Need First Tractor. . . I want to learn! ! !

[airbiscuit]

So here's the thing. If you get a tractor, any tractor and decent implements, you will be amazed with what you can do. So whether you buy used or new, CUT or old farm tractor, if you have the right implements, you will do cool things. Your budget will dictate the direction. If you start off used or really used, you will probably end up upgrading down the line. That's okay, you will have gotten a lot of work done, and will have a better idea of what version 2.0 should look like. If you buy new right out of the chute, well, way to go.

In any case, here is what I think is a good start.

30hp-40hp Tractor WITH Loader
Rough Cut Rotary Cutter
Rear Blade
Tiller

That will get you off and running.

 

[redman135]

Hello jezreel,I am going to offer a contrary opinion. Use a contractor to do the big initial jobs, and get a smaller tractor to look after the maintenance. It is quite easy to overspend or spend on the wrong attatchments at your level of inexperience.
Good Luck whichever way you jump.

 

[rScotty]

Don't generally disagree w/ rScotty, however the cash purchase is overated in some cases. Case in point: Few years ago, my kubota financing required NO money down, O percent- 60 months, even the sales tax was using kubota' s money. At that time cash vs finance price of machine was the same. Manufacturers have since become a little smarter, baking in a finance fee.

That's OK. Sometimes I disagree with myself....and as an example, when we bought the M59 in 2008, my wife and I had been looking for months and knew we had found the right tractor. We had already been to JD, NH, Cat, and Case - and finally now we found what we liked best at Kubota. That sure surprised us! A Japanese tractor! Imagine that!! But no denying it was just what we were looking for. And seemed well made.

So we sat down with the dealer to enjoy the laidback farmstyle dickering on price and options that is so much a part of rural culture in the US. Both the dealer and I both knew that unless things went way wrong between us it was obvious that I was going to buy that particular tractor off their lot. But of course it was way less obvious as to just what the extras would be, and what would and wouldn't be included, or for that matter for how much total money. As well as just how the sales & service contract would read. Those are the fun parts of buying anything big.

We had gotten it all figured out and the sales contract written up to our mutual satisfaction and I'm actually opening my checkbook when the dealer asked if I would rather use the 0% financing instead of cash. uh...what??

For the slightest discount we would have paid cash. We expected to do so. It was frankly very hard for that dealer to convince me that cash vs Kubota's 0% financing really didn't make any difference to him, and that Kubota was entirely on the level with the 0%, 60 month financing - But after awhile he did. and well, shucks... to us that 0% financing sure looked a lot like a kind of ultimate disaster insurance all in itself. So we went with the financing & dutifully sent off checks every month for 5 years.

And they really did finance the entire price including tax at 0% for 60 months right to the penny. BTW, they had no problem accepting our rural homeowners insurance to cover the tractor used on the property.

To this day I'm not sure what advantage that Kubota felt like they were getting out of that deal by financing us. But on our side we sure did OK. Nice tractor, too.
But that kind of deal has got to be the exception...., or is it?
rScotty

 

[Gudrde]

I inherited my pop's 1976 Kubota L225DT. I believe they were made from 1974 to 1976 or 1977. I believe the horse power is around 24 hp with torque in the neighborhood of 72 lbs/ft. A word of caution; my dad exploded the front Differential twice over working it so be careful because Kubota stopped producing Diff parts a few years ago and trying to find used parts is next to impossible. I say next to impossible becuz after 8 years of searching i finally found a used diff in Nebraska for $950.00. Pricy but i just had to have the parts to make my tractor work properly. Other than that the tractor is bullet proof.

 

[majorwager]

Weaver compact tractor parts in PA is a dismantler, a used parts source.

 

[RandyinTN]

OP,
I was in the same situation as you. Zero tractor knowledge and plenty of land and a need to buy one. Started off thinking a 25 hp model would work but after joining this forum learned a bunch. I slowly upgraded my thinking until I got in the 45 hp hyda area.

Kobutos are about $4k more for the same setup.
Kiotis were priced good and my local dealer seems to offer good support
Bransons were nice and heavy, a little less than the Kioti, but the dealer was small and that concerned me he might be gone in the near future.

After 6 months of research went with the Kioti NX4510H with backhoe and FEL. It will not be delivered until next month so can not comment on the quality yet.

IMO price isnt everything. Dealer support and proximity are just as important as price, if not more so. I am sure if we have any issues operating our new toys the members here will help us, especially if it comes to spending more money!

Good luck.

 

[majorwager]

Randy,

Not sure dealer proximity is ALWAYS critical to new tractor sales. There are numerous posts indicating members have traveled substantial distances to either purchase a brand not available locally, OR purchase a brand from a distant dealer offering a substantial purchase savings.

Many members are mechanically saavy, wherein minor issues do not present an impediment. I stated recently that I have purchased nine new tractors and NONE were EVER returned to the dealer for warranty service.

EDIT: see this post from today, screenshot below.

