New considering custom bailing

[Robert_in_NY]

I know a DOT number is required and M/C isn't required. The vehicle can and will be farm tagged under what duffster looked up
Farm vehicle driver means a person who drives only a commercial motor vehicle that is
(a) Controlled and operated by a farmer as a private motor carrier of property;
(b) Being used to transport either
(1) Agricultural products, or
(2) Farm machinery, farm supplies, or both, to or from a farm;
(c) Not being used in the operation of a for-hire motor carrier;
(d) Not carrying hazardous materials of a type or quantity that requires the commercial motor
vehicle to be placarded in accordance with ｧ177.823 of this subtitle; and
(e) Being used within 150 air miles of the farmer's farm.

I am thinking that is if your working your own farm/farms. If your working on someone elses farm as a custom operator then you are no longer a farmer, your a private contractor and thus a commercial operation. You can disagree all you want but the only way you will know for sure you are doing it right is to contact the people in charge and ask them yourself. Then they will tell you if you need to worry or not.

Good luck.

 

[Duffster]

I know a DOT number is required and M/C isn't required. The vehicle can and will be farm tagged under what duffster looked up
Farm vehicle driver means a person who drives only a commercial motor vehicle that is
(a) Controlled and operated by a farmer as a private motor carrier of property;
(b) Being used to transport either
(1) Agricultural products, or
(2) Farm machinery, farm supplies, or both, to or from a farm;
(c) Not being used in the operation of a for-hire motor carrier;
(d) Not carrying hazardous materials of a type or quantity that requires the commercial motor
vehicle to be placarded in accordance with ｧ177.823 of this subtitle; and
(e) Being used within 150 air miles of the farmer's farm.

I think you forgot "(a)".

I am thinking that is if your working your own farm/farms. If your working on someone elses farm as a custom operator then you are no longer a farmer, your a private contractor and thus a commercial operation. You can disagree all you want but the only way you will know for sure you are doing it right is to contact the people in charge and ask them yourself. Then they will tell you if you need to worry or not.

Good luck.

How does the old saying go? "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

 

[Cline bailing]

It would be private motor carrier I'm not hauling for anyone else just myself. So far you have failed to prove your point but helped me prove mine.

 

[Duffster]

Like I said, Good Luck.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

It would be private motor carrier I'm not hauling for anyone else just myself. So far you have failed to prove your point but helped me prove mine.

You would be hauling for yourself but for commercial reasons, not farm reasons

 

[Cline bailing]

You can say what you want in Oklahoma thats how everyone does it. I still wonder how people can't even stay on the subject what size hay bales are people buying I know I like 5x5 but I've heard a lot ore going to 4x6?

Thanks sweettractors and Bird for your info.
Thank you Schmism for giving me something to think about.

I will probably do a 4ft with adjustable chamber baler if anyone has a size suggestion please give it to me. THANK YOU.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You can say what you want in Oklahoma thats how everyone does it. I still wonder how people can't even stay on the subject what size hay bales are people buying I know I like 5x5 but I've heard a lot ore going to 4x6?

Thanks sweettractors and Bird for your info.
Thank you Schmism for giving me something to think about.

I will probably do a 4ft with adjustable chamber baler if anyone has a size suggestion please give it to me. THANK YOU.

Why don't you talk to your prospective customers and get their input. It does no good for anyone else to tell you what they use if the people in your area want something different. Have you talked to any prospective customers yet?

In my area no one really wants round bales except for small farms with cows. All the horse farms want small squares and large dairy farms do large squares. Round bales are not too common and all the custom baling guys do large squares, don't know of anyone that does small squares except for me but I don't do much custom baling for anyone but the people I know well.

 

[jenkinsph]

Why don't you talk to your prospective customers and get their input. It does no good for anyone else to tell you what they use if the people in your area want something different. Have you talked to any prospective customers yet?

.

I agree, better to make decisions based on the locals you will be dealing with. Find out what their preferences are, it is much easier to sell them what they wan't.

Transporting hay is where you will have 95% of the regulations to deal with and this part of your operation will be the most competitively priced. With a limited budget you may be better off letting someone else deal with this part and focus on what you need to do the haying work and moving your equipment.

 

[sweettractors]

Here in Ky, the custom balers offer net wrap and not wrapped. If a farmer has inside storage facilities, he would probably like to save a couple $ per bale to have non wrapped bales made. Just a thought. Ken Sweet

 

[Bird]

The hay baling I did was all with twine, and some experimenting proved that some brands and types of twine was much better than others. The guy I was working with later said he wished he'd had the baler equipped for wrap instead. It was a Gehl baler. Our other friend in the hay business had all John Deere equipment and only used the wrap, no twine. And back then, they said it cost about a dollar a bale more to do the wrap instead of the twine. Is that still the case?

 

[matt21]

I've done custom baling in Oklahoma for 3 years now and know several other people who do custom baling. We all use 4x6 net wrap balers. Some people want a full 4x6 and some even want 4x4. Most of what I do is 4x5.5 weighing in at about 1200 lbs. I have never had anyone ask for twine.

 

[dmay]

I think the best thing to do is to ask your potential customers. Ask what they prefer for bale size. Ask what tractor/loader size and capacity they have. If your potential customers have smaller tractors and therefor need small round bales and you go big and heavy then you immediately loose them as potential customers.

 

[mlauk]

You can say what you want in Oklahoma thats how everyone does it. I still wonder how people can't even stay on the subject what size hay bales are people buying I know I like 5x5 but I've heard a lot ore going to 4x6?

