Oil & Fuel My Used Oil Report

[Skyco]

Whew John Deere is the only manufacturer I've seen claim a special break in oil, but then they call for a heavier oil after break in than almost anyone else, their 50 weight stuff. As for Honda claiming they use break in oil in their manual- Nope it isn't in any Honda manual I've ever read- make that a 2001 Accord, a 2003 Pilot, a 2007 Accord and countless motorcycles. What Honda does say is wait until the first scheduled oil change. Why? Well it has been theorized by many this is to avoid nuisance complaints to the dealers- IOW one gets used to all the quirks of a new vehicle over a longer period and doesn't hound the dealer with small complaints/questions at an early visit. Original Honda oil does read high in moly, this has been pretty much proven to come from the moly engine assembly lube getting washed into the oil, not a deliberate oil additive. Honda has been asked many times to tell the world why they officially say to wait and they won't do it. Hmmm...maybe they don't want the truth out there

I know for a fact many new car/truck/tractor/boat/you name it/ engine builders run the heck out of a new engine right off the assembly line on a dyno..so probably 90% of the ring seating is already done by the time it is used by a consumer.

I've seen the glittery effect in new engine oil virtually every time I've changed it the first time on a new motor, so it is there. Of course running the used oil through a filter element won't catch it for viewing unless it is a finer filter than the one on the engine but you can see it in the pan when you get the light right.

Nope- no one can show proof an early oil change is a problem in my book. Bottom line- it is your engine do with it as you please- me? I will always do an early oil change on anything with a motor

 

[Marcussen]

I changed my oil at 50 hours the oil was black so I did not see any shiny flakes or particles, but when I changed the transmission UDT at 50 hours (as required by the Kubota schedule) I saw metal particles and shiny specks. Particles big enough to make me think they where machining residue. I did not see anything unusual in the front end fluid.

 

[DiezNutz]

Nope it isn't in any Honda manual I've ever read- make that a 2001 Accord, a 2003 Pilot, a 2007 Accord and countless motorcycles.
Is it possible, just possible, that just because you haven't read it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist? Are you a leading authority on engines and/or oil? I mean, until I pointed out the Deere Break In oil, you'd have us all believe no such thing existed. Check an Element manual, and I believe some of the hybrids. And I know for a fact that VW turbos (including the diesels) ship with a different oil than the synthetic you use for the rest of its life, and they specifically tell you not to change it before 5K. Now maybe it's simply a dino oil and nothing else, but we'll never know. But I can tell you firsthand that changing it too early has caused some folks to have ring seating problems and increased oil consumption.

I've seen the glittery effect in new engine oil virtually every time I've changed it the first time on a new motor, so it is there. Of course running the used oil through a filter element won't catch it for viewing unless it is a finer filter than the one on the engine Of course...paper filter, roughly equivalent to what's in the oil filter, and except for a tiny bit of "glittery effect" and a couple chunks of sealant material too big to go anywhere, it was clean. but you can see it in the pan when you get the light right. Most of that "glittery effect" comes from draining out the pickup tube or was sitting in the bottom of the pan; too big to actually be getting past the filter and into bearings.

Nope- no one can show proof an early oil change is a problem in my book. I think your book has alot of blank pages in it yet...
"Bottom line- it is your engine do with it as you please"- Perhaps that is what you should have said in the first place. I only jumped in because you advised others to do what you do instead of whatever their manual tells them... and that's not always correct. I'll gladly recognize any expert credentials you might have.
me? I will always do an early oil change on anything with a motor As is your prerogative. Yours alone.

 

[TalonDancer]

...The worst thing you can do for a new diesel is to baby it for the first 10hours. The rings need to seat and combustion pressure is what drives them to seat. I would give a medium to heavy load from the start, but a light duty cycle. Grading up hill, then down hill would do that. If you baby the engine, the surface on the cylinder walls may be rubbed off and a "glazed" condition results keeping the rings from seating. ...

Sounds good.

I'll up the pressure on the loud pedal and vary the load more during the first 10-20 hours. Grading up and down the full length of the driveway will be more efficient and produce a smoother job anyway

Thanks again for your advice -- Talon Dancer

 

[john_bud]

Sounds good.