 

[RandyinTN]

Good point. But you are on at least your ninth tractor. Few of us novices have that experience to rely on. Heck, I am sure I will have to make weekly visits to my dealer just to learn the basics in the next few months.

 

[metalbender]

A thought on an older tractor, down time and repair facility. A new tractor from a good dealer will get looked at quickly if you have a problem. Being retired, I don't want to spend my time fixing. Have been a mechanic all my life, don't need the practice anymore. My purchase was a new 1742 Massey cab tractor, dealer is only twelve miles away. Had bought an old Ford 3000, before I moved. Open station isn't a lot of fun blowing snow. Std gear drive makes loader work suck. Money in the bank doesn't do crap anyway, might as well enjoy. The new tractor makes chores a pleasure.

 

[gladehound]

Just another opinion... I think reliability concerns with older equipment are over blown. Old simple mechanical machines rarely have problems. Your more likely to have problems with a new machine. A mechanical pre-Tier IV emissions tractor is a joy to own.

 

[rScotty]

Just another opinion... I think reliability concerns with older equipment are over blown. Old simple mechanical machines rarely have problems. Your more likely to have problems with a new machine. A mechanical pre-Tier IV emissions tractor is a joy to own.

I agree. New and old, they are both a joy to own - but for slightly different reasons.
The old ones have funky charm, and are simple, inexpensive, easy machines to run and to understand. There's a sense of quality in the heavy duty way even the smallest ones were built. Control systems tend to be mechanical type; electricals are limited to starting....and sometimes lights.
You pretty much have to like gear shifting or power shifting because that's all there is. Power steering is optional and should have been on everything. The hydraulics on the older ones are as good or maybe even a touch better than new models. Even a modest mechanic can make most adjustments himself

The new ones have a shiny finish coupled with way more comfortable seats and control location. They have safety equipment deemed un-necessary for older machines - and that's a good thing. New tractors are somewhat more complex to operate than older ones, but require less wrestling from the operator.
New tractors have the same sense of quality that you find in modern cars where a lot of the strength comes from alloys and the way everything is attached to something else.
They are absolutely loaded with electrical systems, warnings, lights, and accessories. Control systems are usually electrically actuated rather than mechanical type.
New tractors have a range of different transmission types. The HST (hydrostatic transmission) is a joy! They almost always have power steering. Formerly routine adjustments are designed for dealer mechanics to do.

Both new and old will do the same exact work, and the reliability seems to be about equal. Reliability was always of prime importance for tractors, and it was pretty much perfected a generation ago... or before. The biggest difference I notice seems to be in the amount of operator input required. New ones are fingertip control; older tractors take more operator effort with levers and feet.

Regardless of new or old, condition is everything. I can't over-emphasize that. A well-maintained 30 year old tractor can be every bit as reliable as a new one. After a few hundred hours to a few thousand, both new and old are going to be roughly equal in reliability. it's all in how well they are used and maintained.
rScotty

 

[gladehound]

I agree. New and old, they are both a joy to own - but for slightly different reasons.
The old ones have funky charm, and are simple, inexpensive, easy machines to run and to understand. There's a sense of quality in the heavy duty way even the smallest ones were built. Control systems tend to be mechanical type; electricals are limited to starting....and sometimes lights.
You pretty much have to like gear shifting or power shifting because that's all there is. Power steering is optional and should have been on everything. The hydraulics on the older ones are as good or maybe even a touch better than new models. Even a modest mechanic can make most adjustments himself

The new ones have a shiny finish coupled with way more comfortable seats and control location. They have safety equipment deemed un-necessary for older machines - and that's a good thing. New tractors are somewhat more complex to operate than older ones, but require less wrestling from the operator.
New tractors have the same sense of quality that you find in modern cars where a lot of the strength comes from alloys and the way everything is attached to something else.
They are absolutely loaded with electrical systems, warnings, lights, and accessories. Control systems are usually electrically actuated rather than mechanical type.
New tractors have a range of different transmission types. The HST (hydrostatic transmission) is a joy! They almost always have power steering. Formerly routine adjustments are designed for dealer mechanics to do.

Both new and old will do the same exact work, and the reliability seems to be about equal. Reliability was always of prime importance for tractors, and it was pretty much perfected a generation ago... or before. The biggest difference I notice seems to be in the amount of operator input required. New ones are fingertip control; older tractors take more operator effort with levers and feet.

Regardless of new or old, condition is everything. I can't over-emphasize that. A well-maintained 30 year old tractor can be every bit as reliable as a new one. After a few hundred hours to a few thousand, both new and old are going to be roughly equal in reliability. it's all in how well they are used and maintained.
rScotty

Very well said!

 

[jezreel]

Okey Doke. . . I致e been soaking it all in, but I have a question. A couple of y誕ll have mentioned backhoes. RandyinTN mentioned he just ordered a new tractor with a FEL and backhoe. Other than digging holes, what types of jobs around the property would I use the backhoe on? Don稚 spend too much time on this question. Sorry for the stupid question.

