Need info on tractor/backhoes

[connortn]

Hi folks:

New here. Located this site a few weeks ago and have read much postings. I'm in need of some helpful information on buying a used Kobota (can't really afford a new one). We have 6 acres, about 4.5 of it in timber up to about 24" diameter (most are smaller than that), quiet rocky (smooth field rock) and almost all flat. We will be building a home on it in the next year or two and need to get it unrocked (for a better word) and about 50-60% clear cut. We'll be cutting timber and stockpiling it for sale later, removing many small, medium and maybe 20-30 larger stumps (wild cherry and oak). Will be grading in about 500' of road and trenching that much for water lines and possibly for underground electric lines plus digging for full basement. Some leveling will be done in the rocky soil but not a lot.

We're looking for something in the Kobota B21 line to work this over the next couple of years, something with a backhoe, bucket and blade. Mowing will be done with smaller riding mower. I've concidered the options of small used backhoe, tractor with attachments or small dozer. I think the backhoe approach will be the most versitle how-be-it not the fastest in some of the work needed. I hesitate going with a small farm tractor with backhoe attachment as the tractors weren't built for heavy backhoe work. Small dozer is out as I can't dig smaller trenches. The B21 looks good since it has been reinforced from the beginning for backhoe work and will probably do the leveling and moving of soil. I'm quiet certain the BX series is too small.

What I need to know is what models of used Kobota's have been designed and built with the backhoe subframe originally. I don't want to go to the trouble of having a subframe/backhoe attached to a regular tractor. I need this info so as to know if a Kobota was designed this way even if it doesn't have the backhoe on it at the time. I see many used Kobota's but have no ideal what I'm looking at. I "would" like to have it equipted with hydrostatic drive so this may eliminate some models, and the easier to operate the better. I tried out a BX24 at the local dealer and liked the ease of opperation but didn't try the B21. I didn't realize just what size machine I would need till I spent some time thinking about it afterwards and realized the BX24 was what I'm looking for but bigger.

Feel free to give advice. I've been around farms most of my life but have a limited amount of heavy equipment operation. I'm not looking to do this work overnight. I'll be going at it slowly but surely if you know what I mean. If I can add any info that would help, feel free to ask.

Thanks for any and all help!

Connortn

 

[connortn]

Hi folks:

New here. Located this site a few weeks ago and have read much postings. I'm in need of some helpful information on buying a used Kobota (can't really afford a new one). We have 6 acres, about 4.5 of it in timber up to about 24" diameter (most are smaller than that), quiet rocky (smooth field rock) and almost all flat. We will be building a home on it in the next year or two and need to get it unrocked (for a better word) and about 50-60% clear cut. We'll be cutting timber and stockpiling it for sale later, removing many small, medium and maybe 20-30 larger stumps (wild cherry and oak). Will be grading in about 500' of road and trenching that much for water lines and possibly for underground electric lines plus digging for full basement. Some leveling will be done in the rocky soil but not a lot.

We're looking for something in the Kobota B21 line to work this over the next couple of years, something with a backhoe, bucket and blade. Mowing will be done with smaller riding mower. I've concidered the options of small used backhoe, tractor with attachments or small dozer. I think the backhoe approach will be the most versitle how-be-it not the fastest in some of the work needed. I hesitate going with a small farm tractor with backhoe attachment as the tractors weren't built for heavy backhoe work. Small dozer is out as I can't dig smaller trenches. The B21 looks good since it has been reinforced from the beginning for backhoe work and will probably do the leveling and moving of soil. I'm quiet certain the BX series is too small.

What I need to know is what models of used Kobota's have been designed and built with the backhoe subframe originally. I don't want to go to the trouble of having a subframe/backhoe attached to a regular tractor. I need this info so as to know if a Kobota was designed this way even if it doesn't have the backhoe on it at the time. I see many used Kobota's but have no ideal what I'm looking at. I "would" like to have it equipted with hydrostatic drive so this may eliminate some models, and the easier to operate the better. I tried out a BX24 at the local dealer and liked the ease of opperation but didn't try the B21. I didn't realize just what size machine I would need till I spent some time thinking about it afterwards and realized the BX24 was what I'm looking for but bigger.

