Nasty Little Wood Ticks

[Redman59]

Doc,
Thanks for the heads up on the irritant methods. I'll revise my procedures. I have never seen the device that you showed in your post. Anybody know if they are available widely in places like Walmart, or should I look in a phaarmacy?

Since I will bringing my Royal Ranger boys to the farm, and I am ussually the leader who gets to teach First Aid, this is a really timely discussion with camping season and tick season fixin to hit big.

Thanks again Doc,
Redman

 

[Mark_in_NH]

patrickg,
Where have you found to be the best place to buy this said
Permethrin ??

 

[rmorgan]

Billboe and Doc--

Thanks to both of you for good information. The Ohio State site is almost too informative, but it's certainly worth knowing that the method we've always used to pull ticks (careful work with tweezers . . . stinks. As to finding the remover, www.tickedoff.com has a list of stores state-by-state.

Thanks again.

 

[patrickg]

Billboe. Yeah, that is one of the many sites I gleaned for info last year. Luckily the little buggers don't just bite in as soon as they find a host. They usually wander around a while usually upward and virtually never bite in the first few minutes. The permethrin clothing treatment will get rid of them before that. If you are unprotected (not practicing safe, outdooring) and one does attach, the transmittal of disease vectors is usually not a problem for several minutes so if you get them off without squeezing them or making them sick (they can regurgitate their gut contents into you and their gut contents is where they harbor the disease vectors so remove them don't hurt them).

Ideally, you will not handle the tick with your bare hands. Place it in a container with a piece of damp paper towl and place it in the refrigerator. If the bite site shows symptoms of lyme disease or you get any symptoms of tick carried disease you can produce the tick for verification of what it carries.

The best looking tick removal tool I have seen is made in Sweeden and looks like it will work better than either of the types I bought. Unfortunately it is not imported into the USA (yet) and the best bet for geting it is a shop in England that gets them from Sweeden (assuming you want to deal in English). As of a few weeks ago they haven't got US representation. I made a run at the principal but they are in negotiation with a US firm already.

***********
Thank you for your intrest.
I negotiate about US with a' medical copany
but Ihave yuor mailing address
so I vill come back to you
Best regards
Börje
************

Wish my Sweedish was 10% as good as his English.

It is amazing how many sites there are out there dealing with ticks/mosquitos tat still promulgate questionable information that is not validated by any reputable source. One I found is still touting Avon SkinSoSoft which works poorly indeed compared to REAL repellants. These myths like the Avon product, eat garlic, put vasoline on ticks and chiggers etc., right up there with bleeding people to rid them of evil night vapours.

Buying two kinds of removers was a "that's nice dear, right away dear" keep the peace investment. With our treated clothes it is most unlikely we will have a chance to use one of the appliances. Did have a brief moment of interest last week but at 85 my mom's sight is not what it once was and it turned out to be a weed seed (beggar's lice, I think). I had to use a hand lense to ID, it would have fooled many without magnification.


Couple other things. Deer tick nymphs typically get on mice (White Foot and the like) but will get on you at ankle height from grass and weeds. After they become adults they prefer to wait for a meal in taller weeds and bushes more likely waist height. These are documented tendencies but not a rigid code.

Unfortunately tick carried disease is on the rise and we can no longer permit ourselves to think of them as a minor bother on the scalle of poison ivey or ants and flies at a picnic. They carry some realy nasty stuff that can really make a dent in your happiness for the rest of your life.

Be safe out there,

Patrick

 

[patrickg]

Mark, I don't know that I know the BEST place to get permethrin but the little private one man owned feed store down the road near a town of about 200 people usually stocks 8oz containers of 10% for $9.95. He ordinarily doesn't keep larger containers in stock but ordered me a gallon for just under $50 and got it in a few days. I paid when I picked it up, trusting kinda guy. Last year I was in a rush as the bugs were bugin' us big time and bought from the cheapest of the first three sources I could find on the net. Silly me, I was happy to pay $26 for an 8 oz bottle of 13.%.

