Need Advice have 5 acres (Looking for first tractor)

[LBrown59]

Well it's good to have a heathy debate. I could go with a BX2350/BX24 (My neighbor has a BX2350 - does everthing he asks it to do on his 5 acres).Yea, I know 25 - 30 hp may be over kill but I'm looking at a tractor that has to last me a long time! Plus I love HP!Question: Riddler? What do you mean by top (I understand tilt)?Thanks!VRF201(Roy)

Some times 2 or more smaller tractors will serve you better than 1 giant over powered tractor.In my case it's 2 BX1500s and a BX 23.No way would I trade my set up for one 90 HP Brute of a tractor.

 

[Soundguy]

If you construe MR's comment to say that any tractor that 'is right for you' is not too big.. then it renders the comment itself completely MOOT. That's like saying:

" Get what you want as long as it is not too big as they are wastefull, but they are never to big if that is what you want"

See the logical falacy in that argument? The first part sets a condition that is nullified completely by the last part.

I took MR's comment to -imply- that you should purchase a reasonable sized tractor to handle the work, based on work or plot size.

The kicker is, as you point out.. each and every single case will be governed by so many variables and circumstances, that it makes a statement like 'don't get a big wastefull tractor if a smaller one will do the work'.. very hard to apply.

Sure.. a 30hp tractor will mow my place JUST FINE.. I just can't devote that many seat hours to it.

As for your comment about pot of $$.. please... I see what many here post when they buy tractors... my "Binford 3X Belchfire 500 Tim Taylor signature model " as you refer to it cost less than many people's new CUT. I bought mine about 18 mo used, still under warranty, with a crumpled ( but straightened.. kinda ) left fender and a dented canopy.. I got about 10K off of what it sold for new... The dealer I bought it from sold it new, and the owenr came in and traded it back in on a tc48d as the 7610-s was too big for his orchard and he kept hitting tree limbs... That owner took a huge depreciation hit ( thanks! ) and i got a sweet deal on a decent sized blue tractor. T sweeten it even more, I traded in my 1920 that I had just bought from that dealer 3 years before.. I took excelent care of that machine. He gave me 500$ LESS than i paid for it originally.. IE.. I 'rented' that tractor for 167$ per year for those 3 years. With that trade applied And the depreciation discount off original sales.. I got rid of a 6.5 hour mowing job and got into a 1.75-2hr mowing job. Got my batwing for a song too.. just needed a month of TLC and sweat equity.

My original intent is that it is not for us to judge what other people do with their money or items as a 'waste' or not. It's simply not our call. Unless they are doing something negative that impacts us ( pouring oil out on the ground, etc. ) Who cares if the neighbor wants to ( 120$ )pushmow, (1000$ )riderlawnmow or (3500$ ) ZTR mow his 1/4 ac lot. Good for him... I know guys that have that overkill ZTR for a 1/4 or 1/3 ac lot... That's about as sill as me using a 95 hp tractor on my 13ac.. and having another 70hp tractor setting as a backup.. but I don't blame the guy.. he goes to work.. it's his money.. i hope he enjoys it.

Soundguy

Wastefull? Wow.. that's a pretty high tower you are on judging all of us!

Sound Guy, you quoted this--> Originally Posted by MossRoad
I tend to agree with IslandTractor on this. Buying a huge tractor just because you can when a smaller one will do just fine seems wastefull.

Let me stress this part -->"{...when a smaller one will do just fine..."

Lets not pass that by so fast as to miss the point. If the smallest tractor in your circumstances that would "do just fine" was the Binford 3X Belchfire 500 Tim Taylor signature model then you did exactly what MossRoad suggested. You got the least tractor that meets your requirements.

Your requirements are, well, your requirements. Not everyone has your unique set of requirements and tradeoffs and pots of $. Now it would seem that a reasonable question to ask you would be if you had 5 acres that was not in BAD shape and mostly needed some weed/brush control and mowing of lawn type grass would you have selected the same 3X tractor or perhaps a little less? Your answer is in no way guidance for the newby with 5 acres unless he has similar requirements to yours which he clearly doesn't due to the variation in lot sizes.

You said, "For me it was the right choice, based on my circumstances." That in no way is in conflict with MossRoad's comment. I for one just don't get the tall tower thing. You must be reading something into his post that I don't see.

You said, "I'm sure.. i could cut it with a push lawnmower and just have never stopped mowing... you know.. start back at the front at the end of the month when i finished the back.. but hey.. that's just me...."

Most of us would agree that the push mower with you behind it is undersized, at least a little and does not meet MossRoads criterion of doing just fine.

I have yet to see a list of requirements posted by the newby so I'm not sure what criteria are being used to determine his needs beyond a PROJECTION OF OUR OWN INDIVIDUAL CIRCUMSTANCES cloaked as advice, meant to fit his circumstances. Since we don't know his circumstances how do we give specific advice? Well, we can't actually which is why I keep beating the drum for some validated requirements. But that is just me with my tainted warped sense of how to proceed based on years of "contamination" by structured engineering approaches and the scientific method. I submit that on a good day I can surpass the results achieved by the average user of the famed OUIJA board.

