New Guy needs expert advise on tractors

[CurlyDave]

I would like a tractor to clear/prep an area for a house, maintain roads, clear some areas, plant maybe 10-15 acre garden for personal use and sales, mow about 10-15 acres, maintain/work on pond, put up fence, other?

Depending on the size of the area being preped/cleared for a house you might be much better off to hire this out and save the tractor for the other tasks.

Right now we are building a house, admittedly in steep terrain, in OR, and my first thought was to do the prep work myself. My dealer strongly suggested getting someone else to do it, and a contractor with a bulldozer, a large trackhoe, a compactor, and a 4 or 5 cubic yard FEL has done in two weeks what I now realize would have taken me several years...

 

[Blu 82]

All--great info which will help me narrow down the size of tractor (prob 50-75 or so) and trying to match the right tractor characteristics with the work I plan on.

Trying to pick a brand is still an issue which I need more of your expertise. If MF, Deere, NH, Kubota, Mahindra are basically the same, then it comes down to price. Can anyone give good reasons to pick one manufacturer over another--and please be specific?

jeffghs--thanks for the info. Do you have dates on those fairs in GA, Mobile, and Pensacola? That would really help to see them all next to ea other and compare some of the ergonomics.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[jeffghs]

jeffghs--thanks for the info. Do you have dates on those fairs in GA, Mobile, and Pensacola? That would really help to see them all next to ea other and compare some of the ergonomics.

Blu 82
I would definately recommend the GA expo, it is through the middle of the week, but well worth it. I think you would find most of what you are looking for here. If you ever plan on making hay, there are some demonstrations there for that as well. Oct 17, 18, and 19. Here is the web site: Sunbelt Agricultural Exposition

For the Mobile fair it is the last 2 weeks of October, mostly just some static displays there. Welcome to the Greater Gulf State Fair

For Pensacola, I don't know too much, but I guess it would be a lot like the Mobile one, again the last 2 weeks of October. Welcome to the Pensacola Interstate Fair!

 

[Soundguy]

The big 3.. JD, NH, KUBota ( and MF )... you can't go wrong with their products. Also.. larger conglomerates.. like AGCO.. etc... next in my mind would be good units, with slightly less dealer support.. like mahindra, Kioti... etc..

The only issue with mahindra that i can think of, is generally you see lower resale value.. which isn't a big deal if you don't plan on reselling.. and I've seen plenty of discussion over the pto engagement . Some of them ( all? ) have an electric over hyd pto engagement solenoid.

The issue this creates is a 'fast' engage on the pto. Now.. some implements don't like that.. and in the case of rotary cutters.. even when you idle down real low, some people were popping shear pins on engagement.

I'm not sure that applies to all mahindra with independent pto.. or just some.. or if a method to feather engage has been implemented since this issue arose... However.. i would at least look into it. if the issue has been corrected or mitigated.

I'd test drive anything I was interested in.. just about all the major brands will do what you want.. start looking for other options.. .. not necescities.. but ergonomic issues.. like.. the seat.. control options.. trannies.. etc.. dealer attitude.. warranty.. financing options and incentives package deals with implements / discounts.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[N80]

Blu82,

Not being an expert my advice won't be expert advice, but I was in a similar situation to yours about a year ago. I've got 250 hilly acres, a 10 acre pond, a lot of woods roads, a few clearings/small fields. About 1/3 of the property is planted pines of various ages, the rest is hardwood predominant.

I got a Kubota L4400 4wd. It is 45 hp. I would agree that this might be smaller than what you are looking for but I can tell you what I have done with it. First, I mow the clearings and fields with a 6 foot rotary cutter. I maintain roads with the FEL and a 6' box blade.

But, I have also cleared about 3 acres in front of my cabin. This land was sloping and densely covered in young pines anywhere for 4 to 8" in diameter. You can see pics of it in my gallery:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/photos/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/22347

I was able to clear this area of all the trees (you can see how dense they were by looking on either side of the area I cleared). I removed the trees and a good many stumps left over from the previous cut. Then, with the BB and FEL I was able to make considerable changes to the landscape of this slope, cutting down high points and filling in some gullies. I can now mow the whole thing with my rotary cutter. It probably took me a total of 4-5 work days to do this. I have also cleared 3 or 4 food plots doing the same thing.

A larger tractor would have definitely been beneficial for all this clearing, but this little tractor still did a great job. The small size is also an asset for maneuvering in the tight clearings and along the narrow and hilly woods roads. Even though the 'boy' in me would love to have a bigger tractor (I really like the 5040), my budget limited me to the one I got and fortunately it has been up to the task.