Feel free to give advice. I've been around farms most of my life but have a limited amount of heavy equipment operation. I'm not looking to do this work overnight. I'll be going at it slowly but surely if you know what I mean. If I can add any info that would help, feel free to ask.

Thanks for any and all help!

Connortn

 

[DanR67]

Welcome to TBN Connor -

Just so I'm getting it straight - in summary:

- Clear 1.5 - 2.0 acres of woods
- Grading 500 foot road
- Trenching 500 foot for utilities
- Digging foundation / full basement

Ok so far?

Well - as far as I can from the Kubota specs - the B21 TLB looks like a more rugged, "powerful" machine - although the engine HP is less than the BX24 - but weighs in at @ 1500 lbs more than the BX24 in TLB trim. The B21 FEL and 3PH capacities are also significantly more than the BX24 - So my vote would be for the B21 between the two.

Since you also are going *into the woods* - I'd be a bit concerned on the low ground clearance of the BX24 as well - althought I couldn't find a spec for the B21 TLB...

******************************************

Now some questions:

1) How long do you want to play (uhh....work) at the above tasks?
2) Do you expect the tractor to do *everything* - or do you have a problem renting a larger piece of equipment if needed?
3) Do you have "long-term" plans for your tractor after the initial clearing / site preparation is completed?

As far as question 1) - you said you are planning to go slowly - but do you have construction deadlines to meet - or is it: prep site "at your own pace" - start building *when I'm ready*?

If you have a year or more before you plan on doing anything - then I think you can *putter around* /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif with a B21 just fine. But if you have time constraints (ex. they have to be pouring foundation this fall) - you may want to consider something bigger - a B3030 for example - or maybe better even an L-series...where in this case - *bigger* translates into "getting more done in the same amount of time" - mostly in terms of FEL capacity.

A "bigger" standard tractor - suitably equipped with a factory subframe backhoe - would likely have no problem dealing with the backhoes stresses that you would be asking a B21 to do.

As all the Kubota Backhoe models I compared (B21 / BH75 etc.) - seemed to offer the same digging depth. I know from personal experience - that you can pull out some very large things (rocks / stumps) with a BH - but you can't necessarily move them (easily) after that. I've rented the same JD TLB several times over the past 3-4 years - and last fall it met it's match - a 24-30" maple stump. While I eventually got the stump out - it took EVERYTHING that JD had to push it out of the way - a trip of only 50' or so. Lesson being - for stumping in particular - "bigger is definitely better".

Finally - a "bigger, standard" tractor may be more flexible for you in the long run - say you end up having 3 acres to mow: the PTO on the B21 is rated only for 13.5 HP - limiting the size of a rear finish mower, for example if you ever wanted to *retire* the riding mower.

*********************************

So a brief *scorecard* between a B21 and a "bigger, standard" tractor:

- Backhoe work - likely even unless you go "really big" with a standard model (ex. 40 HP+)
- FEL work (putting in road / moving logs): advantage *bigger, standard tractor*
- Trenching work - even in general - probably favoring the B21 in tight places=
- Digging basement / foundation: advantage *bigger unit* simply because less loader trips are likely needed.

>> The key factor - in my opinion - is "clear-cutting 50 - 60% of the land" - if you were not doing this - then the B21 would be a clear winner for all the other tasks. However you did mention that you have 20 - 30 large trees / stumps to remove - that might be a chore (or fun - depending on how you look at it! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) - that's what has me thinking "bigger"...but what are the long-term needs - and does that justify a bigger unit as well?


*********************************

Hope that gave you something useful to think about.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[DanR67]

Welcome to TBN Connor -

Just so I'm getting it straight - in summary:

- Clear 1.5 - 2.0 acres of woods
- Grading 500 foot road
- Trenching 500 foot for utilities
- Digging foundation / full basement

Ok so far?

Well - as far as I can from the Kubota specs - the B21 TLB looks like a more rugged, "powerful" machine - although the engine HP is less than the BX24 - but weighs in at @ 1500 lbs more than the BX24 in TLB trim. The B21 FEL and 3PH capacities are also significantly more than the BX24 - So my vote would be for the B21 between the two.

