New grapple is loose. Need help.

[houser52]

I got my new grapple last week and just got the diverter mounted and plumbed a couple days ago.

Yesterday evening when looking over everything I noticed that the grapple is loose when the latching pins are locked down. They are not even contacting the grapple's bottom plate, with a gap all the way around the pins. There's also a gap underneath the loader's attach plate and the grapple's mounting plate but the size of that gap depends on which way the grappled is positioned, dumped/curled, lifting weight, down pressure, etc. The gap ranges from nothing to 5/16".

From what I can find on TBN this is fairly common with some grapples and shims can be added to fix the problem. I've already contacted the manufacturer and have both 3/16' and 1/4" shims on the way so I can fix the problem.

I guess what I'd like to know is where to weld on the shims? If I weld them on top of the the latch plates the grapple may not even go on. If I weld them in front of the latch pins so the pins will engage them, wouldn't that still let the grapple move up and down on the loader's quick attach plate and possibly come off?

Here's a pic. Hopefully it describes what I'm talking about.

Thanks

 

[SPYDERLK]

I got my new grapple last week and just got the diverter mounted and plumbed a couple days ago.

Yesterday evening when looking over everything I noticed that the grapple is loose when the latching pins are locked down. They are not even contacting the grapple's bottom plate, with a gap all the way around the pins. There's also a gap underneath the loader's attach plate and the grapple's mounting plate but the size of that gap depends on which way the grappled is positioned, dumped/curled, lifting weight, down pressure, etc. The gap ranges from nothing to 5/16".

From what I can find on TBN this is fairly common with some grapples and shims can be added to fix the problem. I've already contacted the manufacturer and have both 3/16' and 1/4" shims on the way so I can fix the problem.

I guess what I'd like to know is where to weld on the shims? If I weld them on top of the the latch plates the grapple may not even go on. If I weld them in front of the latch pins so the pins will engage them, wouldn't that still let the grapple move up and down on the loader's quick attach plate and possibly come off?

Here's a pic. Hopefully it describes what I'm talking about.

Thanks

Either Kubot or the grapple is dimensioned non standard. Hold the non standard party accountable! ... or wimp out and shim it at your expense and inconvenience.

 

[IslandTractor]

Either Kubot or the grapple is dimensioned non standard. Hold the non standard party accountable! ... or wimp out and shim it at your expense and inconvenience.

That's a bit extreme. The SSQA standards are not precise and a fair number of slight "incompatibilities" occur between tractors and attachment plates.

I would personally weld the shims on to the part of the mounting slot closest to the tractor rather than the part next to the mounting plate.

And, don't worry, Spiderlk isn't always this cranky. His wife must have just yelled at him.

 

[SPYDERLK]

That's a bit extreme. The SSQA standards are not precise and a fair number of slight "incompatibilities" occur between tractors and attachment plates.

I would personally weld the shims on to the part of the mounting slot closest to the tractor rather than the part next to the mounting plate.

And, don't worry, Spiderlk isn't always this cranky. His wife must have just yelled at him.

OK. Its unreasonable to get things that fit. Dont be unreasonable. Its your fault; you bought both sides of it. Regardless of your ability level to correct it, you are the only party that has to assume accountability. It is probably in the fine print somewhere. The mfgs will love you for finishing their job. And it will void any warranty the product carries.

 

[ch1ch2]

The answer has to be somewhere in between ..... somewhere.

 

[TomSeller]

That's a bit extreme. The SSQA standards are not precise and a fair number of slight "incompatibilities" occur between tractors and attachment plates.

I would personally weld the shims on to the part of the mounting slot closest to the tractor rather than the part next to the mounting plate.

And, don't worry, Spiderlk isn't always this cranky. His wife must have just yelled at him.

I would agree with this. I am not sure who the manufacture is but Titan has had more "play" in their fit than most. But they also compensate back some money to add shims locally.