I think the two areas that would benefit you by going larger would be mowing 10-15 acres and clearing land. My tractor will pull a 7 foot tag along rotary cutter but for 10-15 acres a ten footer would be real nice.

 

[Bob_Young]

Blu82, A few thoughts:
1. Weight in a tractor is great if you're doing traditional field work with 2WD. Still, I've noticed that taking a tractor that's quite heavy to begin with and then adding an FEL can turn the machine into a real slug. Road gear is often only useful if there's no grade, or nothing in tow, or both. Even in the field, almost any grade will make the tractor labor and sometimes require a lower gear. The lighter Kubotas, like my L4300 or N80's very similar L4400 are quite agile machines whether there's a loader mounted or not. Starting from a dead stop in road gear is no hassle and doesn't require much clutch slippage. Contrast this with a heavy rig that might require you to get it moving in a lower gear and then try to shift on the fly....but then I'm talking the 'old school' tractors of my youth.

2. As someone unfamiliar with tractors, an expedition into the unknown with an off-brand is the last thing you need. As has been pointed out by others, the Big Three are big for a reason; a totally polished and professional approach to tractor design, manufacturing, marketing and support. They best meet the user's needs in one or more of these categories. Due to your unfamiliarity (no fault in that, we all had to start somewhere) any issue that arises could easily cascade into something serious before being addressed. That being the case, wouldn't you want to buy from a manufacturer whose products rarely have issues? If issues arose anyway, wouldn't you want a support network that could provide a remedy quickly and easily? A network that would encourage you to resolve seemingly minor problems and issues before they turn serious?

3. It would be good to choose a tractor that helps you keep your options open. Big tractors are great. However, at some point the work that justified a behemoth will be done and only the recurring small and medium jobs will remain....jobs the big boy isn't well suited to. Farm out the work that requires heavy equipment and you can get by with something smaller in addition to saving wear and tear on your nice new tractor. Compact size, tight turning ability, and ease of shuttling between forward and reverse are golden qualities when working around trees and structures. You could find ALL of these things in a 40-50HP CUT, but not in larger Ag machines. A good CUT in the HP range indicated could do the small and medium jobs that'll make of the bulk of your work and help clean up after the big jobs. That may be all you ever need. Later on, when you get more experience, you might consider one of those large used Ag tractors that are so readily available in your area as a second machine...if you still need bigger.

In your shoes, I'd be looking at Kubota L4330 to L5030 with HST or New Holland TC40 to TC55 with supersteer & HST. Don't know the JD models, so can't help there. With HST, you'll sacrifice some HP on its way to the ground, but the ease of operation and increased productivity should more than make up for any losses.
FWIW
Bob

 

[DavesTractor]

Blu82, A few thoughts:
1. Weight in a tractor is great if you're doing traditional field work with 2WD. Still, I've noticed that taking a tractor that's quite heavy to begin with and then adding an FEL can turn the machine into a real slug. Road gear is often only useful if there's no grade, or nothing in tow, or both. Even in the field, almost any grade will make the tractor labor and sometimes require a lower gear. The lighter Kubotas, like my L4300 or N80's very similar L4400 are quite agile machines whether there's a loader mounted or not. Starting from a dead stop in road gear is no hassle and doesn't require much clutch slippage. Contrast this with a heavy rig that might require you to get it moving in a lower gear and then try to shift on the fly....but then I'm talking the 'old school' tractors of my youth.

2. As someone unfamiliar with tractors, an expedition into the unknown with an off-brand is the last thing you need. As has been pointed out by others, the Big Three are big for a reason; a totally polished and professional approach to tractor design, manufacturing, marketing and support. They best meet the user's needs in one or more of these categories. Due to your unfamiliarity (no fault in that, we all had to start somewhere) any issue that arises could easily cascade into something serious before being addressed. That being the case, wouldn't you want to buy from a manufacturer whose products rarely have issues? If issues arose anyway, wouldn't you want a support network that could provide a remedy quickly and easily? A network that would encourage you to resolve seemingly minor problems and issues before they turn serious?

