Need to run electric for NINE water trough heaters

[GPintheMitten]

Well, thanks for all the suggestions guys. We are going to go with the original layout but will be using 6 Awg wire. We will most likely use conduit and pull THHN, rather than go direct burial wire.

For the "right side" were are going to pull 4 wires to the first trough and three beyond that. For the "left side" there are 5 heaters so we will pull 5 wires (3 hots, nuetral and ground).

We have ordered another service drop from the power company that will be placed at the existing barn on a corner nearest where the future barn will go. We'll probably go with a 200 amp service there, maybe more.

I'll be renting a large ditch witch with a vibrating plow to bury the water line 4' deep. Like this:

Quad | Trencher | RT115 Quad | Ditch Witch

For the wire, we want a 2 foot bury and will rent something a little smaller, although I haven't decided yet whether to use a trencher or plow with flexible conduit.

 

[drizler]

My question is why so many heaters? Man this sounds like a major PITA. We have done this dance for years in Northern NY and get by with a single 100 gallon Rubbermaid tub just fine. 1 heater 1250 also works just fine even last year when it was brutal. We refill every 3 days give or take and that was with 6 of the useless vermin sucking that warm water down like it was tea . Ours last year outside the new barn was run off 150' extension cord rig just plugged together. Half assed but worked fine and dandy. The thing with ours is that they all are in together. We just leave them come and go into the big single pasture as we always have. That keeps the horsechit factor way down too. Funny, so many people feel the horses are being abused if left outside in the winter to the point of calling the cops. In fact they prefer winter outside and spend a lot more time inside when the bugs are around.
If you have a back hoe there is also a trick they use in Montana at the far flung pastures for cattle. They dig a deep hole and fill it with crushed stone which some way keeps it from freezing. You'd have to look up the specifics though as I never had a hoe until a week ago so was never interested but if it works in Montana it should be fine for us. I might even look into that myself now that I have a hoe and am looking for something to do with it:licking:
Whatever you choose to do good luck with all those nags. Personally I never saw any animal that is so prone to break down , sickness and death as a horse, just one constant medical expense and with Lyme disease becoming so prevalent recently its oh so much worse. Since the company that makes the cheap antibiotic quit making it(doxycycline) in 2010 the price for the big bottle for horse treatment went from $60 to $900.

 

[boggen]

Well, thanks for all the suggestions guys. We are going to go with the original layout but will be using 6 Awg wire. We will most likely use conduit and pull THHN, rather than go direct burial wire.

For the "right side" were are going to pull 4 wires to the first trough and three beyond that. For the "left side" there are 5 heaters so we will pull 5 wires (3 hots, nuetral and ground).

We have ordered another service drop from the power company that will be placed at the existing barn on a corner nearest where the future barn will go. We'll probably go with a 200 amp service there, maybe more.

I'll be renting a large ditch witch with a vibrating plow to bury the water line 4' deep. Like this:

Quad | Trencher | RT115 Quad | Ditch Witch

For the wire, we want a 2 foot bury and will rent something a little smaller, although I haven't decided yet whether to use a trencher or plow with flexible conduit.

vibrating plow... that much length.... ya bound to hit tree roots, and larger rocks? i would imagine ya going to need to get a backhoe or excavator, to work your way around the roots and larger rocks. along with getting up nice and close to certain areas were you simply can't not drive up and over. (up against a shed or like) while i am all fore vibrating plow. just saying, plan a head some for what may come up.

open up the old paper phone book (vs internet) and look up "equipment rental" call around up to a couple hours away, prices can range by the extreme. double check on length of time, some offer a good discount for multi days to week long rentals. be careful if you ask for delivery of rental machinery, it may mean waiting entire day for rental machine to show up. vs time it would of meant of just going and picking it up (assuming you have truck/trailer) able to haul the stuff back to the property.

a mini ex (mini excavator) more so a little tracked unit. allowing you to get into tight spaces and get the trenches finished off (both digging and refilling the trenches)

with both wire and water.... i might advise getting some (good clean fill dirt) just in case you come across some ugly areas full of rocks or like, that might cause a leak to happen (rocks and like puncturing the pipes and/or wires)

if ya putting in frost free hydrants, make sure you have enough "drainage rock" on hand. maybe a little more, 1 gallon to 2 gallon jugs, is what i tossed over the bottoms of frost free hydrants. (upside down funnels in a sense) to make sure the bottom drainage outlet, doesn't get clogged. along with some window screen (already had it on hand) to keep the rocks in bottom from clogging up with dirt/mud.

make sure you have enough fittings and metal pipe coming up out of the ground for your electrical.

