Need Suggestions on Tractor for Removing Cedar Trees

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Hello. I'm buying 30 acres of land that has a LOT of small, medium and large cedar trees on it. I'm talking about hundreds of trees. My plan is to eventually remove most of them so that I can pasture about 20 - 25 acres of this land.

So I'm wondering what size tractor and FEL I need for this job, and whether a BH would be necessary (or at least handy). If the place was 5 acres, I'd just go rent a dozer for a few days. But it's 30 acres and I can only work it on weekends, so the cost of renting a dozer would probably pay for all/most of a tractor with FEL.

I grew up on a farm and have thousands of hours on tractor. But we only raised wheat, cotton and milo, and we never had a tractor with a FEL or BH. And to give you an idea of how long ago that was, we used 2 old "U" Minnies for plowing, and a Farmall 450 (with the 2-point "quick hitch") for row crop. When we finally got a John Deere 4020, I thought I had gone to heaven.

I would appreciate any help or suggestions you have.

 

[johnnyvol]

:thumbsup:Welcome to TBN!

Knowing the size of the trees would help, also the density per acre. Pics would be even better.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

There are all sizes - small ones (4' - 6') up to large ones (15' or so). I'll take some pics next time I'm there. I suspect the small ones have a base of 2" - 4" in diameter and the large ones are 6" - 10".

I don't know the density per acre, but there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of them.

My plan is to eat this elephant one bite at a time. I'll work on clearing a small area - such as an acre or two - at a time. I understand this is a long term project, and Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[k0ua]

cedar trees up to about 20 foot tall can easily be pushed over with a 35-40 horse tractor. I have pushed over a bunch of them. Make sure there have no dead limbs in them. Best time to do it is a day or 2 after a rain. The top of the ground is fairly dry, but it is still wet around the roots. Don't let the rootball come up under your tractor though.. when it starts over back off and dig up the root ball with the FEL. Some people will say to never push over a tree with a tractor.. I have pushed over hundreds. But there are dangers.. NO dead trees ever. Watch out for any dead limbs on any tree, watch out for the root ball. Don't try to push out trees that are too big. In other words, use common sense. My 35 horse Kioti, is a good tree pusher, as it is heavy. when they are pushed out, lift the root ball a few times with the FEL to knock off dirt, and back-fill the hole. You can pull over a little larger trees with trunks 6 -8 inches with a long chain and using the drawbar to position yourself 60 foot away and place the chain 6 foot high on the trunk and gently pull. I prefer a Hydrostat tractor for pulling and pushing, as it allows precise, even control of pressure on the tree. Never "ram" into anything, sneak up on it an put some pressure on it and hold it and give it time for the soil to let go. Also if it does not want to give from one direction, try other directions. Put pressure on the trunk up about 4 or 5 feet high, and you can curl a bit to put upward pressure also on the trunk and added benefit of it puts downward pressure on your front wheels for traction. Again commons sense. Don't tear up the bucket, if the tree is too big, you aint gonna rip it out. If these trees are maybe as much as 5 foot tall, you can just grind them up with a bush hog. Pictures and description of tree sizes would be a big help.

James K0UA

 

[k0ua]

There are all sizes - small ones (4' - 6') up to large ones (15' or so). I'll take some pics next time I'm there.

I don't know the density per acre, but there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of them.

My plan is to eat this elephant one bite at a time. I'll work on clearing a small area - such as an acre or two - at a time. I understand this is a long term project, and Rome wasn't built in a day.

I see you have posted the sizes.. I think they could all be pushed out with a tractor similar in size to mine, using the FEL, and the methods I have outlined in my previous post. As you mentioned it will take a while.

James K0UA

 

[radioman]

Question -- what are you planning to do with the cedar wood? Have you looked into having it milled or given away for firewood? IF you truly have alot of it - isnt there anyone interested in the wood? You might be better off buying a stump grinder on a large tractor so you can quickly get it ready for pasture as long you dont need to plow it. If you really want to follow other poster advice and push over trees, anything over 20 ft scares me, but then its just me. I'd invest in cage custom built on your tractor- might be a smart investment IF the time comes.
I admire people who clear lands themselves and making it working within their lifetime, but at the same time still find a way to go a bit green.

 

[k0ua]

The way cedar trees grow here, a 15 foot tree is just a 2 or 3 inch pole. Not any real wood.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Thank you VERY much for that. It makes a lot of sense and is great advice. I've been looking at 40 hp tractors, but was hoping I wasn't going too small.

There are native grasses on this property that I will be bush hogging, so I'd like to have enough PTO HP to run at least a 6' bush hog. My understanding is that the general rule is 5 PTO HP per 1' of mower width. Something with about 35 - 40 PTO HP would be ideal, I think.

My main concern is getting a tractor that is heavy enough to have the traction necessary to get rid of these cedar trees.

Here's a google earth shot of PART of the place. I know this pic doesn't help with the size of the trees, but it will give you an idea of the scope of the task ahead of me. A few of the trees are hardwoods, which I will leave. But the vast majority are cedars.