3. It would be good to choose a tractor that helps you keep your options open. Big tractors are great. However, at some point the work that justified a behemoth will be done and only the recurring small and medium jobs will remain....jobs the big boy isn't well suited to. Farm out the work that requires heavy equipment and you can get by with something smaller in addition to saving wear and tear on your nice new tractor. Compact size, tight turning ability, and ease of shuttling between forward and reverse are golden qualities when working around trees and structures. You could find ALL of these things in a 40-50HP CUT, but not in larger Ag machines. A good CUT in the HP range indicated could do the small and medium jobs that'll make of the bulk of your work and help clean up after the big jobs. That may be all you ever need. Later on, when you get more experience, you might consider one of those large used Ag tractors that are so readily available in your area as a second machine...if you still need bigger.

In your shoes, I'd be looking at Kubota L4330 to L5030 with HST or New Holland TC40 to TC55 with supersteer & HST. Don't know the JD models, so can't help there. With HST, you'll sacrifice some HP on its way to the ground, but the ease of operation and increased productivity should more than make up for any losses.
FWIW
Bob

1) There is some truth to this. Our 4530 is a heavy 42HP utility tractor. You don't want to take off in high 4th, but it is full synchro, so no big deal shifting a couple of times. However, the 5500/6500 is similar in weight with much more power, and I find them more enjoyable to drive. The 7520 is a hot rod, take off in any gear. Pull into a pile and scoop it up, or just push the entire pile into the next county. With the required projects, I'd not reommend a CUT, at least not a light one. I'd go with a utility tractor. I have both, I sell both.

2) As someone that uses and sells an "off-brand", I am a little offended by this, but we don't want to get a brand war going here, nor do I think you at all mean to be offensive. I'll just say that not all non-big 3 brands are alike. Don't lump them all in one basket. It's not risky to buy a Mahindra, but it is important to have a decent dealer. The dealer network, in most areas, is not as developed as the big 3. If there is little or no dealer presence for a brand in your area, I would pass on that brand.

3) I'd agree if he had 10 acres and just one big project, but at 125 acres, a 75HP machine will be very welcome. I used to dislike the bigger machines until I spent a good deal of time on a 7520. It is quick, turns tight, lifts a lot, etc. Same would go for the modern larger machines of any brand.

 

[BarryinMN]

From your posting it looks like 2 distinct functions.
1. Create roads, housing, access etc.
2. Maintenance

To create an industrial grade TLB, skid steer, dozer etc. are better matched to the task. Knocking down trees, ripping stumps, slamming into virgin soil takes a toll on equipment. Hydraulics, pins, bushings, bucket strength are sized appropriately.

Maintenance and landscaping with an ag tractor is more cost efficient. Tractors and attachments are far cheaper.

Using a new ag tractor to clear land is a quick way to make new look used. Can be done on the cheap if you have the time & patience.

I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but I do moonlight developing lakefront property. Very small spaces boxed in by willing buyers for the view, environmental constraints, utility easements, and nosy neighbors

As far as an ag tractor recommendation, I was unwilling to part with more cash than necessary to get the job done. Also not sacrifice reliability, durability, fuel efficiency, compatibility, etc. I run year round mowing at +99 and clearing snow at -20F.

Bought a MFWD Zetor: cab with passenger seat, loader with grapple function, 55 PTO hp, misc other stuff. Weighs about 5 tons with air only in the tires.

I put about 100 hours per year on it. I had one warranty claim, the dealer replaced a dead battery. After 3 Summers I had the AC not draining completely (There are drain hoses down both front pillars outside) & dripping inside. Emailed factory tech service for tips & shortcuts to fix it. Now, I bought the 3 ring binders for service manual and parts lists with the tractor. What I got back was a multipage Word document fully illustrated with 1st most likely, 2nd most likely etc. what to look for & clean out.

For parts availability & distribution they are modeled after mother Deere. Possibly because green painted Zetors were sold by mother Deere in some international markets. My JD dozer and Zetor tractor have the same oil filter maybe coincidence but definitely convenient. I have ordered parts for my 1948 JD A and received them. Might get a heart attack paying for them

My most used tool nowdays is a diesel gator, followed by a diesel JD lawnmower, then the tractor.

Maybe someday I'll buy a new big 3 utility class tractor...

Nawwww, I can put the cash difference to work elsewhere for a better return

 

[Soundguy]

Hmm.. what tractors are we talking about that can't pull their own weight?

I have no problem in road gear with my large, balasted, heavy fords toting 10 and 15' mowers, up a hill.. got plenty of throttle left...

I think I'd immediatly park and sell a tractor that couldn't run at pto rpm, in it's highest gear, on at least a moderate grade, towing it's max rated load.

