My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water?

   / My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water? #51  
I remember when I lived in OK there was an article in the local newspaper about why you should NEVER use swimming pool water as an emergency water supply.

I don't remember the details but we had a pool and until I read the article I always thought boiling the pool water would be a good emergency supply. It did say you can use pool water to flush toilets.
 
   / My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water? #52  
We have a water softener. I got a TDS meter mainly trying to decide how to wash cars. My shop has water that is not softened. The TDS was about 600. At the house the softened water was a TDS of about 620. I was about to call the softener company but got on line and did some research and what I describe is normal. The softener doesn’t lower the TDS but removes the bad stuff that makes the water hard. Also to be clear a softener doesn’t add salt to your water, it just uses a salt water solution to backwash the media, then it rinses the saltwater out afterwards.
 
   / My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water?
  • Thread Starter
#54  
It sounds like they expect you to spend a bunch of money to clean up horrible "water" that you pump out of the ground. Maybe that is normal for your area... :unsure:...I don't know. It is normal to us have clean and cold water right at the well. I hope you are able to get that someday.
I wasn't clear on this, sorry. I am looking at TWO big bills coming up.

Firstly all the pipes in my house need replacing. All the copper is rotted almost all the way through. My plumber friend (in another part of the state, no conflict of interest) tells me that I can expect to pay $9-12k for this. It needs to happen regardless of everything we are talking about here. Just want to get this water treatment sorted so I'm not looking at another whole-home replumbing after another 10-20 years.

Secondly, the cost of the water treatment solutions. Looks like about $6-8k. And yeah that's normal for the tash we pump out of the ground around here.
 
   / My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water? #55  
Just now while reading your post, is when I learned that draining the hot water tank is a thing you're supposed to do. I've never done it once in my life. I've never heard anyone else mention that it's something they do either. I did not receive any handbook for being an adult and I'm just making this stuff up as I go along :ROFLMAO:.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious (only obvious now that you mention it) reason for why my water heater is half full of minerals and likely beyond recovery. As soon as I get a new water heater, monthly draining will be on the calendar.
What I did with my HWH when new was I canned the cheapo 1/4 turn drain valve (pita) and replaced it with a full port (stainless steel ball valve) so I can 'blow down' the tank and evacuate any sediment that collects in the bottom easily. The drain valves that water heater manufacturers install on the tanks are basically useless. My intermediate holding tank (Pentair) also has a blow down full port valve on it and both the heater and the intermediate tanks have their drains flex plumbed into our sump crock.
 
   / My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water? #56  
I tested TDS with it in the loop and out of the loop. I don't remember the exact numbers but the difference was not impressive. Maybe it dropped from 1500 to 1100 or something (made up nunbers, for example). It didn't change the smell. It didn't change the feel of the water while showering. There was still black sediment in the water. The only tangible difference between in loop and out of loop was the water pressure. With it in the loop there was way less pressure.

Despite Apparently not doing anything whatsoever, it did still eat salt. So there was chore I was doing, and this expense I was paying every few weeks that after a while I could not convince myself was worth the time or money.

Maybe the softener simply wasn't working and I wrote off a whole technology when I should have actually gotten professional help. I just decided water softeners are dumb without much data.
Well, I wouldn't write off the whole technology. It makes a big difference for a bunch of us. 😉

A water softener takes water coming in with magnesium and calcium, the "bad" ions that make water "hard", possibly a little iron and swaps those particular ions with sodium from the salt that goes into the water softener, so net-net, the TDS stays about the same, but the water is now "soft". What does change is how much crud comes out in a water heater, or as water stains in sinks, tubs, and toilets. Sodium salts wash away easily, unlike calcium or magnesium salts. Soap doesn't scum up as much, etc.

The smell is likely hydrogen sulfide, probably from sulfates in your water. As I wrote above, if you only have small amounts sulfate in your water, there are water softener resins that can remove a little of it, along with the magnesium and calcium. If your well water smells of hydrogen sulfide, you may need an aerator in line to remove it. The good news is that an aerator doesn't need much of any maintenance.