I'll up the pressure on the loud pedal and vary the load more during the first 10-20 hours. Grading up and down the full length of the driveway will be more efficient and produce a smoother job anyway

Thanks again for your advice -- Talon Dancer

No problem.


Remember that advice here is freely given and worth every penny spent! We all have our own unique experiences and have formed our own unique points of view. There is always something new to learn.
jb

 

[DieselPower]

DieselPower, if I may quote you from 3/22/07 "Best Break In for Diesel", in response to Redbug's question about break-in oil:Naturally I have to ask, since I find it hard to believe that so much has changed across the manufacturing landscape in the past 5 months, why the apparent 180?

I have not changed my procedure. I still change early, long before the manuals suggested first service. After I change it I still add EOS to make my own break in oil. The fact that I'm brewing my own break in oil does not mean that the manufacturers are using it. The majority of diesel engines are run at the manufacturing plant on a dyno, drained and shipped to the installers who fill them. A good example would be International trucks. Internationals are all filled with Chevron Delo, doesn't matter if it's a Cat, Cummins, Detroit Diesel or International engine. How do I know, I worked for International and all new trucks had a little sticker under the hood with a picture of a bottle of Delo oil and stated that it was the factory fill.

 

[Skyco]

Nope it isn't in any Honda manual I've ever read- make that a 2001 Accord, a 2003 Pilot, a 2007 Accord and countless motorcycles.
Is it possible, just possible, that just because you haven't read it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist? Are you a leading authority on engines and/or oil? I mean, until I pointed out the Deere Break In oil, you'd have us all believe no such thing existed. Check an Element manual, and I believe some of the hybrids. And I know for a fact that VW turbos (including the diesels) ship with a different oil than the synthetic you use for the rest of its life, and they specifically tell you not to change it before 5K. Now maybe it's simply a dino oil and nothing else, but we'll never know. But I can tell you firsthand that changing it too early has caused some folks to have ring seating problems and increased oil consumption.

I've seen the glittery effect in new engine oil virtually every time I've changed it the first time on a new motor, so it is there. Of course running the used oil through a filter element won't catch it for viewing unless it is a finer filter than the one on the engine Of course...paper filter, roughly equivalent to what's in the oil filter, and except for a tiny bit of "glittery effect" and a couple chunks of sealant material too big to go anywhere, it was clean. but you can see it in the pan when you get the light right. Most of that "glittery effect" comes from draining out the pickup tube or was sitting in the bottom of the pan; too big to actually be getting past the filter and into bearings.

Nope- no one can show proof an early oil change is a problem in my book. I think your book has alot of blank pages in it yet...
"Bottom line- it is your engine do with it as you please"- Perhaps that is what you should have said in the first place. I only jumped in because you advised others to do what you do instead of whatever their manual tells them... and that's not always correct. I'll gladly recognize any expert credentials you might have.
me? I will always do an early oil change on anything with a motor As is your prerogative. Yours alone.

Ok you obviously have a big chip on your shoulder I haven't been on this forum long enough the know if that is your modus operandi.

I do detect a problem with reading comprehension. I did not say it wasn't in any Honda manual- I did say it wasn't in any Honda manual I've ever read. Still a true statement.

You seem hung up on whether I'm an expert while showing nothing that says you are

I was well aware John Deere uses a so called break-in oil, why wouldn't I be, I have over 50 of their engines at work as well as about 100 other diesels, mostly Isuzu, Cummins and Volvo. I said I'd love to hear of any manufacturers that use a so called break-in oil, still true. It is, in fact, a thing of the past for probably 99% of the engines made in developed countries.

I'd love to see proof that anyone ever harmed an engine by changing the oil. I'd bet more likely it was because it was babied during break-in, not the oil being changed early.


So to all the early changers- we think alike But DiezNutz (doesn't that kinda burn by the way?) is welcome to his opinion too, and we'll just have to disagree

 

[RobJ]

There must be more to properly breaking in a tractor than picking the right hour for the engine oil change.