Since you also are going *into the woods* - I'd be a bit concerned on the low ground clearance of the BX24 as well - althought I couldn't find a spec for the B21 TLB...

******************************************

Now some questions:

1) How long do you want to play (uhh....work) at the above tasks?
2) Do you expect the tractor to do *everything* - or do you have a problem renting a larger piece of equipment if needed?
3) Do you have "long-term" plans for your tractor after the initial clearing / site preparation is completed?

As far as question 1) - you said you are planning to go slowly - but do you have construction deadlines to meet - or is it: prep site "at your own pace" - start building *when I'm ready*?

If you have a year or more before you plan on doing anything - then I think you can *putter around* /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif with a B21 just fine. But if you have time constraints (ex. they have to be pouring foundation this fall) - you may want to consider something bigger - a B3030 for example - or maybe better even an L-series...where in this case - *bigger* translates into "getting more done in the same amount of time" - mostly in terms of FEL capacity.

A "bigger" standard tractor - suitably equipped with a factory subframe backhoe - would likely have no problem dealing with the backhoes stresses that you would be asking a B21 to do.

As all the Kubota Backhoe models I compared (B21 / BH75 etc.) - seemed to offer the same digging depth. I know from personal experience - that you can pull out some very large things (rocks / stumps) with a BH - but you can't necessarily move them (easily) after that. I've rented the same JD TLB several times over the past 3-4 years - and last fall it met it's match - a 24-30" maple stump. While I eventually got the stump out - it took EVERYTHING that JD had to push it out of the way - a trip of only 50' or so. Lesson being - for stumping in particular - "bigger is definitely better".

Finally - a "bigger, standard" tractor may be more flexible for you in the long run - say you end up having 3 acres to mow: the PTO on the B21 is rated only for 13.5 HP - limiting the size of a rear finish mower, for example if you ever wanted to *retire* the riding mower.

*********************************

So a brief *scorecard* between a B21 and a "bigger, standard" tractor:

- Backhoe work - likely even unless you go "really big" with a standard model (ex. 40 HP+)
- FEL work (putting in road / moving logs): advantage *bigger, standard tractor*
- Trenching work - even in general - probably favoring the B21 in tight places=
- Digging basement / foundation: advantage *bigger unit* simply because less loader trips are likely needed.

>> The key factor - in my opinion - is "clear-cutting 50 - 60% of the land" - if you were not doing this - then the B21 would be a clear winner for all the other tasks. However you did mention that you have 20 - 30 large trees / stumps to remove - that might be a chore (or fun - depending on how you look at it! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) - that's what has me thinking "bigger"...but what are the long-term needs - and does that justify a bigger unit as well?


*********************************

Hope that gave you something useful to think about.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[john_bud]

Well, You may want to attack the issue in 2 parts. First being the ladn clearing and construction tasks. For that you really would be better off with a larger tractor like an L35 industrial TLB. Or an old Ford tractor like a 3600 or 4500 industrial. Then when the "heavy" work is done, sell the TLB and buy a smaller machine. Sale price on a used TLB is pretty flat. You can buy, use and sell for the same price. (unless it breaks!)

jb

 

[john_bud]

Well, You may want to attack the issue in 2 parts. First being the ladn clearing and construction tasks. For that you really would be better off with a larger tractor like an L35 industrial TLB. Or an old Ford tractor like a 3600 or 4500 industrial. Then when the "heavy" work is done, sell the TLB and buy a smaller machine. Sale price on a used TLB is pretty flat. You can buy, use and sell for the same price. (unless it breaks!)

jb

 

[connortn]

Sounds like I found the right place all right! Some very good questions and suggestions here. I'll try to clear some things up a bit on particulars:

1. I am in no hurry for this job to be done inside of maybe one to two years before starting construction. I have no deadlines to meet and actually look forward to enjoying the process.

2. If I run into a task bigger than the piece of equipment I'm using can handle I have a good friend that has large dozer, backhoe and larger track hole, and he's very good at what he does. I'd rather pay him to do an expert job and much quicker than I could with rented equipment.