I'm sure you could find it at a farm/ranch supply that sells pesticides and the like. Their won't be any instructions on how to treat clothes on the back of the bottle. Likely there will be a warning that use not in accordance with the label is a violation of Federal law or some such. OK, so don't drink it. Mine has petroleum distillate in it and smells bad for the first few hours of drying time. Hang out in sun and air to dry. Do not put in a dryer as the petroleum distilate could be an explosion hazzard.

There are sites you can find (don't recall the URL's off the top of my head) that detail the DoD wicking method of permethrin treatment for clothes. The troops used to do this a lot. They had to go where bighting bugs were not just a nuisance but were life threatening (like it is getting here, now) If yo are concerned with the heallth and safety aspects surf the center for disease control and yo can find several state sites (NJ included) that discuss permethrin. It has low toxicity and an excellent safety record. You can confirm this as I did by extensive web search and reading. I am convinced the benefits far outweigh the risk. Of course DEET is not as safe but can be effective. the micro-encapsulated time release cream form of DEET repellant used on the exposed skin in conjunction with permethrin treated clothing gives virtually 100% mosquito protection with reduced DEET absorption. I think it is safe enough and waranted with the increased spread of the Nile Virus.

One annecdotal data point was sort of a "marginal note" from the researchers who were testing permethrin treated fatigues in the everglades. It seems thay had to search for new test sites within the 'glades because the effect of several sets of fatigues in a small area drove out the mosquitos and they couldn't get a good test.

The military now buys BDU (battle dress uniforms, cammies/fatigues) pre-treated. since the treatment remains effective through 52 weekly washings in hot detergent they think the clothes will be worn out by the rigors of the field before the treatment wears out. The benefit is that the troops don't have a chance to mess up the process and BDU's are good to go fresh out of the plastic bag at point of issue and you don't end up afield with untreated clothes and be a bug magnet.

Wally World sells permethrin spray, Cutter labs brand. Toooooooo expensive, I use only for guests that aren't around more than just a day or overnight.

If for some reason you can't get permethrin at a decent price, let me know and I'll help you get some. How much could it cost to UPS a half pint or a gallon?

I was interested in the buisness oportunity of repackaging and labeling bulk permethrin into 8 or 16 oz containers, writing a "everything you need to know about ticks but were to grossed out to ask" manual, and selling it along with tick removal appliances B_U_T I took a look at the Federal rules regarding repackaging etc. The required facility inspections and on and on and it just isn't worth it to me. Now If I hadn't moved out of San Diego I could have done it across the border in a Maquilladora (SP?) and shipped to the US for distribution. Hopefully someone will do something like that and make life easy for everyone interested in protecting themselves and their loved ones from tick and mosquito born disease which is on the rise nationwide.

OK you asked what time it was and I gave a lecture on how to build a watch. Sorry. Hope there is something here of use to you or others. Ticks really creep me out and I get sort of on a personal jihad against the little rascals.

Patrick

 

[njrqs]

All the ones on our dog just come out clean if you pull them. I know there is a trick to some of them, but so far I have had 100% success just yanking them out !

Cheers

 

[Carl_NH]

Mark and Patrick,

We have ticks and lots of mosquitos here in NH, been using Permethrin 13.3% made by Prentox called Perm-X 1E for two yrs - from Agway $45 per 32 oz mixed 2 ounces per gal in the Stihl 400 fogger applicator (makes 3.5 gal). The Sthil machine is $ 600 but is a great backpack blower to boot.

I apply every two weeks to about 2 acres to control mosquitos as well ticks. Do not use near ponds with fish per the instructions.

We used to have our property sprayed by the local co - Dragon Mosquito - $80 / application, and decided if they can do it so can I. They also spray for the local towns the same mixture and setup.

By the way Permethrin is a byproduct of a flower - the Chrysanthenum (sp).

Patrick, let me know where I can get a gal of 10% conc. for $50.

Carl

 

[smilingreen]

Mark,
Since no one has suggested a yard treatment, I guess I will. You can purhase 25% diazinon concentrate liquid and apply it to your yard. I used to be able to get the full concentrate in a gallon, but it has become a controlled chemical, and you need a commercial spray card to get it now. I used to be able to treat my 1 acre yard for two seasons with a gallon costing about $40.00, now I have to pay $85.00 for 6 quarts of 25% concentrate, which does my lawn once. Go figure. I have seen a few ticks here in TN, not too may yet. I try staying out of the long grass and away from the cedar trees.