I'll be taking delivery of an L3240 w/ LA724 FEL, BH90 back hoe and BX66 box blade later this week. This will be my first tractor and first diesel. I fully expect to be still using it 20 yrs from now, if I break it in right and maintain it well I also expect to put 50 hours on it in under 4 weeks.* So I'd appreciate advice on the best way to break in the full tractor.

Here is my current "break in plan"...
I've organized my tractor projects list to allow me to begin with lighter/slower tasks and work up to heavier/faster tasks, using all of the moving parts as evenly as possible -- engine, transmission, FEL, back- hoe and 3 point hydraulics. For example, I plan to smooth and crown the flatter (8% grade) sections of the drive way using shallow downhill drags with the box blade and work up to the steeper (30% grade) section dragging uphill full bore by the end of the 50 hours. I'll rotate between box blade, FEL and back hoe tasks at each "load stage". FWIW this task rotation won't be much trouble since I have lots of projects and want to learn the tractor's capabilities as I go anyway.

Unless someone can produce hard evidence that the oil/filter Kubota installs at the factory is different from the stuff I can buy at the dealer...
I'll follow my instincts/experience and change the engine oil and filter somewhere between 10-20 hours (i.e. before I start putting a heavy load on the tractor's engine).

Thanks In Advance - Talon Dancer

* For reference: Our current vehicles avg. well over 20 yrs (68, 77, 88, and 01). I have done all the maintenance and repairs, except the 01 while it was under warranty. I put 30 hours on a rented L39 in 10 days. And it rained EVERY day, including a 3.5 inch downpour while I was spreading road base that kept me grounded for 3 days while the last 20 yds dried out enough to spread.

This might be considered...a little overboard??

When you buy a new car, do you only allow one person in it for the first week, then add the wife, kid #1, kid #2, etc over time. Start out driving 20mph on the freeway, then 30, 40, 50, etc. I doubt it.

When Cat delivers a new D8 does the company that just spent $500k baby it for a while? Or the farmer with a new 4wd 500hp tractor pull a 4 row plow for a while instead of a 16 row?

Buy a lawn mower and only take a half cut at high setting for the first 3 yards?

Nope, just get out there and run it like you need to. You and your tractor will still last 20 years. Probably 99% of the tractors on this site don't see real hard use including mine. Anyone pull a disk for 12 hours straight. I've heard folk say they ran there little cut for a while hard then let it rest. WTH?? Rest from what?

When they are new the main thing you want to is listen a bit and check for leaks. Many of the diesel engines I rebuilt when Iwas a pro were in the rice fields on pumps. I ran them for an hour (if I'm lucky) on the dyna before they left the shop. When they got to the fields they ran at full load for the next 2 weeks. No problem. They were supposed to stop to change the oil every 100 hours...

Good Luck,
Rob

 

[TalonDancer]

This might be considered...a little overboard??

When you buy a new car, do you only allow one person in it for the first week, then add the wife, kid #1, kid #2, etc over time. Start out driving 20mph on the freeway, then 30, 40, 50, etc. I doubt it.....

I only buy a new car/truck roughly once every decade, so I can afford to spend a little quality time with it during break in

My SOP is to spend a couple of sessions out on a country road putting a new vehicle through its paces, in stages of light, moderate and heavy acceleration/braking beginning at the low RPM range (1k-3k) in the lower gears and ending with full bore (to 6k) in all gears the last session. In between sessions I let the car "rest" over night (i.e. cool down to ambient temp) and throughly check fluid levels, leaks, etc. the next AM.

Is this "a little overboard??" - You bet!
Is this fun to do with a new vehicle? - Well...
it beats driving it to get groceries with the wife, kid #1 and kid # 2

Talon Dancer

 

[Skyco]

There actually may be some merit to running an engine hard and letting it "rest"
Many of the "experts" in the field recommend running an engine through heat cycles, running it up to full temp then letting it cool all the way off before doing it again, several times.
Many of the same "experts" also advise working an engine under load then coasting down hills in gear to further seat rings etc...coasting under load down a hill develops different wear patterns than the engine producing power.
Hard to say if much of this makes any difference in the long run- sort of like arguing about the best beer or prettiest woman...there is NO one correct answer.