My Pond Project

[ETD66SS]

Eddie, I'm more concerned about the slope below the water line.

It's a 4:1 slope about 6 ft under the water line, then goes to a 3:1 from 6 ft to about 10 ft deep, then is about 2:1 the rest of the way.

My clay is about 7 ft under from grade, so to seal the banks I have to spread clay down that far.

I just can't do a slope steeper than 4:1 with my D6C dozer, found that out yesterday after I had to change my underwear!

I just don't want cattails & other weeds choking the banks of my pond...

I used a 4 ft long level and a tape rule, it's pretty much 4:1 all around the pond down to about 8 ft from grade, then it gets steeper.

More pics: whitedwarf3's photos. Get free image hosting at ImageCave.com - free image hosting at ImageCave.com

 

[Tororider]

That was my thought, slope under the water and weeds. I am not sure what the correct ratio is for keeping weeds down. If I can find it I will let you know.

 

[EddieWalker]

If I remember correctly, the secret to keeping weed down along the shoreline is deep water. The faster it drops, the less area that they have to grow in. Four feet is where most of them loose there ability to grow, but some are still able to survive in 6 feet of water. Cattails are the worse, and I think 4 ft is their limit. Water Lilies are capable of growing in 6ft of water, but that's the extreme situation.

It sounds like your slope is as steep as you can get it. That's all you can do. If something grows in the small amount of shallow water along your shoreline, you will either have to take it out, poison it, or live with it. I have about two feet of plan growth aroudn my pond in the water that I like allot. There is a variety of plants that came up and they just scream out to me, natural pond. It's also excellent habitat and a safe zone for my minnows and baby fish.

Eddie

 

[meadowlarkponds]

It's certainly true, in my experience, that deep water discourages weeds...but equally discouraging, if not even more so for cattails, is the presence of clay. Cattails like sandy soil with lots of humus and organic matter. If you can "clay" the shallower areas, you won't have a cattail problem. Water weeds, like regular land weeds, do not do well in clay soils.

 

[Tororider]

Eddie brings up a good point. Weeds provide a "nursery" for small bluegill and baitfish, so make sure that you have some other sort of structure, ie rockpiles, pallets, etc so you can try to keep your baitfish as long as possible. I don't know if you plan on swimming in it you may just want to work on one "beach" area and then try to keep the weeds to a minimum in the rest of the area. Looks good though, keep sending the pics.

 

[patrick_g]

Please, all you guys who know that LMB don't thrive and reproduce in small ponds, well under an acre, don't let my bass know that as they have been doing fine for many years in one of my smallest ponds. It is very productive with healthy good sized LMB.

I have 12 ponds (mostly small) and this is about the next to smallest one. The bass thrive in the largest ponds too but no better than this little pond.

Your project looks really nice and I wish you the best of luck with it.

Pat

 

[ETD66SS]

Latest pic's.

My Dad and I finished laying clay all along the rear of the pond.

Next weekend I'll be ready to start digging the last 1/3 of the pond, hopefully I can get to 20 ft deep in the last section.

whitedwarf3's photos. Get free image hosting at ImageCave.com - free image hosting at ImageCave.com

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Please, all you guys who know that LMB don't thrive and reproduce in small ponds, well under an acre, don't let my bass know that as they have been doing fine for many years in one of my smallest ponds. It is very productive with healthy good sized LMB.

Pat

Patrick, I'm with you. One of the best LMB ponds I've ever had was very small. I believe (and have built ponds accordingly) that several small ponds are much better to manage for fishing than one big one.

However, many people who stock LMB in small ponds end up with stunted fish....because they practice catch and release on all LMB. That is why, I assume, that most States I'm familiar with do not recommend stocking LMB in ponds of an acre or less. By removing all small LMB, I've had excellent results in ponds down to 1/4 acre...but I've also seen many ponds where this was not practiced and all they had were small, stunted LMB.

One thing about ponds is that none are alike, even on the same property, and for every "rule" there are exceptions...and sometimes the exceptions are the most fun.

 

[Tororider]

I would agree that smaller ponds are easier to manage. If something goes wrong it isn't unthinkable to pump the pond out and start over.

With LMB, or any gamefish for that matter, in a smaller pond, ie not lake size, you will need to manage your water if you want big fish. If you don't care the size of your fish just let them do what they will do. Otherwise you need to have a plan for making sure you know what fish are in what "slots" and figure how many need to be in each slot for the pond size. Sounds like fun work to me. Just another excuse to go fishing, hehe it's research.

 

[patrick_g]

The more I found out about all the management things I should be doing the less I was inclined to do any of them. IT was an ignorance is bliss sort of thing. When I didn't know I was supposed to do much I was fat, dumb, and happy. Then I started to find out all the things I was supposed to know about, do, worry about, and so forth I became paralyzed by an overload of input.

