Need battery help for Gator Ride-on toy

Mrwurm · Jun 12, 2004

My son has a 12 volt John Deere Gator ride-on toy. It’s pretty slick, except for the battery.After only a few months of use last summer, the battery barely holds a charge. After 12 hours of Charging, my boy is lucky to get five minutes of riding out of it. I looked at replacing the battery to the tune of $59 but I don’t want the same poor performance. The battery is similar in size and shape to a standard garden tractor battery which can be had for under $20.

I can make the battery fit and wire the connections. I can also charge the battery with my auto charger and/or trickle charger.

My question for you electrical guys is this. Will a 12 volt garden tractor battery outperform the 12 volt 12.5 AH battery that comes standard with the toy?

See pic

Mrwurm · Jun 12, 2004

The Gator (from an ad)

TWINKLE_TOES · Jun 12, 2004

Jerry, might be able to help if I knew a bit more. What is the technology for the original battery and the garden tractor battery (lead acid, sealed lead acid, Nickel Cadmimum)? I'm guessing the $20 battery is flooded cell (unsealed) and if so a poor choice for this application should the toy tip over. The early demise of the original battery was probably due to improper charging from the original charger.
Battery chargers need to be "smart" to get long life from the battery. All else being equal if the batteries boast the same number of amp-hours and are of the same technology and the same physical size you should get equal performance.

Mrwurm · Jun 14, 2004

The original battery had 12.5 AH rating. Does this compare to the 'cranking amps' on a tractor battery?

daedong · Jun 14, 2004

I am no expert on such matters, but i would suggest the best battery for this application needs to be a deep cycle battery. Deep cycle batteries can take severe draining were others ordinary batteries can not handle repeated flattening
have a look at this. http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Major%20Battery%20Types

Mrwurm · Jun 14, 2004

Good site ! Thanks /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Kevin37 · Jun 14, 2004

Jerry

I have the same Gator for my three year old. We've had it over a year and luckily the battery seems to be holding up. The wheels are a different story. They are wearing through on the outer edges ot the "tread". Just like the "Big Wheels" I wore through in the early '70's. Replacement cost from Peg Pergo: a mere $85 !!!! Holy cow, there must be a better alternative then that. Got any wheel ideas?

Thanks
Kevin

Mrwurm · Jun 14, 2004

I've seen some wheel liners on ebay that seem to be strips of rubber that slip on the tire like 'retreads'. I'll bet you could make some from sections of truck inner tube.

Tractors4u · Jun 14, 2004

Jerry,

Let us know if you find a suitable replacement. My daughters little Gator's battery is shot as well.

TWINKLE_TOES · Jun 14, 2004

No not really, although a high capacity(Amp-Hr) battery will generally have high CCA. Cold Cranking Amps is a rating used in the battery industry to define a battery's ability to start an engine in cold temperatures. The rating is the number of amps a new, fully charged battery can deliver at 0° Farenheit for 30 seconds,while maintaining a voltage of at least 7.2 volts, for a 12 volt battery. The higher the CCA rating, the greater the startingpower of the battery.

The 7.5 Amp Hour rating means that at the C rate for the battery it will delivery the stated Amp Hours. For a 1Amp C rate the battery will delivery 1 amp for 7.5 hours. Higher currents will have lower Amp Hour products lower currents will have higer amp hour products.

This application for a battery is very demanding. The depth of discharge is high (boy runs the car until it stops going) and this is repeated many times. This is the best way I know to kill a lead acid battery and this include the "deep cycle" type, repeated discharge below 50% for a deep cycle battery is also a killer.

The best technology at a reasonable price is Nickel Cadmimum, the kind you have in your cordless equipment. You will need a charger designed to charge Nickel Cadmium batteries matched to your battery.

TWINKLE_TOES · Jun 15, 2004

Jerry and Brent, I went to Peg Pergo's web site (liscensed by Deere to build the Gator) and found the battery
is sealed lead acid. Battery Care

The battery has a limited warrenty of 6 months. The battery care instructions to never charge for less than 16 hours nor more than 24 hours and to never completely discharge the battery is pretty unrealistic for this application.
Sealed lead acid batteries are unforgiving of overcharge (no way to replace electrolyte). No information was given for the charger, but if it can recharge a 7.5amp hours battery in 16 hours it is delivering about 1/2 Amp @ a charge efficiency of 80%.
This type charger will kill the battery if left on for extended periods.

As I see it you could buy a similar replacement battery and meticulously follow the Mfg. instruction for charging. Explain to your children that they have to quit using the gator after a fixed period of time (even though it is still running just fine. This will only improve on the battery life because of the depth of discharge)

Or upgrade to a Nickel Cadmium Battery and smart charger.

MossRoad · Jun 15, 2004

My brother in law adapted a cordless drill battery for his daughter's off road vehicle(sidewalk terror). He had two of the charger packs, so he gutted one and used it for a socket in the vehicle. So now when the battery dies, he just pops it out of the socket and throws it in the charger. He has another one already charged, so he pops that in. Depending on how hard the kid drives it, she can get about 20 minutes of continuos runtime out of each battery. And the battery charges in about an hour. So with the two batteries, she can run a long time. Another thing is the vehicle was originally a 9V and I think he is using an 18V battery, so it has a little more speed now. The drive motors don't seem to care that they are getting twice the voltage. If you can find this stuff scrap, it is alot cheaper than new. He cruises the well off neighborhoods on trash days and finds all sorts of good stuff that people don't bother donating to charity. Hope this helps.

Mrwurm · Jun 15, 2004

That's neat idea. It's got me thinking /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Kevin37 · Jun 15, 2004

I'm with you there, Jerry. I just discovered my charger is DOA because it got wet. I was afraid to look up the cost to replace that PLUS the wheels! I've got several 14+ Volt cordless tools I no longer use. I'll start tinkering this weekend!!

Kevin

rockyridgefarm · Jun 16, 2004

I think the stock charger is a lot of the problem. I switched my kid's gator over to an onboard auto charger, so they can plug it in and forget it.

But that cordless tool battery answer sounds interesting...

Jim_Fisher · Jun 17, 2004

Jerry,

Do you have a Black & Decker outlet nearby? I just picked up a reconditioned B&D 12v cordless drill for $25.00. Comes with two batteries and a charger. Probably has most of what you need to make the conversion.

Jim Fisher

Mrwurm · Jun 17, 2004

Yes, there is a Black&Decker outlet. I have'nt been in there in a few years, but I believe they only sell reconditioned stuff in there. Good idea /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

TWINKLE_TOES · Jun 17, 2004

Jerry, the "tool" batteries will have about 20% of the capacity of your battery.
To have nearly the same capacity as you current battery a Nickel Cadmimum battery would take 10 F size cells.
An F cell is 1.3 in dia and 3.6 in tall