Soundguy

Blu82, A few thoughts:
1. Weight in a tractor is great if you're doing traditional field work with 2WD. Still, I've noticed that taking a tractor that's quite heavy to begin with and then adding an FEL can turn the machine into a real slug. Road gear is often only useful if there's no grade, or nothing in tow, or both. Even in the field, almost any grade will make the tractor labor and sometimes require a lower gear. The lighter Kubotas, like my L4300 or N80's very similar L4400 are quite agile machines whether there's a loader mounted or not. Starting from a dead stop in road gear is no hassle and doesn't require much clutch slippage. Contrast this with a heavy rig that might require you to get it moving in a lower gear and then try to shift on the fly....but then I'm talking the 'old school' tractors of my youth.

Bob

 

[Bob_Young]

I seem to recall some IH models I ran years ago as falling in this category, Chris. They were heavy to begin with and probably well ballasted. Add an FEL to the mix and they had a heckuva job just getting themselves rolling....and we do have hills here. The gassers were particularly bad in this respect, but I seem to recall a diesel or two that had to labor as well.

Of course, that was 70s technology and back then everything was built heavy. But that's not far from what you get with some of the off-brands.
Bob

 

[Soundguy]

I wouldn't be able to handle a tractor that couldn't pull itself.. I don't see how you could get much usefull work done that way.. ( pto applications i guess.. )

soundguy

 

[Bob_Young]

Guess I should've said "getting themselves rolling in roadgear". They were OK in the working gears. Starting out in a lower gear then upshifting into road gear got easier when they started putting synchronizers on the top gears...I think that's why they did it.

The extra weight helped most of the time when actually working....though downshifting when working up a grade was usually needed to keep from lugging the engine. Not all that uncommon in my experience.
Bob

 

[patrick_g]

Blu82, You can analyze this thing to death but a lot of what you will be comparing can be contradictory and confusing. Everyone has opinions and their own set of biases. A good analyst qualifies his sources. Remember, years of experience doing the same things wrong time after time doesn't make an expert.

I have no meaningful hands on experience with other tractors than my Kubota Grand L4610HSTC. I have observed lots of friends and neighbors trying to make tractors do what they were never designed to do. Two wheel drive row croppers with spindly front ends carrying a big FEL that if filled with heavy material would (and did) break the front end and such. Lots of people will want to tell you they did such and such with a so and so. OK whoopee, they performed a miracle and didn't get caught walking across the street not looking either way first.

I notice a lot of recommendations for a lot more HP than I have. If you need it then you need it and would not be satisfied with way less but I wonder what the big difference is between what I have done with my tractor for the last 5 years and what you will want to do?

None of this is to say only what I did is right and no other way is smart. I'm just telling you what I have done with what I have. These are honest true data points, not conjecture, not estimation or guess, or what I think might be. I do not handle two 1200 lb round bales at the same time. I could if I put one on the back and avoided more than gentle slopes. As it is I need a counter weight on the back to safely handle big round bales with the hay spike. I started handling hay with the pallet forks against good advice. It was nearly a disaster. I went and bought a bale spike. Please don't use palet forks on your FEL to handle heavy bales. You can be injured or killed so fast you won't have time to finish that instinctive quick intake of breath.

If I need to move a quantity of hay a trailer is a better bet. take the tractor, on the trailer, to where the hay is. Load a bunch of hay and take it where you want it. You don't have to have a tractor to unload a trailer. Empty the trailer and go back for the tractor. Bring it to the hay and use it to stack it as required. This whole evolution will move more hay faster with my little CUT than a 120 HP tractor hauling 2 bales at a time if you are going very far with the hay. If you aren't going very far then making the extra trips with only one bale on the tractor won't take very long will it?

When it comes to disking I can't pull as big a disk as a much larger tractor so I make two passes to equal the big guys one. I don't disk very much very often. Just a little fire break action every couple years. Do you anticipate tilling the soil a lot or are you more into mowing pasture?

