rid of your mound in an easy weekend.

Have fun,
jb

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Franco, I think I've figured out your problem. At some point during your career in the tree business, you have hit your head and forgotten how to ask for advice without putting down equipment other people on this forum own, and works well for their application.
Why don't you rent a tractor the size you think you need and try it out on your sister's property. You will learn alot more if you operate the tractor instead of shaking it. Apparently you have never run a compact tractor or you would not be making all of the wise cracks you have been making. If you are buying a tractor, buy one that's the right size for you, and not your sister, unless she's paying for it?
I really don't see why you even need a tractor since you can bury a 7500 with your bare hands. Take your spade shovel and your mighty " dump truck " and move that dirt.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Why are you even putting your worthless smartass comment I couldn't care less of you or your opinion when you speak to me that way. I didn't come here to brag about machines and am not impressed when someone mentions there big rig whoopdee doo. I end up sounding like a fool when I respond to a fool and I only want to talk serious for now on. Sorry if I offended people using the smaller B series but I really was shocked that the machines were so small and expensive and I truly feel that they are probly good for some implements and mowing but not loader groundbreaking work I am an aggressive loud mouth with a temper at times and thats the mood after leaving the dealership that day I really felt the B7500 & B2410 are toys no bigger than the lawn tractors at home depo. I don't have much knowledge about the tractors but I need a compact tractor for many unmentioned chores and will be purchasing one soon my next quest is to try and find one to test for myself but I don't think a dealer near me does that sort of thing and I don't know where to rent a orange or blue compact but if I did I would put it through the test. I learned alot from a few informative people here the only name I can remember off the top of my head is Bird with the B2710 he gave me some good insight about his opinion of the B2710 and I will hopefully find one to check out with a loader soon and decide if I will buy the B2710 or The L3010 as far as blue I'm going to take one last look at the TC25D I think I'm done with questions here and this board helped steer me in the right direction I will probly buy from carver and already saved the cash up but my local dealers get one chance to match the price first.