What kind of prefilter? Does it backwash? That is one of the issues I have with the solutions that have been quoted to me by local well guys. I already have a filter. I have it bypassed just like the softener because it fully clogs in under a week. 4-6 days and it's done. $40 to replace and it's a pain. That is not right. That is not the right kind of filter. They tell me based on my water test results that's all I need, or a larger version of it. Well that makes me question the water test results. Can they be different at different times of the year? Is it seasonal? Maybe it's in a permanent state of random flux? IMO the system should be spec'd based on the worst case, and the samples they took, obviously aren't worst case. I do not want to pay for a 1:1 replacement of what I have, just to be equally unsatisfied with it.

Anyways sorry I ranted there but I think that the first filter in the system should be a backwashing filter. AUTO backwashing preferred. Because if I'm replacing the 16" filters every 5 days then I'll be replacing the 36" ones every what... 12 days? And they're telling me "nah they should last months" - respectfully, no way in hell.
With all due respect to "they"...I agree with you that replacing a small disposable filter with a bigger one just gets you a bigger filter charge half as frequently. Filters clog by area, i.e. length, for the same diameter, so if your 10" filters are clogging in 5 days, then a 20" filter is going to clog in ten days, for the same pore size (micron) and type of filter.

Knowing exactly what is in your water would help on the softener resin choice, and the filtration choices.

Yes, our sediment filter looks like a water softener, but it is filled with a very fine mineral that works really well at trapping sediments. Every couple of days, it runs a backwash cycle, so yes, auto backwashing. We have a tank, or tanks, on the house side of the filter that have enough stored clean water to backwash the filter for the whole cycle. That is not absolutely required, so if you don't have it, don't worry.

I'm not a fan of the sediment filters that use disposable media, though I do use them on our RO unit. To your TDS analogy above, unlike a water softener that just swaps "bad" ions for "good" ones, an RO system does lower the overall TDS, typically on the order of a hundred fold, but the exact amount depends on the exact details of what is in your water, which particular kind of membrane you have, and things like what the water temperature is. So, a softened water input of, say 1100TDS might drop 11-20TDS, which should get the taste to something reasonable, again that depends somewhat on the water analysis. Running an RO with unsoftened ("hard") well water would clog / foul the RO membrane permanently pretty quickly.

There are continuously self cleaning filters, but they are like hen's teeth for residential size filters and priced to match in my experience, but that may have changed since I last looked. They are usually used for really sediment laden water l8ke stream or lake water. In between, there are screen type sediment filters with a drain valve that can be put on a timer, and those aren't exactly fully backwashing, but debris does tend to get swept off the screen to the drain. (So, perhaps not perfect, but good enough for many uses, especially if there is a storage tank on the house side that will actually push sediment off the screen during the backwashing. We use something similar on our drip irrigation.)

Since you have plumbing that is failing, that, to me at least, is a "Do not pass Go, do not collect $200" repair now item, as small water leaks have the potential for big bills. After that, I would get an auto backwashing sediment filter of some variety, and then I would see about getting the water softener working. If you are a DIY type, I would start by running a phosphoric acid cleaner through it, and then add a 1/4C of citric acid/bag of softener salt to keep the iron out. Otherwise, I would try to find some good independent water softener dealer, preferably one associated with a well driller, as they tend to have professionals on deck, who will do more than try to sell you their gold plated "Megatherium" model. (Do you know who drilled your well? (Does your neighbor of the trashed lawn?) They may have records, and might be a starting point.)

Finally, your well is probably in a sand aquifer, and should have had a sand screen installed on the pump. Those screens do wear out over time, allowing sand through the pump and up. Besides sand in the pipes, the sand is more or less sand blasting your pump, which will cause it to fail. You have enough other things going on that I would not rush to thinking that was the case, but I might file it away for the future.

Sorry for the long post.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water? #57  
I agree with the folks who have said using the swimming pool is a bad idea.

You have identified a few issues:
*Bacteria
*Sediment
*Corrosive water
*Black Water

I worked for a well driller (on the other side of the country from you) and have seen some of the causes of these issues. However I do not know your geology, or well construction techniques so not everything I state will apply.

have a submersible pump and I have no idea how deep it actually is
You might be able to find it using this website.
the viewer

Bacteria
I had some samples taken, one of them cost $300. I am going to see if the guy has the results yet. He told me TDS was like 1200 and pH was off and there was a lot of sodium and it was positive for bacteria.
Bacteria indicates that you need to most likely disinfect the well. With the type of well you have it is a pain to get the chlorine in. You have to support the pump before you pull the well seal off. The outer casing looks like a 6" with the inner case being a 4". I am not sure why they have a double casing, never seen that on a drilled well with plastic casing, with a driven well and metal casing that was a common construction method.

