Need heat pump help again

bczoom · Jun 15, 2005

Jim,

I've avoided using the heat strips as much as possible and use a wood stove as primary heat (with heat pump as aux).
Since I haven't used the strips, I can't speak for what they do to the electric bill but I will warn you to stay away from the meter when they are on. That disks spins so fast you'll think it's going to fly out.

If you do go with all electric, also check with your electric supplier. My rate drops to around 4 cents in the winter since they give me a discount for having an all ele. house. They may also give you some $ towards a new furnace to drop the propane and go all electric.

Brian

Sigarms · Jun 15, 2005

Rheem/Rudd/WeatherKing
Carrier/Bryant/Payne
Lennox/Armstrong/AirEase/Ducane/Whirlpool
Amana/Goodman/Janitrol
Miler/Nordyne/Maytag
Tempstar/Heil/ICP owned by Carrier
Trane/American Standard
York/Coleman

Thier are others...but you get the idea

Fact is, almost all manufacturers are "connected".

The most important "part" in deciding what HVAC system to put in your house is not who makes it (the equipment), but WHOS PUTTING IT IN!

If you want it done right, you should have a load calculation done on your house.

DONT FORGET: next year, minimum S.E.E.R will be 13.

If you replace you outdoor unit with a 12 S.E.E.R or less, "down the road", if you need to replace either your condensing unit or air handler, the system "match-up" will have to be at least 13 S.E.E.R (which means you may have to replace both units AGAIN, not just one).

Although when I worked in Pa, I never knew of anyone who actually pulled a permit and got thier job inspected, so you might be "safe" from that scenerio /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

But...as of the August, most manufacturers are going to be "changing thier assembly lines", and after January 26th, 2006, NO ONE will me making a unit less than 13 S.E.E.R.

If you live near Pittsburgh, Meadville, Mercer or Uniontown, I could reccoment someone, but they probably won't be the cheapest, but it will be done right and they will stand behind thier work.

Personally, I'm putting a 14 S.E.E.R heat pump in my house, with a 90% variable speed (propane) furnace. Instead of the heat strips, I'm using the gas furnace for "back up" heat (heat pump will heat the house until it gets below 45, then the gas funace kicks in (use less propane) and the heat is "better" (and don't forget, I'm living in sunny N.C now /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif)

Now, if you want the "cat's meow" for heating, go with a Buderus boiler with radiant heat, and a high velocity air system for A/C

bczoom · Jun 15, 2005

Thanks for the info Sig.

( Fact is, almost all manufacturers are "connected". ) Doesn't it go even deeper? I heard that almost every compressor and most of the electric/electronic components are only made by 2 or 3 companies.

Both of the people I'm working with now have installed units for several years. Actually, one person is the person that installed it 15 years ago, the other is the neighbor who's been maintaining (limping it through) for the past couple but has been so busy, I can't get his attention.

The Amana I'm waiting for a price on is a 14 seer. I have not gotten any info on the WeatherKing but he just installed the same unit in his house last weekend.

As for size, my last was 4.5 ton and seemed just a bit undersized/inadequate. I'm moving up to a 5 ton.

Brian

Sigarms · Jun 15, 2005

Most compressors are either copeland or bristol.

Condensing unit- compressor,contactor, fan motor, fan blade, drier. Not too much in these things are there? /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Anyone worth thier weight in the HVAC field should be able to work up a load on your house in less than a half hour (on a computer I can do it in less than 10 minutes, as long as it's a "simple house" without a lot of windows or VERY HIGH ceilings and so forth).

Anyone can give you this, the trick is knowing where to deliver the proper CFM's to each room, and making sure your duct work is the right size for the amount of air you need.

bczoom · Jun 15, 2005

( ....as long as it's a "simple house" without a lot of windows or VERY HIGH ceilings and so forth.)
Therein lies my issue(s)

( Anyone can give you this, the trick is knowing where to deliver the proper CFM's to each room, and making sure your duct work is the right size for the amount of air you need.)

That's where I'm also wondering if I have a problem but how much can be done inside walls and stuff?