At times I would rather have some slop than a tight, tight fit. if I am iced up or have a build up of caked on mud, I appreciate a little extra clearance. Sometimes my pins don't retract fully, again, mud, ice, etc. At least I can get the attachment off. Don't get me wrong, too much slop is bad, a little is okay.

 

[houser52]

OK. Its unreasonable to get things that fit. Dont be unreasonable. Its your fault; you bought both sides of it. Regardless of your ability level to correct it, you are the only party that has to assume accountability. It is probably in the fine print somewhere. The mfgs will love you for finishing their job. And it will void any warranty the product carries.

Why all the hostility?

I politely asked a simple question and requested some help. You have only managed to disrupt my thread and have done nothing to help. You don't know what brand of grapple I have, whether it's under warranty, or anything else about the equipment or me. Whether I want to fix it myself or be an azzhole to the manufacturer is my concern and not yours.

If you can't contribute anything positive go to another thread and pick on them.

To you guys who respectfully answered my question, thank you very much.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Why all the hostility?

I politely asked a simple question and requested some help. You have only managed to disrupt my thread and have done nothing to help. You don't know what brand of grapple I have, whether it's under warranty, or anything else about the equipment or me. Whether I want to fix it myself or be an azzhole to the manufacturer is my concern and not yours.

If you can't contribute anything positive go to another thread and pick on them.

To you guys who respectfully answered my question, thank you very much.

I didnt mean to pick on you. - but to "pick on" the situation.

The point is to get mfgs to improve rather than stay the same or get worse. Taking their responsibility as yours compromises the incentive to actually fix their process. That way everyone continues to have the hit or miss situation.
... It is not a matter of hostility - its a spoof on causing far reaching issues by a habit of taking on misplaced responsibility. For some it can be beyond their capability or otherwise a huge stretch to fix an item themselves or transport for retrofit. For others who miss, or accept the poor fit condition as "the way it is", and go to use it, damage can occur to the loader.

 

[houser52]

I didnt mean to pick on you. - but to "pick on" the situation.

The point is to get mfgs to improve rather than stay the same or get worse. Taking their responsibility as yours compromises the incentive to actually fix their process. That way everyone continues to have the hit or miss situation.
... It is not a matter of hostility - its a spoof on causing far reaching issues by a habit of taking on misplaced responsibility. For some it can be beyond their capability or otherwise a huge stretch to fix an item themselves or transport for retrofit. For others who miss, or accept the poor fit condition as "the way it is", and go to use it, damage can occur to the loader.

No harm done.

I did a lot of research on grapples and knew from the beginning that some of them in my price range was hit or miss on the quick attach fit. If it didn't fit I can always fix it with shims or for the difference in price of the more expensive one I can cut off the grapple's hitch plates, weld on a new SSQA mounting plate and still come out way ahead.

Like a lot of others on this forum I happened to get one that didn't fit and after doing a little more research this morning I saw where you fell into that category. Yes, I read where you had welded shims on your grapple too.

I had already contacted the manufacturer about the problem before I posted yesterday and they said they would make it right by sending 2 sets of shims of different thickness and $50 to have them welded on. I do my own welding so the $50 is for my troubles. I didn't mention the manufacturer's name because they are stepping up to make it right.

I agree that equipment or anything else should be "right " when the consumer receives it but that's the world we live in. That's one reason that I install and repair just about everything I have if it's within my capability.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Yes, you get a better fit if you take it on yourself to fit mating parts well - and have the ability to assess and put to rest the several variables that you run into tightening the fit. For items like forks a tight fit is not imperative because cyclic reversing motion that would cause wear is rare. On a bucket or grapple it is best there be no play; the pins being driven hard into the slots and drawing the taper surfaces hard together. Without this they will not put up with long term use and may get too far toward failure to correct easily before you note. On yours it looks as tho the slot needs to be about 1/4 shorter front/back, and the taper needs to be shimmed~ 1/8 to eliminate up/dwn motion. -- A custom welding grinding job to assure the pins are working at their hard driven point, with least gap to the slot. As such they bear force as close a possible to their support cylinder. Also the pins cant move back [up/down], as they can in the spring driven slop part of their motion, anytime you backdrag.