Sediment
If the well is an open bore (no screen) you will most likely some sediment. A screened well should have less sediment. If you have sediment there is a chance the casing is breached (unlikely if plastic) or as @Valveman (who is a water well professional) stated the well needs cleaned out.
I would first try to develop the well by pumping it hard for hours or days if needed to get the sediment out. Just cycling on and off into a pressure tank is not enough volume to clean out the well, and many wells have never, ever been developed.
We would airlift a well to clean them out by putting an air compressor hose down the well to the bottom and then running air down until the water started flowing out the top. It takes a 150+ cfm compressor to do it. If the well was screened then we would be gentle as you did not want to plug the screen, if open bore then we would shock it by opening the valve suddenly, pump untill it was mostly clean then shut the valve and shock it again. I am not sure if just pumping the well with the submersible would pull enough water out to clean it, especially if the well is deep and the pump is hung shallow, or if its a low flow pump.
If you pump the well I would
1.) shut the water off between the pump and the tank.
2.) hook hose to the brass valve at the top of the well to direct water were you want it.
3.) Open the valve on the top of the well
4.) run a faucet in the house until the well starts pumping.
This prevents you from pumping the junk in the well through the houses water system and filling it with junk.

Corrosive Water

This must be treated, there is no way around fixing this.

Black Water
It was common to see black water on wells with a bad manganese issue. When air lifting it looked like we were pumping an oilwell and smell metallic. Acidic water could pull the manganese out of the formation. Also when manganese precipitates out of the water it often looks like little black sand pieces. Iron and Manganese bacteria will clog a filter almost instantly. Sanitizing the well is the only way to get rid of the bacteria.

My recommendation is:
Don't use the pool.
Treat the water for what the tests show. Have lots of treatment folks come out and give advise. Lean heavily on your plumber friend for advise on who is the best treatment option.

Pulling the well and having it cleaned out and sanitized might be a good option.
 
   / My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water? #58  
Your swimming pool is giving you a clue. Your water needs to be able to settle and could probably benefit from aerating. Years ago I had a friend whose house was on a well. Their tap water was quite good and I commented about this. I was shown a big water tank where the water settled and they had an air pump that blew air through the water, kinda like a bubbler in an aquarium. Anyway, they needed this tank and the aerating to get rid of bad smells and to get rid of iron. The tank was drained periodically, I don't know how often. But they just had a big ball valve that they opened now and then to get rid of the sediment. It was all low tech and the system had been in use for decades. I was told by my friend that the water straight out of the well had that sulfur smell and was full of "dirt", whatever that was. It all settled to the bottom of the tank and was drained off. Maybe you could divert some of the water that goes from your sand filter to the pool to a tank that lets the water offgas and lets any solids settle so they can be drained off. I do know that some dissolved solids can be oxidized and will then settle out of water that is aerated. I dunno about your particular situation but your swimming pool seems to be doing OK and maybe you need to copy what it is doing for your house water.
Eric
 
   / My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water? #59  
@Sportsman762 Great post! Lots of great suggestions and data. Thanks!

When I hear black sediment, I do worry about manganese, more so if there are purple stains in sinks. We looked at a property once like that. The heartbreaker was that the father had died two months earlier, and the son a month later of what sounded like health issues that might have been worse with manganese. Yes, the well water had a lot of manganese in it. No, we did not purchase the property.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water? #60  
Also to be clear a softener doesn’t add salt to your water, it just uses a salt water solution to backwash the media, then it rinses the saltwater out afterwards.
Actually, they do add salt. We rented a cabin for interim living between forest fire home loss and relocating to new home. The was a notice in the manual similar to this:
'Water softeners add sodium to drinking water, which can be a concern for individuals on a low-sodium diet, particularly those with high blood pressure. However, for most healthy individuals, the sodium levels in softened water are generally considered safe.'
There are also studies, for what they're worth, that show long term drinking sodium treated water can lead to hypertension.
I can taste low amounts of salt in food, and it definitely adds salt. Not like a snorkel full while Abalone diving, but it was obvious to me.
Patrick
 

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