I will probably do a 4ft with adjustable chamber baler if anyone has a size suggestion please give it to me. THANK YOU.

Most people like 4 foot wide for transporting and staying under the 102" width regulation. Farmers in Texas can get an overwidth permit for $10 a year if you have to haul 5x5's next to each other. If you get a 4x6, you can always bale 4x4, 4x5 and 4x6. People with smaller tractors can handle the smaller bales better.

A custom baler I knew around here just set up customers and drove his tractor from field to field and cut/baled if he was in your area.

 

[tubewelder87]

It is only FARM USE if the equipment is being used in the daily activities on YOUR FARM. Any other use is considered COMMERCIAL.

that is not the way the laws are here in oklahoma. I have ran a custom wheat cutting business in southwest oklahoma for 7 years now and have always had farm insurance and paid taxes on the farm although i only have 20 acres of pasture land and 3 horses. in oklahoma when you become a farm you can use your equipment to make money no matter whos farm you are on just and keep all the same insurance as long as you stay within 150 miles of home. as for the size of the bales i would go with 5 by 5. and also buy you a good older idiot block baler. by that i mean 2x2x4. there are alot of people that will have good pasture that will feed alot of cows and like 3 horses and need about two hundred little bales too. Just something to think about? this baler doesnt have to be a shiny new one, just something that will work when you need it. And also offer a better surface for the customer so the feel like you are taking care of them. I offer straw baling after i cut wheat if they need a little straw bedding. Kinda a pain but i have the tractor there for the grain cart all i do is throw the baler on a trailer and do it as soon as i finish the field. this alone has kept me several jobs for the last few years. I have a little higher prices than the big crews but they dont have to worry about who is gona bale the straw.

 

[ModMech]

What is a USDOT Number? - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

Quote:
Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle (1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or

http://www.dps.state.ok.us/ohp/SFarm.pdf

Part 390.5: Definitions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

:thumbsup:

1) He can avoid highways
2) He will NOT be involved in INTERSTATE COMMERCE
3) He will not be transporting persons or property (in interstate commerce) any more than a person who worked fields and drove a class A RV will.

 

[Duffster]

1) He can avoid highways

OK :confused2:

2) He will NOT be involved in INTERSTATE COMMERCE

Notice that OK has the same requirements for intrAstate commerce as the feds do for interstate commerce.

What is a USDOT Number? - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

3) He will not be transporting persons or property (in interstate commerce) any more than a person who worked fields and drove a class A RV will.

When hauling equipment for doing custom work he will be transporting in intrastate commerce just like any other private carrier.

 

[ModMech]

OK :confused2:

When hauling equipment for doing custom work he will be transporting in intrastate commerce just like any other private carrier.

No.

Commerce is TRANSPORTING persons or goods for SOMEONE ELSE. If it were any other way, EVERYONE who carried anything for their job in a vehicle would qualify as commercial use and CLEARLY that is not the case.

 

[Duffster]

No.

Commerce is TRANSPORTING persons or goods for SOMEONE ELSE.

Wrong.

A contractor towing a trailer hauling his OWN property is still operating in commerce.

Interstate commerce means trade, traffic, or transportation

If it were any other way, EVERYONE who carried anything for their job in a vehicle would qualify as commercial use and CLEARLY that is not the case.

Just because a vehicle is used in business doesn't mean it is a CMV. The OP's truck would clearly be a CMV.

Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle
(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater;

While I am at it here is the definition of Highway.

Highway means any road, street, or way, whether on public or private property, open to public travel

 

[ModMech]

If a contractor is moving his or her OWN equipment then they do not need a CDL nor are considered to be in "commercial transportation" unless they cross state lines (in most states).

Also, contractors are considered commercial transportation because they are effectively selling things they carry (lumber, nails, misc construction materials). At some level even weekend racers are "commercial" because they are hpoing (trying) to win money. However, that is the IRS definition and not the idea of the DOT.

By your definition and explanation, a 18 YO boy going to his parents summer cabin towing their 32' cruiser behine a 1 ton p/u with a lawn mower in the back is "commercial" since he will cut his neighbors grass. That's not even wrong it is so far off base.

 

[Duffster]

If a contractor is moving his or her OWN equipment then they do not need a CDL nor are considered to be in "commercial transportation" unless they cross state lines (in most states).

I never said they need a CDL. But they would if they are towing at trailer over 10k, and the combo is over 26k or the truck alone is over 26k.

Besides a very few odd states, CDL requirements do not change between intra and interstate use.

More states than don't have the same requirements as the feds for USDOT number requirements, this includes OK, WI and TX.

Also, contractors are considered commercial transportation because they are effectively selling things they carry (lumber, nails, misc construction materials). At some level even weekend racers are "commercial" because they are hpoing (trying) to win money. However, that is the IRS definition and not the idea of the DOT.

They are in commerce even just hauling there own tools, they would be considered a "private motor carrier".

Private motor carrier means a person who provides transportation of property or passengers, by commercial motor vehicle, and is not a for-hire motor carrier.

And yes guys hauling race cars are considered commercial use, at least here, some truly are CMVs and some aren't.

By your definition and explanation, a 18 YO boy going to his parents summer cabin towing their 32' cruiser behine a 1 ton p/u with a lawn mower in the back is "commercial" since he will cut his neighbors grass. That's not even wrong it is so far off base.

While being an extreme example, yes it technically would be a CMV. But there is a big difference between a kid doing the neighbor a favor for some side cash and a guy hauling tractors and hay balers doing custom work.