So after 7 years and having reworked a pond and built 3 more, I have 12. Only 11 are stocked as I like to "season" them a while before adding fish. My first overt management practice was to stock only fathead minnows and channel cat in one of the ponds I built. Three years later the fish are doing very well and the overflow events brought in a couple more species from another pond of mine upstream.

My second overt management action was late this spring when my wifes BIL and I fished out a large number of green sunfish from the catfish pond. The coons ate well 3 nights running as we just left the sunfish on the bank.

I wanted to switch from small granule sized floating catfish food, which the sunfish can eat, to large size floating dog kibble, which is too big for the sunfish to swallow. However, I also want to deploy a solar powered programmable feeder BUT the larger food is too big for it to dispense. AGGHHHH!!!

So except for a limited application of intervention my management style seems to be mostly benign neglect. So far so good. There was no informed management action for decades prior to my stewardship and things were in terrific shape when I came on duty. Hopefully I will not mess up too bad.

Regarding bank steepness: Did anyone mention erosion? Pond banks in aquaculture ponds for a catfish farm have specific recommendations to discourage erosion from wave action.

Pat

 

[ETD66SS]

I did a little bit of work this morning, cleared the area for the final digging.

Here is what I have left to dig:

Here is a plan view of what's left, the yellow corss-hatching is what I have to hog out:

 

[KentT]

Looking good -- one question before you proceed. Are you sure you want to make that an island around the tree? Though it will obviously look great, you'll have to maintain it manually (string trimmer after using a boat to get over there).

Have you considered making a narrow peninsula instead, that is connected by a "thread" of higher ground to the mainland?

 

[Tororider]

Or you could plant perrenial daylilies or the like and just let them grow. They are pretty much weeds will do well in sun and need no maintenance. Plus they pretty much choke out everything else once they get established. There are options if you don't want grass.

Man that is going to be beautiful when you get it done. I am jealous.

 

[EddieWalker]

I like the daylily idea!!! That's something I've been thinking of for some of my landscaping areas.

I'm worried about that tree and if it survives. They have a bad habbit of dying two years after messing with them. I don't know that type of tree, but another concern is wet roots. It looks like the island is outside the drip line, so that might be ok, but then again....

I have an island on my small pond and if I was to do it over again, I wouldn't have another. They make the water look smaller and it's hard to control what grows on them. I have pines, willows and several dozen types of weeds on mine and it's just 12 by 20 feet. Hardly worth maintaining, not quite an eyesore, but something I shouldn't have left there.

Eddie

 

[ETD66SS]

Before I remove the land bridge, I will be putting in concrete sonotube pilings on the island for a future wooden bridge. The bridge span will be about 60 ft, and all I want to get across there is a push lawnmower, etc...

I plan to have a flower garden & bon fire pit on the island. It will definitely be something I will be maintaining.

If the tree dies, it dies... I'll just cut it down and plant some pines. The stump will be there, but I can just integrate it into the garden if need be.

Proposed bridge location:

Oh, that is a Maple tree on the island, not sure which kind, but the leaves turn yellow in the fall.

 

[EddieWalker]

The bridge sounds like a fun project. It's nice to hear your plans and how you've already thought these things out.

Very cool.

Eddie

 

[meadowlarkponds]

I have an island on my small pond and if I was to do it over again, I wouldn't have another. Eddie

Ditto what Eddie said. What has worked much better for me is to build underwater "islands" in the deepest parts of the pond....areas that rise up to within a couple of feet of the surface. This helps turn your deep water areas(below the thermocline), which are otherwise not used by fish, into fish magnets. It also provides a means to efficiently dispose of some of the excess dirt, rather than hauling it off.

 

[ETD66SS]

Ditto what Eddie said. What has worked much better for me is to build underwater "islands" in the deepest parts of the pond....areas that rise up to within a couple of feet of the surface. This helps turn your deep water areas(below the thermocline), which are otherwise not used by fish, into fish magnets. It also provides a means to efficiently dispose of some of the excess dirt, rather than hauling it off.

Well, the island is for me to enjoy, not the fish, lol.

 

[ETD66SS]

Well the county conservationist said I will most likely have weed problems with a 4:1 slope.

I guess it will just be something I have to maintain...

 

[KentT]

Well the county conservationist said I will most likely have weed problems with a 4:1 slope.

I guess it will just be something I have to maintain...

You may want to try finding a sickle bar mower for your tractor. They have the advantage that they're fully offset from tractor so you can mow 6 or 7 feet (typical smaller sizes) downhill from where you're driving. They also don't chop up things and sling them everywhere -- like into your pond.