3. I have no long term plans for the equipment after I'm through play... er, using it. Would most likely sell it (taking good care of it of course) unless I just become too attached to it.

4. I don't know the clearance of the B21 either but there's little to get hung up on with the exception of what I would cut down or dig up and I understand and use the wisdom of going around instead of climbing over something in these circumstances.

5. After digging up stumps I would probably not move them very far, just pile the brush up from all the tree limbs on them and burn 'em. No near neighbors to complain about smoke and I learned early in life that a fire doesn't have to be big, just hot to keep the smoke down.

I have a habit of working at a pace that I won't get tired easily as I'm in my 50's. I rather enjoy working outdoors as opposed to my daily job of indoors and dealing with people and telephones most of the time in retail string instrument and repairs. I have a work shop in our store with lathe and mill which I oversee and do the tuff jobs that scare the other guys off. I "do" enjoy that when I'm not interrupted constantly.

I spent a good many years in working outdoors and so it's not new to me, I'm just getting a little slower at it. I enjoy mowing so a large tractor/mower is not needed. I'm looking at a customers '92 318 JD with less than 60 hours on it for mowing. Garage kept and all, he enjoys his bigger tractor/mower more and rarely used the JD. Maybe I can trade him a Martin guitar for it /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Your thoughts and suggestions are very good. I just hope I'm not stuck on the B21 because I like it's size and features and not looking at this project realistically. I know it will take some time and I have plenty of that (I hope). I dislike working fast and furious as that has a pot load of bad situations looking for a place to happen. I will work fast and hard if needed, but this is a project that doesn't require it.

Connortn

 

[connortn]

Sounds like I found the right place all right! Some very good questions and suggestions here. I'll try to clear some things up a bit on particulars:

1. I am in no hurry for this job to be done inside of maybe one to two years before starting construction. I have no deadlines to meet and actually look forward to enjoying the process.

2. If I run into a task bigger than the piece of equipment I'm using can handle I have a good friend that has large dozer, backhoe and larger track hole, and he's very good at what he does. I'd rather pay him to do an expert job and much quicker than I could with rented equipment.

3. I have no long term plans for the equipment after I'm through play... er, using it. Would most likely sell it (taking good care of it of course) unless I just become too attached to it.

4. I don't know the clearance of the B21 either but there's little to get hung up on with the exception of what I would cut down or dig up and I understand and use the wisdom of going around instead of climbing over something in these circumstances.

5. After digging up stumps I would probably not move them very far, just pile the brush up from all the tree limbs on them and burn 'em. No near neighbors to complain about smoke and I learned early in life that a fire doesn't have to be big, just hot to keep the smoke down.

I have a habit of working at a pace that I won't get tired easily as I'm in my 50's. I rather enjoy working outdoors as opposed to my daily job of indoors and dealing with people and telephones most of the time in retail string instrument and repairs. I have a work shop in our store with lathe and mill which I oversee and do the tuff jobs that scare the other guys off. I "do" enjoy that when I'm not interrupted constantly.

I spent a good many years in working outdoors and so it's not new to me, I'm just getting a little slower at it. I enjoy mowing so a large tractor/mower is not needed. I'm looking at a customers '92 318 JD with less than 60 hours on it for mowing. Garage kept and all, he enjoys his bigger tractor/mower more and rarely used the JD. Maybe I can trade him a Martin guitar for it /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Your thoughts and suggestions are very good. I just hope I'm not stuck on the B21 because I like it's size and features and not looking at this project realistically. I know it will take some time and I have plenty of that (I hope). I dislike working fast and furious as that has a pot load of bad situations looking for a place to happen. I will work fast and hard if needed, but this is a project that doesn't require it.

Connortn

 

[aesanders]

I couldn't imagine a Bb1 not being able to do everything you want it to do. Size wise, it is about the same size as a B3030 but heavier built. Larger hydraulic capacity as well to run the loader and backoe. It's a nice little TLB.

The other poster gave sound advise as well though. It would not hurt you finacially to get a used larger hoe and complete your project. When finished sell it for nearly what you paid for it and get something more suitable for your needs then.