I pull a very HD 6 ft brush hog rated for 85 HP with no difficulty whatsoever. I can't really hurt the gear box very easily with my 40 HP and I can cut thick grass as tall as our native grass will grow in a wet year (taller than me sometimes) Brush and trees. Well I have gotten a litte Xtreme there. I raise the BH up at a high angle (I have hydraulic TNT) and back into a tree up to 4 inches or more in diameter and slowly lower the BH down, eating the tree down to a couple inch high stump. Makes noise and shakes the tractor and sounds like the world is about to cave in and sometimes I have to raise it a tad to let RPM build again but I have never hurt the equipment doing this. I can brush hog brush that is so heavy I have to back through it, not wanting to expose the underside of the tractor to the abuse. (Note to Kubota: why not accessory skid pans?) I tend to cut heavy brush like that at about 1 ft high. You can drive a tractor over the stubble and it will bend over and not poke a hole in your tires. (Been there done that, it is $50 to repair a rear and you have to take it to them which is a job as rears are not light. (I did it twice in 5 years but learned how to avoid it.)

The stubble may rot off at ground level and break off when driven on by truck or tractor if the plant dies. Otherwise you get to keep cutting it.

Why keep cutting the same brush? A left over habit from lawn mowing the same plants of grass? Burn it or spary it or both. I have a combinatiion spray rig, central single nozzle or twin articulated booms. Longer booms would just hit the ground too much due to their length multiplying the rolling motion so a larger sprayer would be a disadvantage so don't need larger tractor to haul it. I use the fire nozzle on a hose (accessory to spray rig) for fire suppression when doing controlled burns on my place and when assisting neighbors. If I were going to do controlled burns as a professioin I'd get a larger tractor to haul a way larger water tank but I could do like my buddy with the BIG tractor and use a pull behind tank trailer with its own engine driven pump so I don't need a larger tractor for spraying brush, or fire suppression during controlled burns.

I could go on and on item by item but it would be the same story. What I have works really well for my purposes. How different are your purposes?

I have a PHD and it is the BIG unit the big tractors use. I have NEVER lacked for PTO power to spin it, even with roots and rocks. Don't need a bigger tractor for that and I can manuver into places the big tractors can't.

I have a 3PH cement mixer run by PTO. I only saw one size and my tractor handles it just fine and again I have manuvering advantages.

My tiller is only a 5 ft as my wife bought it and the larger ones were way more expensive and we don't need the 20% extra width per swath as we don't do 20 acre gardens. The tractor wasn't limiting it could easily handle a much larger tiller. Grader blades are not a high HP requirement.

My box blade is just about bomb proof. Very strong and a bit over 1300 lbs. I abuse it mightily and it shows no sign of it. It is a HP user. Once in a while I can be in low range at PTO RPM with a full box with ripper teeth retracted (hydraulic scarifier raise and lower) and not be able to climb a fairly steep grade unless I quit scraping to reduce friction. Otherwise I spin 3 wheels (front has no diff lock) and don't go. Maybe a way bigger heavier tractor with more HP could scrape on up the hill. Well, smart guys know you can scrape way more with a full box going downhill with gravity so if you can't make it up the hill then modify your work method just a bit. I have never felt that I needed a bigger tractor with more HP because I coiuldn't scrape up a steep hill with a full box. I just needed to use my head a tad. Do yo see yourself needing to spend a high percentage of your seat time doing Xtreme uphill scraping with a full box? You are allowed to dump your box and scrape going up hill to fill it. This I can do.

It isn't that I have learned a bunch of weird workaround methods because I am way under powered. I have watched others with larger more powerful tractors (mostly 2 WD) that can't do as much as I do. Truthfully, the tractor still amazes me in what it can do. I am more the limiting factor, not the tractor or its ONLY 40HP.

It matters what it is that you are going to do. If there is some tractor activity that you need to do fairly regularly that is particularly demanding you need to buy enough tractor to do it well. If it is a two hour job once a year, trade some work with a neighbor with a big tractor and have him do it. If you are going to own a hammer and mostly drive regular size nails, does it make sense to buy a sledge hammer instead of a carpenter hammer because every once in a while you might need the BIG HAMMER?

I hire a dozer or trackhoe when it is the right thing to do, even if it is something I could do with my tractor. A track hoe with a 30 ft reach and 4 ft wide bucket will do in a day what it would take me a month to do with my FEL and box blade. Buying a larger tractor might reduce that to two weeks of work. For me, the track hoe is the right decision. I'm not trying to make tractor work just to have tractor work. There is more to managing my 160 acres than running around on a tractor.

The first and most important step of an analysts task in designing a solution is to define the requirements. If yoiu don't know what you are going to do it is hard to decide how to do it. There is no Swiss Army tractor that will do everything. I own the closest I have seen so far (for the mix of activities in which I engage.) If I were a row cropper a different answer would be needed.

