New fence to keep people out

[Tig]

You bring up a good point. When I used to take trespassers to task they all gave the same explanation, "But I always fish here." We would then discuss my no trespassing signs. Which would just be more aggravation for me.
Nowadays I just say "This is private property, please leave" and then I go about my business and let them leave with some dignity. There is no discussion. Since I started doing that I've had no grief or repeat offenders.

 

[jenkinsph]

Tig's method should work reasonably well.

But I think the crazy man approach with the shotgun would be more fun. I like the electric fence method the best though and it is a cheap solution too.

 

[Tig]

It works for me, but I have a much smaller area to cover and I can see the main area of concern. That being said, word does spread and it gets easier.
I tried a more aggressive approach at one time. It really pissed people off. One day I came close to tossing a repeat offender in the lake. I caught myself in time and later rethought my approach. I spoke to him once the next year and he has not been back. Just my experience.

 

[two_bit_score]

There's no way I could be held responsabile for that. Anyway, they mostly pick just one easy to identify kind, and destroy the rest, mushrooms or whatever. You won't find a single mushroom standing.

I'm a couple hundred miles from Barcelona, and I do get people from there. It's probably around 4 hours drive.

It's not unusual to see over 50 people at once on the property.



Not enough signs (1 or 2). I will put one every 25 meters or so. Experience in other villages show that signs alone reduce people by 80%. There will be signs mentioning that tresspasing and muchroom picking are not allowed.

I also plan to anulate most parking places with big stones. That will also make it a bit more difficult.

Yes, I will have to patrol the property a lot. I'll have to move there at the start of the season.

In this area, people were very happy with the invasion. They thought that many people = prosperity = money. They start to realize that people is not equal to money but to problems. What you want is few people that spend lots of money, not millions that only leave trash and problems.

They also complain they can hardly make a living, but can't realize that mushrooms are their most valuable asset. Wish I could convince a couple and sell the mushrooms. I might even hire somebody to do so (I can't pick muchrooms for long due to physical problems).

I'm thinking 'crow cannons' might help for a while at least.

 

[Jstpssng]

I'm with radioman. How determined are these people, and is there a concern of potential danger to them or you? ...besides the liability issue.


...As for personal attention, I don't condone this, but a friend of mine was shot with rocksalt as a boy while stealing apples; this method has a VERY low recidivism rate.

An orchard near where I grew up utilised this method... until the owner's son served 2 years for assault with a deadly weapon. People don't realise (or care?) how much farmers lose to theft every year.

Personally I HATE barbed wire. It's nasty stuff that keeps working long after the purpose is gone. The orchard I keep pruned had 8 feet of page wire topped with barbed wire back in WWI; the page wire is long gone but last year I cut down a 14 foot lenth of barbed wire that had grown into 2 trees, 8 feet off the ground.

 

[Steve C]

I've got cattle with a 1 meter, 4 rows barbed wire, posts (metal angles) at 4 meters ... built to a very low standar. Enough for animals, but have real problems with too many people gettin trepassing.

I can legally make it 1.6 meters high, so my plan is to upgrade it with high tensile barbed wire, 7 rows with wood posts. I plan to put a wooden post between each existing metal post. That will make it one post for each 4 meters for top 3 wires, and one for each 2 meters for bottom ones. As time goes by, I will replace lower wires with high tensile ones.

Project is for about 3500 linear meters.

Another option is using mesh, but I find it too easy to climb.

In your experience which fences deter people more?

"weed chopper" electric fence. Nobody in their right mind will mess with one of them. I saw a bird land on the wire and it pecked at a bug that was on top of the wet wooden pole. It vaporized both of its legs in a puff of smoke. The feet stayed clamped to the wire and his beak was embeded in the wooden pole. That sure got my attention, I was sure to stay far away from that one.

 

[ilex]

Russian Olive!!

That would grow well here, but I don't want it to scape, which it would do. This are is too rich to take the risk.

If I could, I would use honey locust, it does make great hedges and cattle love the beans. I'm afraid it would also scape. In drier ground I could plant cylindropuntia tunicata or relative, but I won't as it's the definition of invasive species.

This will be inside a natural reserve very soon, so planting anything that's not native is very tricky. I love the place and plants, so I would feel very bad if I plant anything that scapes.

 

[ilex]

We gotta be real here, folks.

We are talking about PEOPLE... the cleverest, most determined and destructive critter there is.

If they want to, they will.

So, gotta change their "want to."

Suggest a plan to create fear and anxiety in their mind...so they will "want to" go somewhere else and not on your place.

A fence will not stop them...not from entering the USA or leaving the USSR..

Great post.

Yes, that's the plan. Make it clear that it's difficult and not worth it, so they move someplace else. They come here to enjoy a day in the woods, so most will move away if they don't enjoy the stay. The problem is with those that will resist and will try to defend "their" place. They'll try to make it difficult for me so I'm the one to desist.

