Need help with well pump project

woodlandfarms · Jul 14, 2013

So we went on city water a few years ago and were required to abandon our old well. But I made sure I saved the pump (it was fairly new). I now have a use for it (pumping water out of a pond) but I am unsure of wiring. My hope is that I do not need all the complicated control panels as I have them, but they are now buried behind shelving.

The pump is a gould 4" submersible model # 10LS05412. Wire colors are Red Black Green and Yellow. I intend to run this off my 5K generator which as 220. But now I am stumped. Green appears to be ground as it is thinner (and the color would be correct) but I am unsure of the other colors.

Anyone have any advice they can impart. I have struck out on the net other than tech specs that are over my head.

Iowachild · Jul 14, 2013

Well, yeah you are going to need the stuff that is buried behind the shelving. What you have is a 3-wire system that utilizes a control box to house the capacitors and relay, rather than having them in the submersible pump itself. I have attached a drawing which shows how it is hooked up. Hope this helps.

FourSonsFarm · Jul 14, 2013

I think you're going to need the control box. It has a start and run capacitor inside of it that you will need.

-Joey

Scooby074 · Jul 14, 2013

Iowa has it covered. Control box is likely required.

But Im curious as to why you went off your well? Im on a well, and although I could go onto city water, I wont. They're frequently raising rates, and I want to be in control of my own source of water. If I want to run the sprinkler for hours, all it costs me is power!

woodlandfarms · Jul 14, 2013

Darnit. So, help me with this, I understand the cap gives an extra boost to the pump motor to get it rotating. Is it necessary? Or, How necessary is it? Can the pump start and run without the cap?

woodlandfarms · Jul 14, 2013

Scooby074 said:
Iowa has it covered. Control box is likely required.

But Im curious as to why you went off your well? Im on a well, and although I could go onto city water, I wont. They're frequently raising rates, and I want to be in control of my own source of water. If I want to run the sprinkler for hours, all it costs me is power!

We have a bad deal with Arsenic in the water. While our house did not have the issue, our well was very shallow and we ran out of water in the summer. We were also told that a better loan would hinge on water. So, we consulted with the local drillers and they said while they would find water lower, they could not guarantee the quality given the issues we are surrounded with. Also, the city made an offer that was hard to beat (compared to drilling a new well).

Saddly the City changed the prices and our deal ended up not being much of a deal in the end. We are now working with the city and our attorneys to resolve (an entire community was ambushed)

CliffordK · Jul 14, 2013

There are shallow and deep well pumps. Since yours was a shallow well pump, it will probably be OK. However, many people pumping out of ponds will have the pump located on dry land, and only a hose & foot in the pond.

Nonetheless, your pump should work, but I'd make sure the intake doesn't sink down into the silt.

How much water are you planning to pump?

With a generator? Not running power from the house?

I'm pumping a bit under 1 GPM out of my spring with a small 12V pump. For now, I'm using a battery charger with extension cords, but soon it will have a solar panel installed.

If you need a LOT of water, you're better off with a gasoline pump, rather than a gas generator and electric pump.

Larry Jones · Jul 15, 2013

woodlandfarms said:
Darnit. So, help me with this, I understand the cap gives an extra boost to the pump motor to get it rotating. Is it necessary? Or, How necessary is it? Can the pump start and run without the cap?

You are likely to burn the motor up with out the cap.

woodlandfarms · Jul 16, 2013

Is that because the motor will overheat trying to get up to speed? I am just trying to get the theory down to see how far Ican push and what I need to be careful on. It is a $500 pump motor and I would be bummed to kill it, but by the same standard, It is pumping 7 feet vertical and across a dirt road into a ravine. Maybe 20 feet total with 7 of it vertical.

woodlandfarms · Jul 16, 2013

Also, back to the wires. I see in the diagram Red, Black and Yellow. So, what are the hots and what is nuetral. It has it all running into a switch box with no explanation.

CliffordK · Jul 16, 2013

Ok, here's a simplified wiring diagram:

TESTING SUBMERSIBLE PUMP CONTROL BOX

Black & Yellow are your main 220V leads.
Red is to the start capacitor.
Green is Ground.

With 220V, you don't really have a "neutral".

You would wire the pressure control switch BEFORE the motor controller box.

Anyway, a Motor Controller Box should be about $30 at your favorite building supply store for a 1 or 1.5HP pump or so. I certainly would just go get the proper equipment. Another $20 or so for the pressure switch.

What are you pumping the water to? Read about dead-heading pumps.

I really think the right pump for the project is a shallow well pump, and not a $500 submersible pump.

HF has a 1HP shallow well pump plus pressure switch plus small tank for $120.
Also, 1" Clear Water Gasoline Powered Pump for about $145, as well as 2" and 3" gas powered pumps.

Larry Jones · Jul 16, 2013

woodlandfarms said:
Is that because the motor will overheat trying to get up to speed? I am just trying to get the theory down to see how far Ican push and what I need to be careful on. It is a $500 pump motor and I would be bummed to kill it, but by the same standard, It is pumping 7 feet vertical and across a dirt road into a ravine. Maybe 20 feet total with 7 of it vertical.

The motor won't reach full speed and will draw an infinite amount of current because it is in a stall condition. There should be an automatic reset in the motor, plus the circuit breaker to the well that should prevent damage, but I don't think it is a good idea to continually overload the motor. Like others said, get a shallow well pump and sell the submersible

woodlandfarms · Jul 16, 2013

What I really need us a trash pump. Thanks for all the notes. Will pull some shelves today

Iowachild · Jul 16, 2013

woodlandfarms said:
What I really need us a trash pump. Thanks for all the notes. Will pull some shelves today

There are rentals places around here that rent gasoline engine powered trash pumps. Might be an option.

CliffordK · Jul 17, 2013

woodlandfarms said:
It is pumping 7 feet vertical and across a dirt road into a ravine. Maybe 20 feet total with 7 of it vertical.

Are you pumping uphill or downhill? Just planning on draining the pond?

Perhaps you just need to set up a siphon. You can certainly siphon with a 3/4" garden hose, perhaps even a larger hose. Just find one that doesn't easily collapse. Fill the hose with water either from the pond, or some other source, even your house water. Plug both ends until you get it into place, then open the ends and start your siphon.

arlen4720 · Jul 20, 2013

You absolutely need the capacitor...The motor simply will not run without it. The capacitor creates a near 90 deg phase shift in the start windings...kind of creates a virtual phase. Without it the motor will have zero starting torque, and in fact if it were lucky enough to start, it could start in either direction.

woodlandfarms · Jul 20, 2013

I am still trying to get into the panel, but this is only a 1/2HP well motor. Not sure if a cap would apply in this small applicaiton.

arlen4720 · Jul 20, 2013

woodlandfarms said:
I am still trying to get into the panel, but this is only a 1/2HP well motor. Not sure if a cap would apply in this small applicaiton.

I guess that's what I'm trying to tell you...It doesn't matter how small the pump is, if it had a capacitor, then it won't run without it.