PBinWA · Jun 15, 2005

( Personally, I'm putting a 14 S.E.E.R heat pump in my house, with a 90% variable speed (propane) furnace. Instead of the heat strips, I'm using the gas furnace for "back up" heat (heat pump will heat the house until it gets below 45, then the gas funace kicks in (use less propane) and the heat is "better" (and don't forget, I'm living in sunny N.C now /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif)
)

You seem to know your stuff. What brand heat pump are you going to be using and why are you choosing it?

Sigarms · Jun 15, 2005

ANYTHING can be figured out as far as the load requirement for your house as long as you take the time. Remember though, ALL of your "variables" must be included when doing a load (such as the north side of the house,insulation, location, height and so forth.) note: windows play a BIG part of the "equation".

To give you an example, you can take the same square footage house, and run a different R value in the house, and your load can have difference as much as 12k BTU's (12,000 BTU's = 1 ton, 400CFM=1 ton).

I actually have three seperate systems in my house (one for each floor). Not exactly the way I would of liked it (zoning can be much more effective), but that is how the house came when I bought it, and at this point, it could cost more than I would like to change it (and at this point, it wouldn't be as cost effective).

Brand I'm putting in? I'll just say that since I "work behind the scenes" (meaning that I don't deal with home owners), my cost is "very competitive" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You can't go wrong with any line, seriously. It really does come down to who's putting it in. Now on that note, there are "brands" that offer more "bang for the buck".

Honest opinon, there are some "lines" that are over priced.

You do get what you pay for, but... sometimes you end up paying more.

Again, the key is getting someone who knows what thier doing (example, you can have all kinds of problems with a high efficient (sp?) carrier equipment, but you can have a "low end" Janitrol unit run fine for 20 years without a problem. The difference between the two? The way it was put in (installed).

Take note that if you actually do have a "load" done on the house, and you find that you need a different size unit (say the load comes out to 3 ton, and you have a 2 ton system currently in place), chances are that you are going to need to have some ductwork resized (this is the case if the ductwork was sized properly in the first place).

A funny side note, many times I'll have contractors ask me for a "quick" estimate on a "load" for a house. Fact is, if your going to do one, you need all the info posible. Now some of these guys have been in business for a LONG time. They'll say, hey, I have a 2400 sq. ft house, how much cooling do I need? I tell them to stand 20' away from the house, place thier two thumbs together (like your making a "field goal", and walk backwards and count the steps it takes to make the house "fill" in the "field goal" (from your hands together). Take the number of steps, multiply by 3.14, multiply that number by 24,000, and divide by the number of people living in the house. You'd be surprised how long it takes them to realize that I'm joking.

As far as my knoweldge (sp?)? I don't know that much. There are guys in the industry that have forgotten more than I can ever learn.

TBone · Jun 15, 2005

Brian,

When my house was built 23 years ago I had a Rheem heat pump installed. I wish I could say I chose Rheem because I did a lot of research on reliability, efficiency, etc. The truth is Rheem is what the contractor chose for me and I didn't question it.

The old guy that installed it (he is retired now) must have done a pretty good job because it was completely trouble free for the first 18 years and has only required minimal service since then. During the past 5 years I have replaced the fan motor, a relay and added freon twice.

I kinda wish it would quit so I can replace it with a more energy efficient model but it's like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going and going and going. So far I just can't bring myself to put it out of it's misery.

My service man who is also a neighbor said if it were his he would just let it run till it quits. He also said what somebody else already mentioned "They don't make 'em like they used to".

I suspect it's going to get another workout this summer. If there's an endurance test for air conditioners it's Mississippi in the summertime.

I have seldom used this unit for heat so I can't say how well it does or how much it costs to operate. A couple of times I did turn it to emergency heat (heat strips on) you could hear the electric meter hum from 15 feet away /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif so I suspect it would get expensive in a hurry.

I can't say how Rheem equipment is now. I'm sure their quality goes and comes like everything else. I do know when I replace mine I am going to give them another try.

TBone

slowrev · Jun 15, 2005

One question / point on the electric heat strips in the air handler.
Aren't they used during the outside unit defrost cycle ?
I had a unit where they were used in this manner to prevent cold air from being blown out the vents while the unit is actually running in cooling mode, to defrost the outside coils.

Ben