 

[gladehound]

Most people can hire out any backhoe work they need done for less than the cost of a backhoe because they are quite pricy. Hopefully most who own backhoes are the exception. Backhoes a best for holes and deep trenches. There are also narrow buckets (stump buckets) that can quickly dig a hole as deep as they are long. There are fork attachments that can do the same thing. Neither are a backhoe replacement but work fine for shallow holes if attached to a large enough machine.

 

[dodge man]

End loaders can dig a hole and go deep but your hole will be as wide or wider than your bucket. End loaders are not very good for digging down if that makes any sense. For example I put 2 15 inch culverts under my driveway where there had only been one before. The only way I could dig the trench to put the culverts in was because I could drive down the ditch line to dig the trench. My bucket is 4 feet wide so the trench ended up too wide. They also were not very deep.

Imagine trying to dig a water line in 5 feet deep this way. You could do it but your trench would be 4 feet wide and you have to have a ramp to get out of the trench to dump the dirt. It would take a huge amount of time. A back hoe sits up top and is perfect for digging trench’s and deep holes. It’s also an expensive add on for tractors so you want to make sure you need it.

 

[rScotty]

Okey Doke. . . I致e been soaking it all in, but I have a question. A couple of y誕ll have mentioned backhoes. RandyinTN mentioned he just ordered a new tractor with a FEL and backhoe. Other than digging holes, what types of jobs around the property would I use the backhoe on? Don稚 spend too much time on this question. Sorry for the stupid question.

I have a thumb on the backhoe and that makes it useful for lots of things. A thumb makes it a whole different tool. It carries trees and big rocks and can place either one of them easily and accurately. With the thumb I can also pick up piles of debis and put them somewhere else. The backhoe is very handy as a crane for picking up heavy implements or tools and putting them down somewhere else very gently and accurately. Of course it is good for digging holes and trenches, but I really don't use it as much for that . Most use is as a landscaping tool or handy stong crane for lifting and placing.
rScotty

 

[not2old]

Most people can hire out any backhoe work they need done for less than the cost of a backhoe because they are quite pricy. Hopefully most who own backhoes are the exception. Backhoes a best for holes and deep trenches. There are also narrow buckets (stump buckets) that can quickly dig a hole as deep as they are long. There are fork attachments that can do the same thing. Neither are a backhoe replacement but work fine for shallow holes if attached to a large enough machine.

I'm retired and my time is almost free. In eight years I've used my hoe to install three yard hydrants with about 300 feet of trench, dug a 13 foot deep dry well and dug out over 100 stumps, some of which weigh over the lifting weight of my machine. I'm 1/2 way through building a retaining wall, moving over 1000 yards of gravel and about to dig out for a foundation for a shop. I would have spent way more money on hiring out these jobs and admit some of them wouldn't have been due to the cost. AND I STILL HAVE MY HOE.

 

[rngrrymd]

Okey Doke. . . I致e been soaking it all in, but I have a question. A couple of y誕ll have mentioned backhoes. RandyinTN mentioned he just ordered a new tractor with a FEL and backhoe. Other than digging holes, what types of jobs around the property would I use the backhoe on? Don稚 spend too much time on this question. Sorry for the stupid question.

Not a stupid question. It is one widely debated on both sides of the aisle here on TBN. You will have to evaluate what tasks you will for sure be able to use the backhoe on or specifically need a backhoe or excavator of some type to perform. Do you have enough tasks to justify purchasing a backhoe with your tractor? Then you have to look at your availability to use a backhoe or excavator time-wise. Since you are retiring and "should" have more time (I know some guys who are busier retired than they were working) it may be cost beneficial to you to rent equipment for a day or 2 if you can line up all your projects to be done one right after the other. You will have to evaluate the cost of getting the backhoe attachment vs the cost of renting equipment or hiring out the job. If it makes sense to get the backhoe then get it. If not, then rent or hire out.

In my case, I work an average of 60 hours or more a week so I have limited seat time in big blocks of time so I need availability of my backhoe at all times so I can get a couple hours in here and there. I also have enough projects on my 20 acres including building a house over the next 2 years to justify the cost. Everyone's situation is different - the main concern is not to frivolously spend money on an item you won't use but on the other hand not waste money having to hire out or rent if it doesn't suit your situation. In the end, it is your money and your choice, we can only give good or bad advice. hth.

 

[terryknight]

my problem with backhoes for cuts and utility tractors is that for the same money you can buy an older full size hoe that even worn out is more than a cut or ut hoe will ever be. sure it's another piece of equipment to maintain and they are large, maybe too large for some spaces. but buy it do your work and sell it for close to what you paid. we have an 86 case 580 dad bought it for 6500 10 ish years ago. still have it, and it's nice to have it, and if it were to be sold, i bet it would be more than he paid (he have done some work to it)

 

[4570Man]

Any full size tlb that’s worth what I had in my tractor backhoe is completely worn out. Old worn out backhoes are money pits. Although I only have 7k more in my nice full size backhoe than I got for my old tractor with a backhoe. And I got 700 hours work from the tractor nearly for free.