 

[johnnyvol]

That doesn't look too bad to me. Like you said though the trunk size can't be determined. The sizes you state should be easily cleared with the size tractor you're looking at.

I just got a Kubota L4060 HSTC. With loader and filled tires it weighs about 6300#. I've been very impressed with what I've been able to get done with it. I'd think it could do the job you're looking at.

 

[k0ua]

Go buy a Kioti Dk40se or one of the heavy LS or Mahindra tractors of if you have the money a Kubota Grand L. About a 40 horse tractor or in that range. Make sure it is a heavy tractor. You need the weight for traction.. Be sure to put ballast on the back, or a heavy duty box blade or something for weight on the 3pt. If they are all 15 foot or under, you should be able to push them all out. A grapple would be handy to both push them out and gather up the "dead bodies"

 

[Xfaxman]

This is what I use, a Bobcat V417 Versahandler. I sold my tractor after I got my first compact telehandler, a V518.
This one is smaller, just 6' wide, has a skid steer quick attach plate and aux hydraulics on the boom.
The lift height is 17 feet

Right click on picture to open in a new tab
This is an old 3 point cedar tree cutter that I adapted to the SSQA plate. Cedar stumps don't grow back after being cut.


The stump bucket.


The Gorilla Grapple.


For smaller trees, up to 4", the Long Arm Tree Puller.

 

[ovrszd]

If at all possible, pull the trees, don't cut them off. You don't want an acreage of stumps left when done.

I would suggest a 40hp/3500lb tractor range. It will dig them out with the FEL but it'll be slow. You'll also move a lot of dirt that will have to be releveled when done.

What works best is a tree puller on the FEL. Not sure of your location and what's available in your area, but you might find a place that will rent you a tree puller.

The tractor will need either 3rd function hydraulics on the loader or one set of rear remotes to run the hydraulics of the puller. I would further suggest to you that since you are buying a tractor, get the 3rd function hydraulics on the loader. Also get at least two sets of rear remotes, three if possible. You are going to need them in the future for other projects.

Here is a picture of my previous 44hp tractor holding a Cedar that it pulled with my tree puller. After I pull a tree free, I shake it several times to get rid of all the dirt I can so I don't leave a large hole. In my geographical area it works best in early Spring after the soil has been heaved loose by Winter frost. I like the dirt to be on the dry side so most of it shakes off the root ball. If clearing a large area I carry them as far as I logically can and then start a pile for burning later.



The tree puller is also handy if removing any old fence posts.





Here's some more shots of the puller in action and closeups.







All the cedar trees on your property will shudder in fear when you drive in with a good tractor and tree puller.

 

[ovrszd]

As I said earlier, you'll want extra hydraulics on the tractor to run all sorts of attachments as your project grows. Here's another attachment that'll pay for itself pretty quick on your new acreage. It's called a Grapple. You can search on TBN and see all sorts of variations. I built this one one a used Bobcat bucket that I bought. Again, you need 3rd function hydraulics on your loader to run things like this.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Xfaxman and Ovrszd, I can only sit and drool at Xfax's Bobcat and Ovrszd's tree puller. I've seen stump bucket attachments before, but never a tree puller.

Ovrszd, I'm amazed that so many modern tractors don't come with rear remotes. Back on the farm 40 years ago, all of our tractors had rear remotes (usually 2 sets), because we had a lot of pull-type equipment (chisels, one-ways, offset disks, etc.) that required a hydraulic cylinder for height control.

And I'm also amazed at how expensive they are to add as an option.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

That doesn't look too bad to me. Like you said though the trunk size can't be determined. The sizes you state should be easily cleared with the size tractor you're looking at.

I just got a Kubota L4060 HSTC. With loader and filled tires it weighs about 6300#. I've been very impressed with what I've been able to get done with it. I'd think it could do the job you're looking at.

I was always taught that it was rude to ask someone what they paid for something, so let me just ask you what price range I would be looking at for the L4060 HSTC like yours. The idea of a cab appeals to me because I figure I can put more hours in the seat if I'm not roasting or freezing or fighting off skeeters and bees.

 

[ovrszd]

Xfaxman and Ovrszd, I can only sit and drool at Xfax's Bobcat and Ovrszd's tree puller. I've seen stump bucket attachments before, but never a tree puller.

Ovrszd, I'm amazed that so many modern tractors don't come with rear remotes. Back on the farm 40 years ago, all of our tractors had rear remotes (usually 2 sets), because we had a lot of pull-type equipment (chisels, one-ways, offset disks, etc.) that required a hydraulic cylinder for height control.

And I'm also amazed at how expensive they are to add as an option.

Again, not knowing your situation in detail, I suggest you buy a tractor on the large size, rather than a smaller one hoping to get by. In my case my needs changed and grew. Last year I sold my 44hp tractor and bought my current 95hp model. More than the HP gained, the weight gained was most beneficial. So, within reason, I'd suggest buying the largest tractor your budget will allow. My 44hp model was a new tractor, two years old as a carry-over on the dealers lot. I paid $18,500 for it and used the snot out of it. My current tractor was also purchased new and it cost $43,500. When you start shopping you'll figure all this out. I'm not pimping Kubota at all, but their website ( Kubota Tractor Corporation ) has a "build your own" feature that allows you to spec and price everything they offer. Let's you compare HP and weight in the different models as well as luxury features versus basic tractor features. When pricing, the price you'll likely pay at a dealer will be 85% of what's listed on the website. A lot of other manufacturers offer this feature beyond Kubota. I suggest spending hours online shopping and comparing. You can also learn a lot of valuable information on this website digging around thru the various forums.