Use a single strand of high tensile wire and T posts to mark the boundary of your property. This can be taught barb wire or smooth. Use plastic insulators and a high impedance electric charger back at your house/shed which puts about 8 to 9 thousand volts on the line for short periods. Yes, they can go under or over it if they want to but you have marked your space.

Assume they are literate...Use the wire to hang signs on at intervals where you can never approach the fence without seeing at least one.

Sign should properly worded for legal notification for the country indicating trespassing is illegal, the property within the fence is private according to ..give number of applicable law..looks intimidating, and that hidden traps, poison and hunting are used within the property to control undesirable animals. (In Texas this is required when trapping/poisoning coyotes. You may not have coyotes there, but you do have undesirable people/animals). This way, you have marked your property boundary and given fair notice so you can prosecute as desired.

Sounds very well. I won't use the trap/poison part, though.

Now, you can also walk out there when you see vehicles parked and wander around shooting into the trees...suggest a 12gauge shotgun... makes noise as pellets rip thru tree tops... this is called aversion training....talk to yourself gesticulate and fire rounds in random direction...giving the appearance that you are completely daft. After doing this a few times, word of mouth that this is now a dangerous place should reduce the number of people mushroom hunting there.

I will really think about this. Most part of the mushroom hunting season is inside the real hunting season, so I could walk around with a gun hunting birds in my property.

In the early days when Texas was part of Mexico, a person claimed property by tearing up grass, throwing it into the air and shouting "this is my land!" This ceremony was witnessed by local folks. The new owner did this at all the boundaries of his land. Something similar may be lurking in the collective unconscious of the trespassers... perhaps you can escort them to the edge and perform this ceremony

With as many as 50 people there at once...there are a HUGE number of folks who are accustomed to coming there and considering it their mushroom field, so will take some time for word to get around that it is now dangerous and they are unwelcome there.

Yes, this is going to be tough and long.

It is hard to argue rationally with people who are trespassing, just ends up with you madder and them convinced you are unreasonable and they see it as a challenge to return without your awareness. Suggest you just behave in a crazy manner without approaching the people, just shoot over their heads , just instill fear into them so they leave the property voluntarily fearing for their own safety.

Best wishes... let us know how it goes... tough problem dealing with people's long held customs and practices...really, really tough...

I've got experience, and I know very well that you can't argue. You must be like a robot "this is private property, please leave" with a calmed and firm voice. Once I legally can, I will add "police is coming, if you don't leave fast you will be fined for trespassing". If you argue you enter their field, if you don't, they usually get tired and desist.

I don't want to fight people physically. To start, they come in groups, and they have knives on their hands. It's also not very clever to fight somebody who you don't know. He could be much better than you.

Behaving like mad is a good idea, from a distance. My grandpa used it, and it worked. He used to fire at air with a gun. Everybody knew it was better to go someplace else.

 

[chrisdvorak]

i put up 2 strand electric lines around my fence to keep the cows in and that thing has a real good bite that will knock you down if you don't notice it, if you do decide to put up some sort of electric fence up be shure to put signs everywhere saying danger electric fence because there will always be the people that walk onto your property without asking to pet your cows and do not realize that it is an electric fence....

 

[texasjohn]

ilex, I think you have the right attitude and understanding for the best possible outcome...over the long haul.

Forgot to mention..... with one strand of barb wire (rather than two), it can only get tangled up with brush. If you have two, they will get tangled together.

There is a magic height for a single wire... just high enough to make people worry about stepping over it (Spaniards are a little shorter on average than Anglos, thus this point is a little lower to the ground). Getting crotch caught with an electric barb wire is certainly something to remember. Don't ask me how I KNOW This same height is low enough that a person MUST lay flat on the ground to roll under it.

I have been to Spain. I know that cactus is native there... you can scatter/plant prickly pear cactus right under and along the fence line.... over time, it should grow together and form a better barrier than a hedge... and all you have to do to fix holes in the barrier is to break off a pad and place it in the open space...give it a year...there will be no hole there It is cheap, too, planting is easy, what is not to like about it as a barrier. And, it is native

I like your attitude of not mixing it up with 50 people with knives..... but all of them will pause and consider avoidance measures when approached by a shotgun-wielding, shooting-in-the-air, crazy acting fellow pulling grass, examining it carefully, then tossing it in the air and exclaiming,

"GRACIAS A DIOS, ESTE ES MI TIERRA, ES EL MUNDO MIO, NADIE SE MOLESTO!" Punctuate this with a shot when you know you are being observed and wish to emphasize your attitude

For added effect, and to insure communications, you can variously use Catalan, Spanish, Portuguese, English and whatever other languages/idioms you may know. Come to think of it, this can be accompanied with your own version of the Maori War Chant.

http://www.bloodandmud.com/2008/11/rugby-video-mao.html

Best wishes...oh, yes, when your war dance is perfected, please post for us to see