Pat

 

[Soundguy]

Soundguy - I do believe patrick g would like all the credit for calling out the wastrels.

I believe you are correct.. That's probably why he's climbing all over me for calling the point out. He probably feels left out.!

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

95 horsepower on 13.1 acres. Wow. Do you have those roundtable thingies like they use on railroad trains to turn around or does your tractor just have super steer ?

?? No super steer.. however it's easier to turn my fords and batwing around than it is to turn my pickup truck and 16' trailer around. Which by the way... My truck / trailer is actually longer than the tractor and mower. i found that out the hard way as when i fenced off one of my paddocks, I made a dual gate system so i coul pull the mower in, close the outside gate, then pull in so as to keep the cows in... When i was fencing.. i merely measured my tractor and mower and added a few feet, and figured that would cover the dodge and trailer... nope.. missed it by a whole stinking 2' Had to move the gate post and 'patch' in a piece of fence.. coulda kicked myself over that one... I about ran out of 'arm' that day after doing all those post holes and then having to redo the hinge post and latch post at the very end of the day... oh well.. measure once.. cut twice!

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Hmm... methinks you did not read the entire thread. My first post to this thread was #5, back on page 1.. here's what it said:

mid 20's to 30 is a decent range.

Get a 4' or 5' brush cutter to go along with that tractor. Decide on how long you want certain tasks to take, and size your tractor / implements from there.

Are you looking to get a loader?

Soundguy

I never 'advised' getting a tractor to do 105ac. In fact.. my comment about the larger tractor was not posted untill someone else posted that have a bigger tractor was wastefull if a smaller one would work... The comment was not advice to buy a larger tractor.. but that larger tractors are ok.. if you want them

Telling a newbie with 5 acres to buy a tractor that would handle 105 acres with out any problems is in my opinion not giving the guy good advice. .

, most of us do not have the kind of disposable income that warrants that kind of extravagance.

As I pointed out previously.. I probably spent less$$ on my new-ish 2wd gear tranny, spartan dash, tranny straddlin OP platform, than may others buying a CUT with HST, a flat deck OP platform, and loads of gauges and bells/whistles/chrome.

My serious advice to the newbie is to go and rent a tractor from a rental place. I am sure that he can probably find one in the 20 to 25 horse bracket to rent. Spend 8 hours on it and see what you like and dont like about it. Rent the implements to do one or two of the jobs you think you need a tractor for. After 8 hours you can have an inkling of whether it is too big, too small, or just right. In my area you can rent a tractor like that for around 175.00 with the rotary mower and the trailer to haul it on. If you can get that kind of rental rate it is a cheap price to pay for some first hand information when you are talking about spending thousands of dollars.

My next message on this thread was on page 2, and again.. said similar... which was to make sure he 'sat' on alot of seats to try out different models.. Sound familiar?

To me justification for buying anything is that I want it and I can afford it. That should be enough justification.

Thankyou.. exactly my point.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

From up here on my high tower I can see pretty clearly.

You collect and restore tractors and are not the typical example of a homeowner with 5 acres to tend to and one tractor to do it with as the original poster seems to be.

Can't argue there.

Soundguy

 

[patrick_g]

SoundGuy, I don't think I said anything about what someone wanted in my discussion, I think I talked about what they need. I screw up enough on my own without being misquoted. If the above is in variance with fact, then believe what I said here to be my true intent.

I don't care what you "want." If you buy significantly more than you need it is wasteful regarding the context of what you need to do the work. It is not a crime nor a misdemeanor and you can justify it or rationalize it as fun, "but I got a bargain", "I need it to stroke my ego", or any number of reasons. It is OK with me.

I used to drive a 165 MPH capable sports car. Did I need all that speed capability. Did I really NEED whip lash inducing acceleration at speeds approaching 100MPH. OF course not. I justified/rationalized that car with FUN and WANT, not need.

You may someday have to explain your actions to the "GREEN POLICE" (I'm past the statute of limitations) and suffer being picketed by climate change activists but luckily Al Gore hasn't stirred the mob up that much, yet.

I don't think you and I are in disagreement with your tractor choice (and I didn't get that impression from MossRoad either) although we may have a few areas in which we are not in agreement in what constitutes proper advice for Roy.

Roy on the other hand is sending mixed messages, at best. He delineates a budget and when GOOD advice suggests something less expensive he replies with "BUT I LIKE MORE POWER" comments. Yet another disciple of Tim Taylor.

Roy, about that requirements list? How can you possibly hope to get a tractor close to your needs, or wants for that matter, if you don't know what you want it to be able to do?

It has been suggested that I enroll in one of the 12 step programs to break my adherence to the Tim Taylor school of sizing engines etc.

Sound Guy, my intent is not to insist my way is right and yours is wrong. I tried to encourage Roy to not waste $ on HP and tractor size he doesn't NEED. Now that I see that is what he WANTS and NEEDS don't enter into it I am through until or unless Roy can state for us his requirements in a prioritized list so we can offer REAL help in an orderly fashion.

I know I set myself up as a target and I don't fault you for taking a shot but please don't misquote me or put words in my mouth, I am fully capable of messing up without assistance.