I am curious where you saw an issue I addressed with grapple fit. Could you do me a favor and link it? The grapple is on my LoaderBuddy which fits perfectly on my Bobcat Tilt-Tatch. The link up problem was from my loader QA to the female side of the TT. Maybe thats the ref you saw. ... At any rate it would be fun to revisit.
,,,Thanks!
larry

 

[houser52]

Yes, you get a better fit if you take it on yourself to fit mating parts well - and have the ability to assess and put to rest the several variables that you run into tightening the fit. For items like forks a tight fit is not imperative because cyclic reversing motion that would cause wear is rare. On a bucket or grapple it is best there be no play; the pins being driven hard into the slots and drawing the taper surfaces hard together. Without this they will not put up with long term use and may get too far toward failure to correct easily before you note. On yours it looks as tho the slot needs to be about 1/4 shorter front/back, and the taper needs to be shimmed~ 1/8 to eliminate up/dwn motion. -- A custom welding grinding job to assure the pins are working at their hard driven point, with least gap to the slot. As such they bear force as close a possible to their support cylinder. Also the pins cant move back [up/down], as they can in the spring driven slop part of their motion, anytime you backdrag.

I am curious where you saw an issue I addressed with grapple fit. Could you do me a favor and link it? The grapple is on my LoaderBuddy which fits perfectly on my Bobcat Tilt-Tatch. The link up problem was from my loader QA to the female side of the TT. Maybe thats the ref you saw. ... At any rate it would be fun to revisit.
,,,Thanks!
larry

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/113666-quick-attach-slop.html?highlight=grapple

Got any pics of where you welded yours?

 

[SPYDERLK]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/113666-quick-attach-slop.html?highlight=grapple

Got any pics of where you welded yours?

Thanks! -- Yeah, I was talking about shimming in a grapple thread, but it was an analogous shim on a different attachment [Tilt Tatch] and I didnt mention that to avoid complicating the thread

...I dont have pics and am not a self sufficient pic poster, but I can talk it thru pretty easy:

Youre adding the shim on the bottom part of the female side and also need the pin slot on the female to close up some. You can do both with the shim/s and strategic weld buildup. 1st determine the exact shim thickness needed to close that bottom gap tight. To get a good measurement you really need the pins to be forcing the slots such that the parts are drawn hard together. A way to do this tack in a shim that affects only the slot area and closes off enuf of the slot to get the pins to bite at their hard [not spring] driven point. This will hold the female downward and fully drawn in. With the grapple [female] installed on youre tractor this way, find among your scrap metal the thickness needed to fill the gap out where the male/female sections taper together. It should fit all the way to the root with some force -Dont count on both sides being the same. Hopefully the gap itself is pretty parallel.

Now remove the grapple. Form your shims to fit to the root of the flange just to where the bend curve starts. Notch out to extend across the pin slot at the proper reduced size or maybe a little smaller so you can grind some off to adjust. Tack in and try it together. If it snugs up but the pins wont quite enter enuf to let the levers overcenter its about perfect for this stage. If so weld it all around. Weld thru the slot from the bottom side to the part of the shim that overhangs the slot. Build it up enuf for good sturdy surface for the pin to bear against. Clean up any bulges and try it together. The pins should enter but not drive fully. The taper should draw together without gap. Remove and look for pressure points in the taper. Clean up as needed. ... Then iterate the slot until the pins hit hard as the levers snap overcenter.
,,,DONE

I set mine up to need about a 1 foot cheater to get the levers to snap over. This allows for the high spots to wear down to a perfect tight. ... Incidentally, I also had to rebuild the pin supports on my QA. They were sloppy from the movement allowed prior to shimming. Yours have grease fittings and Im jealous.
larry

 

[TomSeller]

Dollars to donuts you have a Titan. I have a few of their units and the price is good, you may have to live with a little "adjusting" depending on the unit. ie no need to shim forks, I don't pull back with them. The price they sell at allows for your troubles and the $50 and shims is their normal offer.