Good luck

 

[aesanders]

I couldn't imagine a Bb1 not being able to do everything you want it to do. Size wise, it is about the same size as a B3030 but heavier built. Larger hydraulic capacity as well to run the loader and backoe. It's a nice little TLB.

The other poster gave sound advise as well though. It would not hurt you finacially to get a used larger hoe and complete your project. When finished sell it for nearly what you paid for it and get something more suitable for your needs then.

Good luck

 

[NC4AB]

I was in a similar situation and decided to purchased a used B21. I looked at several larger models but the b21 was a compromise for size and manuverabilty. I love the HST transmission!!

The back hoe is adequate for most tasks, it just takes time to dig out the larger stumps. The B21 turns on a dime, just remember that you have the hoe on the back or you wipe out the fence, barn, etc.

I would recommend that you rent a B21 and see if it will do what you need.

The biggest problem that I found was locating a B21 in my price range. I have put about 50 hrs on it mainly removing stumps, with no complaints at all.

 

[NC4AB]

I was in a similar situation and decided to purchased a used B21. I looked at several larger models but the b21 was a compromise for size and manuverabilty. I love the HST transmission!!

The back hoe is adequate for most tasks, it just takes time to dig out the larger stumps. The B21 turns on a dime, just remember that you have the hoe on the back or you wipe out the fence, barn, etc.

I would recommend that you rent a B21 and see if it will do what you need.

The biggest problem that I found was locating a B21 in my price range. I have put about 50 hrs on it mainly removing stumps, with no complaints at all.

 

[tractor127]

Look for a used L35 or a New L39 will get your jobs done a lot faster. The only thing I don't like about the B21 is it's low of POWER. It's ok for gradeing but with heavy loads it just doesn't have enough uuummmppphhhh. A Used L35 is a little bigger of a unit but worth it for the extra 14HP and a better bigger backhoe. I heard they are redesigning the B21 and L48 and hopefully they will add more HP to the B21 say 25-28hp and then it would be an awesome little TLB. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[tractor127]

Look for a used L35 or a New L39 will get your jobs done a lot faster. The only thing I don't like about the B21 is it's low of POWER. It's ok for gradeing but with heavy loads it just doesn't have enough uuummmppphhhh. A Used L35 is a little bigger of a unit but worth it for the extra 14HP and a better bigger backhoe. I heard they are redesigning the B21 and L48 and hopefully they will add more HP to the B21 say 25-28hp and then it would be an awesome little TLB. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[mike69440]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Look for a used L35 or a New L39 will get your jobs done a lot faster. The only thing I don't like about the B21 is it's low of POWER. It's ok for gradeing but with heavy loads it just doesn't have enough uuummmppphhhh. A Used L35 is a little bigger of a unit but worth it for the extra 14HP and a better bigger backhoe. I heard they are redesigning the B21 and L48 and hopefully they will add more HP to the B21 say 25-28hp and then it would be an awesome little TLB. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>

In My search for a TLB, I could not find a used, and I mean used B@! for under $15K.

L35's used Ran 22-26K

A New 30 HP Kioti 3054XS Tlb 30 Hp was 20K, Now about 22K (new)

So a ended up spending near 35K for a new L39.

Everyone says I could get my money back if I ever sell.

 

[mike69440]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Look for a used L35 or a New L39 will get your jobs done a lot faster. The only thing I don't like about the B21 is it's low of POWER. It's ok for gradeing but with heavy loads it just doesn't have enough uuummmppphhhh. A Used L35 is a little bigger of a unit but worth it for the extra 14HP and a better bigger backhoe. I heard they are redesigning the B21 and L48 and hopefully they will add more HP to the B21 say 25-28hp and then it would be an awesome little TLB. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>

In My search for a TLB, I could not find a used, and I mean used B@! for under $15K.

L35's used Ran 22-26K

A New 30 HP Kioti 3054XS Tlb 30 Hp was 20K, Now about 22K (new)

So a ended up spending near 35K for a new L39.

Everyone says I could get my money back if I ever sell.