Need Advice on Ag-tractor Backhoe-based Stump Removal

MarkV · Oct 16, 2006

I pretty much do it like everyone else has mentioned. You just have to keep at it. One word of caution that I don’t think has been mentioned though. When digging a tight hole around a stump you will find yourself with the bucket wedged down between the stump and the side of the hole at some point. It is natural to use the bucket curl to try and pop the stump loose in this position. With smaller backhoes I have seen this maneuver bend the rod on the bucket hydraulic cylinder so be careful.

MarkV

Dougster · Oct 16, 2006

willfick said:
I've dug more than one that by the time I had it loose I had to chain to the stump and pull it over to the edge of the hole to get it out.

Ha!!!

I had to laugh out loud picturing this! As two of my largest trees are fairly close together, I can now envision having to dig one very large hole around both!

willfick said:
The part about being able to tell ahead of time how big a job one will be; it's guesstiment work. You kinda get to where you can know something by what species, how big, other nearby stumps, soil, etc., but I still always start too close in.

It's probably just human nature to be optimistic and to try to limit lawn damage as much as possible. I plead guilty to that. It will matter less as I go farther back into the totally undeveloped area. Neighbors be d#%$ed, I will make as much noise and mess as I need to back there!

Dougster

jeffinsgf · Oct 16, 2006

Well, this dead horse has been whipped quite a bit, but I haven't had my chance yet.

The only thing I can add to the "keep at it" advise is that on certain larger stumps, you may find it helpful to dig yourself one or two access lanes into the bottom of the excavation. I took out a 24" sycamore where that would have been a good idea. I kept trying to avoid the issue, but I was working on top of spoils piles and reaching far enough with the hoe that I lost some of my mechanical advantage. Even if it means a larger repair, if you have to go over 4 feet deep, it might be a good idea to get your machine down lower as your dig goes deeper. Oh, and the advice about keeping your spoils as far from your work as possible -- I'll second that one, too.

One more. If any of the trees are in the 6-8 inch range, and they're not down yet, I highly recommend not cutting them. I took our several large cedars by limbing them up as high as I could, digging out around the base like has been discussed here, and then pushing them over. I had an equal number that I had already cut, and the digs had to go much, much deeper.

Okay, really, last comment. Re: burying the stump. Depending on species, you may be mistaken that you won't be around when the sink hole develops. I buried the cedar stumps, but I would not bury a pine, fir, oak, walnut, sycamore, or gum stump in an area where I wanted a yard. The sink hole could develop in just a couple years, depending on the drainage characteristics of the soil.

Haoleguy · Oct 16, 2006

Dougster - Patience, patience, patience! You might have to readjust your expectations on speed....I have to all the time. Eddie's got it right on technique. It will be a mess to start but when finished fill in the hole and compact slightly. I had recently done two different 2 headed maple root balls of approximately the same size. Completion rates were 1hr with 12K lb excavator and 4hr with my JD5325-BH49 combo. For me the maples have been the most difficult. We await your results.....Cheers

Dougster · Oct 16, 2006

jeffinsgf said:
Well, this dead horse has been whipped quite a bit, but I haven't had my chance yet.

The only thing I can add to the "keep at it" advise is that on certain larger stumps, you may find it helpful to dig yourself one or two access lanes into the bottom of the excavation. I took out a 24" sycamore where that would have been a good idea. I kept trying to avoid the issue, but I was working on top of spoils piles and reaching far enough with the hoe that I lost some of my mechanical advantage. Even if it means a larger repair, if you have to go over 4 feet deep, it might be a good idea to get your machine down lower as your dig goes deeper. Oh, and the advice about keeping your spoils as far from your work as possible -- I'll second that one, too.

One more. If any of the trees are in the 6-8 inch range, and they're not down yet, I highly recommend not cutting them. I took our several large cedars by limbing them up as high as I could, digging out around the base like has been discussed here, and then pushing them over. I had an equal number that I had already cut, and the digs had to go much, much deeper.

Okay, really, last comment. Re: burying the stump. Depending on species, you may be mistaken that you won't be around when the sink hole develops. I buried the cedar stumps, but I would not bury a pine, fir, oak, walnut, sycamore, or gum stump in an area where I wanted a yard. The sink hole could develop in just a couple years, depending on the drainage characteristics of the soil.

Yeah, the horse has been whipped good!

But I need some of these tips drilled deep... Deep... DEEP into my aging brain!

Believe me when I say that I truly appreciate this entire conversation!

None of my stumps are near 24" in diameter (Thank Gawd!) except for maybe some of those multiple (triple) trunk oak trees. Haven't done one of those yet. Most of them big triple deals will be staying anyway... at least for now... but let me say this:

I hear you all talking about gigantic holes with remote spoils piles and access roads down into the holes and chains and ladders and track hoes, etc... and I can only shutter!