... and oh by the way, Roy, if you are reading this... The top lift on "standard tractors is a mechanically adjusted turn buckle arrangement or similar. You have to get off the tractor, make a little adjustment, try it out, refine it tryu it out , REPEAT till you get it right. This assumes a static problem which is NOT THE CASE in many instances. So you just have to suffer to have it wrong much of the time i a varying terrain situation. Hydraulic top lift replaces the mechanical adjustment and allows you to make fingertip adjustments without stopping so you can touch it up dynamically as you need. I use it to elevate my brush hog so I can back over trees up to 4-5 inches in diameter and slowly lower the cutter, eating the tree down to the ground. I use it to give me much finer control dribbling dirt or gravel out the back of the box blade, way finer control that the lower arms.

Hydraulic tilt lets you replace the fixed (not adjustable side with the manual adjustment (turn buckle thingy or equivalent) and replace the manually adjustable one with the hydraulic one. Between the two you get amazing control of the box blade (I can tilt mine way up and dig a road side ditch) or you can tilt the brush hog when driving down the side of a driveway or edge of a pond dam or any time it is handy. It gives you finger tip control of the tilt of the 3PH.

OK, this is where traditionally a bunch of guys line up, with sour grapes in hand, to say they and their ancestors have tractored for centuries, never had any hydraulics at all and never missed nor needed them. I think you are too smart to think finger tip hydraulic adjustment is a bad idea. It isn't just convenience, it is practicality. In theory you can move a sand pile one grain at a time but in practice it is not practical. In theory you could maybe drive a few feet, get down make an adjustment, drive another few feet (lather rinse repeat) but you (and no one else in their right mind) will do that so they suffer to do the best they can with the primitive adjust ability of the manual control.

Check with a professional landscaper and see what they say about hydraulic adjustments vs manaul ones. If you intend to use your tractor for landscaping(we still don't know what you want to ws=do wiltlh the tractor, do you?) and related jobs you will be much happier with hydraulic top and tilt than "MORE POWER!) but if you want to spend more then get the hydraulic adjustments AND THEN all the power your budget, wife, or sanity, will allow.

Oh and by the way... as in many other fields of endeavor it is not just the gun but the gunner that makes the most difference. I don't care how many pounds of artist stuff you buy, if you have no artistic talent you will not crank out a masterpiece no matter how expensive your canvas, easel, or brush.

Pat

 

[IslandTractor]

What do you mean by top (I understand tilt)?

A hydraulic toplink is just what it sounds like...a replacement for the standard mechanical/screw type toplink. That is the "top" in top and tilt.

 

[Riddler]

Roy, indeed, just as IslandTractor describes. By substituting hydraulic cylinders for the top link and one bottom link of the three point hitch, you can adjust a box scraper from your tractor seat to grade at angles that don't necessarily correspond to the rolling angle of the tractor. That said, it appears that I was confused about what you were referencing in your earlier post, so please ignore my remark (unless you plan to develop roads or otherwise do lots of grading with your tractor).

Your lastest post mentions the BX series. Great subcompact machines for sure. Depending on the tasks you anticipate, a subcompact could be your best fit. As other posts have suggested, smaller/lighter tractors are generally more fuel efficient, easier to store, easier to transport, easier to negotiate tight places, etc.

Your latest post also re-emphasizes HP. If you decide that you want a subcompact with a little more HP, rather than a larger class CUT that has the same (or even a little less HP), but the capability to do more and/or faster work, than do not let anyone (including me) influence your thinking one bit.

On the other hand, if you really want to understand the roles that size/weight and HP play in getting work done, just spend a little time studying the implements designed for a subcompact v. a mid-frame compact v. a large frame compact. You will see obvious differences in potential work productivity between different class CUTs because of the size of the attachements and implements that they operate. At the same time, you will notice that the HP ratings for lowest HP models in the mid-frame class are nearly the same as the highest HP models in the subcompact class.

What does that all mean?? You can spend your money to increase HP in a subcompact, but that still won't allow you run (at least safely and efficiently) implements designed for use only on a mid-frame. Of course, if you have no need or interest in using larger implements, and all of the other advantages (discussed above) of a smaller, lighter tractor make more sense in your situation, then a subcompact is the best CLASS of tractor for you.

To sum it up, the BX and TC tractors that you mention in a previous post represent very different tractors in terms of the quantum and rate of work that they can potentially perform. That difference has much more to do with the size and weight of the two classes of tractors than it does with the fact that the TC29 has 4 more gross HP (i.e, less than 10% more) than the BX2050.

When it comes to how quickly and efficiently you can get work done with a tractor, HP is neither the only, nor (I would argue) the most significant, factor to consider. When it comes to how YOU spend YOUR money, however, what gives you the greatest satisfaction over time is the ONLY factor that counts.

 

[davitk]

While I can't personally see the need for a permanent tractor for 5 acres (rent one, clear the brush, level the worst obstructions and mow with the 54 inch unit) tractors are fun and if it blows your skirt up and have the $ go for it.

Pat

I do believe it is time for a survey. I vote if 20% or more members own 10 acres or less and have a permanent tractor, we close TBN due to Pat's personal opinions.