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make sure to bury a small little wire with water line, so at later date you can come back and find it. ((to early in morning to remember technical name for the testing wire thing)) i have also used yellow caution tape, placed approx 1 foot below ground as well and i left the caution tape in a mess of zig zagging back and forth. that way when bucket of what ever machine hits that area. i know to back off when i see the caution tape dangling from the bucket. vs busted wire or water line.

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this notation more likely meaningless for your doings, and that is pulling an extra pull wire along with main wires, so if need be you can re pull wire or another wire in the hose / pipes. at some later date.

 

[ace10]

My $0.02

This feels like the classic case of champagne taste with a beer budget. Your daughter wants the very best... We all can understand that, but it would appear that this comes at a very great cost. Were it me giving counsel, I would remind of the big picture of needing/wanting a new barn, and a project of this scope is simply going to push that further down the road. Due to upfront capital and recurring operating costs.

Scale it back. Get the barn built sooner.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Yah, I know guys. I'm as effective at changing her mind today as I was 25 years ago


But in reality, the horses she boards are expensive animals. She has most of them in their own paddocks / pastures, with some with 2 horses together. The clients she has are definitely in the champagne frame of mind. They come fairly good distances to be with her and take lessons from her because frankly she is that good. The clients ride probably 5-6 times a week. It would be a big problem if a horse got hurt in a herd situation.

Granted she does not have the champagne budget yet but she has more money in savings than I do. Sure I'm trying to do this as economically as possible but we still need to get it right. If she can't build the barn this fall, she'll get it done the following year.

As to tree roots etc. There are none. It's been open field tilled farm land for many years converted to pasture grass a couple of years ago. I'm bringing my Kubota B2620 with the BH65 backhoe for the close work.

Clean fill is a good idea and we'll get a few yards if we decide to open a trench rather than plow everything.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I probably never made it clear but she has about 16 horses and occasionally more. Once she has all the facilities in she will have more.

 

[5030]

We run a large boarding stable so I understand somewhat. However, we consolidate turnouts in the winter and run just 2 heated tanks. Your daughter's electric bill will surpass what her boarders are paying in stall rent. I know what DTE's rates are, I live in Michigan too. Typically, it costs about 40 bucks a month per heater. Average stall rent in Michigan with daily turnout and routine grooming is about $350 a month per horse. Wack of 40 for juice and another hundred or so for forage and grain and another h couple undred for the real estate and equipment, you don't have much left for the overheads, let alone any profit.

Actually why I got in the custom forage business years ago. I sell the forage to the boarding stable so we get it both ways, stall rent and hay sales with a captive audience.

Our barn cost a bit over 275 grand, 15 years ago, thats for 15 stalls and an indoor arena and I did the finish work inside.

It appears your daughter has big ideas on a small pocketbook.

 

[GPintheMitten]

What's the size of her pocketbook?

 

[5030]

What's the size of her pocketbook?

Pretty obvious to me that her 'pocketbook' encompasses your wallet as well. I quit floating my son's boat after I put him through law school. He floats his own boat now. Case Western wasn't a cheap date.

So tell me, who pays the monster electric bill when it comes? You know that DTE has installed 'Smart Meters' throughout their service area to monitor excessive usage among other varibles. Just because you can pay the fare don't always mean the bus is available.

Personally (just my opinion, nothing more) I think you need to step back and take a long look at being dad' or being the bank. Being dad is much better and saying 'You need to do this yourself and priorotize your needs and wants won't diminsih how she looks at you, in fact, in may earn some respect.

I understand your position, been there and done that. Sometimes, it's better to take a more objective approach, but then, you may be flush too, however, if you were, you'd just hire it dine and never have posted anything on this site in the first place.

 

[dave1949]

What's the size of her pocketbook?

Exactly.

I don't understand the several posters here more or less criticizing the daughter and OP about funds. The daughter is training people with champagne budgets to ride, and caring for their animals. She is aiming at a specific market and needs the facilities to go with that. You don't sell Cadillacs out of a shed. :laughing:

The layout of the watering is designed to fit future needs. Doing it once correctly is the least expensive way in the long run. Doing it the most economical way is how people who have money keep it.

I think it suffices to give an estimate of the electric costs and let people make their own decisions. Expense is always relative.