I do a pretty eclectic mix of tasks from logging trees that run up to about 3 ft in diameter, to gardening, fencing, home building (4 years and counting) and am super pleased.

Analyze your requirements. What will you be doing. what are the hardest challenges? How often will you do the tough jobs? Should you carry a sledge hammer when doing carpentry because once a year you need it for 10 minutes?

People with a FEL but not a hydrostat are limited in their ease of operation whether they realize or admit it or not. If yo are going to have a FEL and use it. a set of pallet forks, and maybe a bale spike and see yourself doing much manuvering then you will really appreciate a hydrostat. The shuttle shift is way better than a plain tranny but it is inferior to the hydrostat for manuvering a lot which somehow seems to frequently be a part of a job.

Get a tractor that does the most the best and then over time decide if a second tractor for just certain jobs makes sense (you were given good advice there, sometimes you might need to divide tasks between different tractors and just use the old used sledge hammer when needed not every day when adjusting a watch or hanging a picture.

Who knows maybe sopme day I will buy a used tractor, hitch up the brush hog and leave it till one or the other breaks. This is a common thing.

Listing accurate requirements is not always easy but really needs to be done. If you make a list and post it you will get valuable feedback in improving your list and advice as to what is required to perform the items on your list. This avoids the unanswerable question of how high is up.

IF you can't quantify your needs how do you decide what is required to meet them. Often when there is uncertainty for any of a number of reasons you don't know what is required so you over respond to make sure you get enough. Usually an inferior approach. Easier but grossly flawed. Funny to watch when it is someones first time blasting a stump and they don't want to underestimate the powder required. Not so funny if you bought a super stretch Hummer because you wanted to take your daughter's club on a wilderness picnic and the rest of its gas guzzling life it went to the store for two bags of groceries once a week.

Post a draft requirements list and let the folks here help you improve it till you are happy with it. Then you won't have much trouble deciding how much tractor you need.

I'd be curiouis to see how many tasks you will expect to do that I wouldn't be happy to do with my tractor. I'd tell you straight out if you have a job I wouldn't be comfortable with.

Pat

 

[N80]

Pat, good post and I agree with your thoughts, but in probably the majority of the cases in which people like me buy a tractor there is no way to do any sort of meaningful analysis of our needs because by-and-large we're not real sure what our needs are. That makes things tough. Even when you get an idea of HP and weight you then get all these wild feature sets thrown at you, all with fancy proprietary names etc. And I think you said this, but you really just have to do the best you can. Getting good advice is important. Having a dealer who understands your relative ignorance and undefined needs is a great asset. If they are relatively knowledgeable they will know how other people in your situations meet their needs. I had some dealers recognize my ignorance and blow me off, I had others recognize my ignorance and try to oversell me. I found a couple who understood and one of them sold me what I still consider the perfect tractor for my needs and budget (Kubtoa L4400).

Also, I think using acreage to estimate what size tractor someone needs is a mistake. Just because I have 250 acres doesn't mean I need a huge tractor. Most of it is wooded and will never see the tractor. I think knowing how much acreage will need the tractor and what the acreage is like is more important.

Finally, and this is off topic so feel free to PM me if you want, but why the warnings about not using pallet forks for moving hay bales. That's all my B-I-L uses and he has a large haying operation (I'm guessing hundreds of bales a year). I've helped him move bales using one of his larger JD ag tractors (I'm guessing 80-100hp) and the forks work great both for moving the bales and loading his hay wagons and trucks. His loader tilts back very nicely and the bales rest up against the pallet fork frame. I'm not saying you are wrong, nor that my B-I-L is mister safety, but he's been doing it for thirty years without a problem and I (in my ignorance) don't see the problem either. Just curious, and would like to know the potential problems when he asks me to move bales. Thanks.

One last thing about tractors starting off in top gear. My little L4400 does it with no probelm, even if you just pop the clutch out it will take off on level ground after a little lugging. Slip the clutch out normally and off you go without a wimper. I'm with Soundguy, I'd be horrified if it were any other way.

 

[Mark Page]

Man thats a tall order. A 15 acre garden is really a small farm. If you're gonna' fool with trees you'll need a little more tractor than one you'd use for mowing. I think I'd push it up a notch to 85-90, not so much for the power but for the weight. If your dealing with wet spots you'll regret not getting 4wd.
I'm a Massey fan, I've owned 3 and they have all been great. Just for a reality check go see the JD people. It amazes me they can quote you a price with a strait face. Great machines but pricey.