As for hydraulics and rear remotes, I agree. My 44hp tractor didn't come with any rear remotes. The 95hp model came with one. I added the 3rd function hydraulics on the loaders of both tractors. I added two remotes on the smaller tractor and now have three remotes on the current model. As an example of uses, when I have my Grapple or Tree Puller on the loader I am using the 3rd function. When I also have my rear Box Blade with hydraulic retractable scarifier on the back I am using all three rear remotes. The more hydraulics you can get the more uses you'll find for your tractor.

I look forward to reading of your adventures. I love to watch people spend money and grow!!!! Good Luck!!!!

 

[ovrszd]

I was always taught that it was rude to ask someone what they paid for something, so let me just ask you what price range I would be looking at for the L4060 HSTC like yours. The idea of a cab appeals to me because I figure I can put more hours in the seat if I'm not roasting or freezing or fighting off skeeters and bees.

Yeah, some people get all weird about that, like you're being nosey or something. Never seems that way to me. I'll always tell you what I paid for my stuff. Ain't like it's a big secret or something.

I was just trying to remember exactly what I paid for my add-on hydraulics. I think it was around $700 to add a rear remote. I'm also thinking it was around $1200 for the 3rd function hydraulics on the loader. Others might chime in with a more accurate cost.

 

[MRSDOUGLAS]

Hey Pappy, Sounds like you are in a very similar situation to what we have, acreage NE of Dallas with lots of cedars. We have found our Kubota L5740 to be just about perfect. We did get the extra remotes to run the grapple and 3 sets of rear remotes on the back to add Top n tilt later and possibly a batwing. We got a 6' brushhog and even just mowing the 15 or so acres around the trailer takes some time. The grapple has been great for working brush piles and moving the downed cedars around. Although after reading this thread I'm a little envious of the tree puller! It sounds like you have way more experience with tractors than we did but don't go too small! I had to be talked into this tractor but it is amazing how small they get when they are out of the showroom and on your land.

Hello. I'm buying 30 acres of land that has a LOT of small, medium and large cedar trees on it. I'm talking about hundreds of trees. My plan is to eventually remove most of them so that I can pasture about 20 - 25 acres of this land.

So I'm wondering what size tractor and FEL I need for this job, and whether a BH would be necessary (or at least handy). If the place was 5 acres, I'd just go rent a dozer for a few days. But it's 30 acres and I can only work it on weekends, so the cost of renting a dozer would probably pay for all/most of a tractor with FEL.

I grew up on a farm and have thousands of hours on tractor. But we only raised wheat, cotton and milo, and we never had a tractor with a FEL or BH. And to give you an idea of how long ago that was, we used 2 old "U" Minnies for plowing, and a Farmall 450 (with the 2-point "quick hitch") for row crop. When we finally got a John Deere 4020, I thought I had gone to heaven.

I would appreciate any help or suggestions you have.

 

[ovrszd]

Hey Pappy, Sounds like you are in a very similar situation to what we have, acreage NE of Dallas with lots of cedars. We have found our Kubota L5740 to be just about perfect. We did get the extra remotes to run the grapple and 3 sets of rear remotes on the back to add Top n tilt later and possibly a batwing. We got a 6' brushhog and even just mowing the 15 or so acres around the trailer takes some time. The grapple has been great for working brush piles and moving the downed cedars around. Although after reading this thread I'm a little envious of the tree puller! It sounds like you have way more experience with tractors than we did but don't go too small! I had to be talked into this tractor but it is amazing how small they get when they are out of the showroom and on your land.

Now right there is an honest assessment!!!!

I built my tree puller but it seems the boughten V design models are going for around $1600. I couldn't find one that was built strong enough to suit me which is why I built it. I'd say any local metal shop would build you one braced and reinforced as you wish for the $1600 or less.

 

[Xfaxman]

...................

There are native grasses on this property that I will be bush hogging, so I'd like to have enough PTO HP to run at least a 6' bush hog. My understanding is that the general rule is 5 PTO HP per 1' of mower width. Something with about 35 - 40 PTO HP would be ideal, I think.

My main concern is getting a tractor that is heavy enough to have the traction necessary to get rid of these cedar trees.

.................

Since you mentioned bush hogging, This is the 7' rotary mower that I use. Out front where you can see what you are cutting!


The V417 is a 2009 model, was a demo with 44 hours, paid $52,000, delivered, in September, 2010. It has about 630 hours now.

But you get what you pay for, this machine will lift over 5,000 pounds 17 feet high, push or pull its self out of any stuck in the mud situation and does everything I would need a tractor for. I have owned several tractors during my 73 years, so I have a good basis of comparison.