 

[patrickg]

Carl, Sure thing buddy, no secret about my source for Permethrin. I bought my Permethrin at Rooker's feed store near Wanette, OK. It is owner operated little place with a real hard time getting help. No one wants to work. They sell the 8oz of 10% for $9.95. Last year the best price I could find on the internet was the same as the best internet price I found this year for 8 oz, $26 for 13.3%. Adjusting for difference in concentration I paid the equivalent of about$13 or half the internet vendors price and NO SHIPPING OR TAX. Needless to say I bought a bottle at Rooker's then asked him to get me a gallon bottle if there was a decent price break in the larger quantities. Neither of us knew what it would cost. It came in a few days later, he marked it $49.95 (or thereabouts) and I bought it. He isn't set up for mail order. I could ask him for the name of the distributor but that doesn't feel totally kosher. Oh well, all he can say is buzz off. I'll check the bottle for contact info. If successful you could ask them for the nearest source to you.

HMMMMM I thought I was told that Permethrin was a synthesized version of the pyrocanthus(SP?) is that a chrysanthemum (let's just call 'em mums) extract, a powerful natural insecticide. This according to the internet research I did last year(so much for my memory). They say the first two things to go as you age are your memory and...... I forgot the other one.

If we can't find you a source convenient to you AND you could take a larger quantity I could put a few gallon jugs in a sturdy cardboard box with cardboard seperators and ship by whatever means is practical, like UPS or FEDEX if they take chemicals from private parties. Several reasons for wanting to send multiple gallons if it is cool with UPS or whoever. More ecconomical regarding cost per gallon and it will last you a good long time (it stores well) so we don't have to do it as often.

I'll have a look at the bottle and talk to Rodney (Mr. Rooker) and see what looks likek the way to proceed.

Patrick

P.S. I got dropped off my ISP by incomming call, hope this isn't a dupe.

 

[dmccarty]

I'm going to ditto Patrick and DocHeb big time but this stuff needs to be
repeated. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Get the right kind of tick puller. The match, tweezer, grab method increases
the risk of getting the tick born illnesses.

Permethrin WORKS. Get it. Treat your clothes.

I got my tick puller and Permthrin from REI. They have a website at
http:// [url]www.rei.com [/url] I have a local store so I don't have to use
the website. The Tick puller is a cheap piece of tin, roughly shaped
like a pear with a notch cut out of the thin end. Just slip the notch
on the tick and pull and they pop right out. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

We had a thread on this about this time last year. Funny how that
works. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I went and treated a pair of pants in March of 2001. This summer,about
August I think, I had two pods/nests of chiggers hit the same leg at around
my knee. Hundreds of them. I was watching two bucks at the time so
I decided to see what would happen with the chiggers as they moved around. [smiles]
To make a long story somewhat short, the chiggers moved pretty fast at first
but by the time they got to the mid part of my thigh, maybe five minutes,
they where moving very slowing or had stopped. A few more minutes and
almost all the chiggers had stopped moving. Some had started to fall of my
leg. The bucks had moved off so I just swept the chiggers off my leg,
usually very tough to do, and went back to work.

I had very few ticks last year because of the Permethrin. The ones that
did manage to get me had to get on my hand or my shirt and work their
way up.

I had new neighbors move in a few weeks back. I went down to welcome
them. One of my ToDos with them was to warn them of the ticks and
chiggers. Very nice couple from the city. I told them but they did not
seem to believe/understand. The husband and I went for a walk to look
at the lot lines. I warned him first! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif We had to stop twice on
the way out and twice on the way back to knock the dozens of ticks off
his legs. He was wearing shorts. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif I had one or two ticks on my
legs but they twern't moving fast. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif We walked about 500 feet
out and 500 feet back on the same path.....

I think he is now a believer. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Permethrin WORKS. Period.

Follow Patrick's directions. I used a spray from REI that is not at the
same concentration as Patrick's supplier. I used two ounces of Permethrin
and 14 of water in a big zip lock bag. Works just fine. I did look at the
big box hardware stores, Wally World, a farm supply store and ACE to
find the Permethrin but I did not see any.

Hope this helps....
Dan McCarty