 

[k0ua]

No harm done.

I did a lot of research on grapples and knew from the beginning that some of them in my price range was hit or miss on the quick attach fit. If it didn't fit I can always fix it with shims or for the difference in price of the more expensive one I can cut off the grapple's hitch plates, weld on a new SSQA mounting plate and still come out way ahead.

Like a lot of others on this forum I happened to get one that didn't fit and after doing a little more research this morning I saw where you fell into that category. Yes, I read where you had welded shims on your grapple too.

I had already contacted the manufacturer about the problem before I posted yesterday and they said they would make it right by sending 2 sets of shims of different thickness and $50 to have them welded on. I do my own welding so the $50 is for my troubles. I didn't mention the manufacturer's name because they are stepping up to make it right.

I agree that equipment or anything else should be "right " when the consumer receives it but that's the world we live in. That's one reason that I install and repair just about everything I have if it's within my capability.

I like your attitude. Ain't nothing wrong with fixing things yourself if you are capable. And the manufacturer offering to put money back in your pocket for what amounts to a simple "adjustment" repair is not a bad thing either. Take care of it, pocket the money and go on down the road whistling a happy tune.:thumbsup:

 

[rocketfish]

I like your attitude. Ain't nothing wrong with fixing things yourself if you are capable. And the manufacturer offering to put money back in your pocket for what amounts to a simple "adjustment" repair is not a bad thing either. Take care of it, pocket the money and go on down the road whistling a happy tune.:thumbsup:

X2!!! Fix it and roll on. Just post some action picks when your done!!!

 

[Fallon]

Tytn gave me $70 to fix the same issue with my pallet forks (or would swap the frame). I just welded some bar stock to the back of the holes the pins drop into. Now the pins hit the bar stock when dropped half way in the hole. That way the pins are tight & keeps the attachment tight.

 

[houser52]

Thanks again guys and to SPYDERLK for the detailed instructions.

I had a little time yesterday to look at the fit a little closer. I had some scrap 3/16" and 1/4" flat stock laying around and did some experimenting filling in the gap. 1/4" will work but 3/16" lets it hook up and unhook just a little easier. The 3/16" still makes for a good tight fit at the top. With the shims in place and the tapered pins locked down tight I could push down with the loader and raise the tractor front end off the ground and the grapple wouldnt budge any way at all.

Hopefully I'll receive the shims from the manufacturer early this week and get it all welded on.

 

[houser52]

Update- After repeated delays caused by waiting on shim plates, rain, work and grand kids, I finally got the grapple slop fixed.

I ended up using the 3/16" plates, provided by the manufacturer, welded on top of the grapple's bottom mounting tabs to fill in the gap. These made the grapple fit snug to the loader's attach plate however, the locking pins still wasn't making good solid contact with the plate when locked down. I first tried tacking a piece of flat 3/8" X 1 1/2" on top of the plates but the pins were dragging on the top of them which made the grapple hard to attach and detach. I didn't like that. I thought flat 1/4" X 1 1/2" wouldn't provide enough contact to the pins. I didn't like that either.

I found some 1/2" square stock in the shop so I welded the correct lengths inside the slots to fill in the space with good solid contact. Now everything locks up tight and the locking pins don't drag when attaching/detaching.

The grapple mounts and dismounts easily, I can back drag and there's no grapple or locking pin movement at all.

I hope to get the welds cleaned up and painted this afternoon. I still want to tidy up the hoses a little and add some sleeves/spiral wrap for protection but there's no rush on that.

 

[IslandTractor]

Nice "repair".

 

[houser52]

Nice "repair".

Thanks, I appreciate that.