That "go big" approach is fine for way out back, but I gotta tell you that you are scaring the heck out of me in terms of the mess my front and side yards are going to be in by the time Thanksgiving rolls around! The significant other is not going to be a very happy camper unless I make some reasonable effort to contain... not just restore... the "collateral damage."

How's about I re-pose my question in this way if anyone wishes to tackle it: In sensitive, landscaped areas of a nice residential neighborhood front yard... are there any techniques that I can use that will tend to limit collateral damage but still get the stump out in some reasonable time? Or is that technique what they call "stump grinding"?

I truly do get the message that bigger is better... honest I do... but you must have run into this issue once or twice before with a neighbor or your grandmother... so what approach have you folks taken in instances where bigger was not necessarily better?

Dougster

Raddad · Oct 16, 2006

After reading all these posts I'm glad I rented a stump grinder.

Dougster · Oct 16, 2006

Haoleguy said:
Dougster - Patience, patience, patience! You might have to readjust your expectations on speed....I have to all the time. Eddie's got it right on technique. It will be a mess to start but when finished fill in the hole and compact slightly. I had recently done two different 2 headed maple root balls of approximately the same size. Completion rates were 1hr with 12K lb excavator and 4hr with my JD5325-BH49 combo. For me the maples have been the most difficult. We await your results.....Cheers

That's an interesting comparison... 1 hour vs. 4 hours (apparently a midi-excavator (?) vs. a darn nice (and powerful) JD aggie-based TLB. This is exactly what I don't like to hear...

...but better to know the time it will take than to underestimate the job and still be working on it after the sun goes down!

Dougster

mike69440 · Oct 16, 2006

I have not tackled a big stmp lately with my L-39. There is a reason for that. I have learrned not to beat on the machine and waste my time when my seat time is more valueable doing HD landscaping vs. paying a larger machine to tear up the place doing the work.

However this weekend I was mucking out part of the swamp to start the road project over the wetland. (Yes, I have the darn permits) This was to allow better access for the escavator and the dump trucks when the heavy work starts.

I started working a large stump, just to see if I could get it out, but being in a swamp, I only could get at it from one side. I ended up spending about 25 minutes to loosen it, but could not rip it out as I could not get to the roots on the other side. I left it for the escavator.

The lesson is with a smaller hoe, you have to get digging deep all around it to remove it.

Also do not try to pull a stump too large for the machine to pull out of the hole and carry or drag, in my case that would be +3,000 lbs, which is a rather large root ball.

For comparision in the wet soil I was able to rip 6 to 8" stumps out by just scaring the soil around the stump and peeling out the stump just like an escavator would with a large stump.

jeffinsgf · Oct 16, 2006

Dougster said:
That's an interesting comparison... 1 hour vs. 4 hours (apparently a midi-excavator (?) vs. a darn nice (and powerful) JD aggie-based TLB. This is exactly what I don't like to hear... ...but better to know the time it will take than to underestimate the job and still be working on it after the sun goes down!

Dougster

Aw, Doug --- our holes weren't THAT big. We just want to make them sound bigger than they were!

Sorta like tractor based fish stories. I might even need to get a tape out to see if that sycamore really was 24".

Remote spoils pile in my book is as far away as the arm can reach. I'm not going to move the machine for every bucket. I might shove it around with the loader a little, but only when necessary.

Pick the smallest victim, get out there and have at it. You'll have your technique for minimal impact down by the third or fourth one.

Dougster · Oct 17, 2006

jeffinsgf said:
Aw, Doug --- our holes weren't THAT big. We just want to make them sound bigger than they were! Sorta like tractor based fish stories. I might even need to get a tape out to see if that sycamore really was 24". Remote spoils pile in my book is as far away as the arm can reach. I'm not going to move the machine for every bucket. I might shove it around with the loader a little, but only when necessary. Pick the smallest victim, get out there and have at it. You'll have your technique for minimal impact down by the third or fourth one.

I understand what you're saying Jeff... and I'm kinda sorta kidding you guys back a bit!

Around all the highly useful hints and experience you guys have thrown out (and I appreciate every one of them), the theme of "bigger is better" started getting a little out of hand!

I do get the point... very clearly... but it does me no good to dig the grand canyon just so I don't have to jump down off the tractor and use the chainsaw for a few minutes (as an example) if you get my drift. Hence my desire to turn away from the themes of overall ease, efficiency, predictability, etc... and maybe talk a little bit about what a doctor might call "minimally invasive" stump surgery!

Related to that, I'd like to ask another question. Reading between the lines of some of the more recent posts, I'm getting the impression that many folks feel there is a practical/sensible limit to what size stump I can expect to pull safely & efficiently... i.e., without overworking or damaging my machine... beyond which I should maybe consider postponing removal for now and renting a construction backhoe for a few days next year (after mud season ends) to address that work. And so I ask... in terms of stump size, at what point might I be asking too much of my Bradco 509 backhoe?

Dougster