New Holland warning

DUMBDOG · Jan 10, 2005

I agree with you on the value of the internet as a tool to give the buyer more information in making the purchase.

When I purchased a new Kubota last month the final price was about $800 more than comparable deals listed on this forum. So why did I purchase from him? Up here in ND the population density is not as high as other parts of the country and the dealer needs to make more off each unit to stay in business and make a profit.

At the beginning, was looking at the NH 55HP and the Case, the NH dealer was $2900 higher than the Case, but the dealer could not get the model, did a little more research on the internet and determined that the GST was more suited to what I was going to use the tractor for and also that cab sure looked comfortable for the cool evenings in the spring when I tilled 40 acres.

I do believe that MSRP should be readily available to the public.

thcri · Jan 10, 2005

I don't know how New Holland's waranty works. But I am in the heating and air conditioning business where the manufacture does not pay labor. They will only pay for the part under the terms. Consumers or dealers can buy additional warranties for labor but even then it does not pay for our full cost. And the other thing, most heating and air conditioning service departments are more of a necessary evil. We make good money on our installs, we don't make money in our service department as most heating service departments. However, I do realise the world is changing, and price is becoming more and more important. I guess I am just not ready give in yet. Example, bought a brand new wide screen TV a few years back, while it was still in warranty it quit. The dealer I bought it from (whom I won't name or ever do business with again) told me I had to take it some place else as he was allowed to sell but not service. This also happened on an HP computer I bought once. Any way to make a short story long I had to take my TV 75 miles away to get it serviced. And the certified dealer told me he has never seen one of these TV's before and wasn't sure he could fix it. He was able to fix and I am back watching TV. But this to me is a hassle and personally don't like it.

Back to others who commented about me service on furnaces not until after the warranty is up. You see most people think I get paid from the manufacture while under warranty, and for the most part we don't, but they won't pay the bill so I loose.

murph

my edit,

The reason manufactures don't pay labor is because they have no control over how a product is installed. Bad installations can makem lemon /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Soundguy · Jan 10, 2005

( The dealer still gets payed, but just by a different person )

My dealer one time showed me exactly what he would get for a warranty repaired item on my tractor ( a pto shield ). I told him not to bother, and to just get me the part.. and I'd bolt it on. he thanked me and I got the part in a couple days. For what would have been about an hours work.. he pretty much got part plus a few bucks. It also saved me from hauling the giant back up there...

Soundguy

PineRidge · Jan 10, 2005

I believe the issue here is not "artificially high," but rather "artificially low." The only reason dealers can sell so low is they don't have to service what they sell to most people out of their local area. If you have been on TBN for very long, you find buyers who are "wailing" about buying from one of these dealers and not getting service support from their local dealer. No surprise in my book... 

Jim I for one don't agree with your reasoning. As an example there are more than a few New Holland owners here who have purchased our rigs form the very same local NH dealer. Yet all we ever seem to get from our local boy is lip service. Every time we take a problem to our dealer we are personally blamed for the problem at hand, as if we had created it ourselves. Most of us have gone to other dealers for parts and service already. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

If we had it to do over again knowing then what we know today, we would have still purchased our TC-40D but we would have done it from Corriher instead. Then "wailed" for the local service just as we have done since the local dealer turned us off. In my honest opinion we would still be ahead of the game. It's really too bad that some dealers don't realize that it's important to keep the customer happy in order to keep them coming back.

I'll agree that the present system stinks. Still a few dealers have enough guts to stand up and want to change that yet they are penalized, and that's what really stinks!

jinman · Jan 11, 2005

( Jim I for one don't agree with your reasoning. As an example there are more than a few New Holland owners here who have purchased our rigs form the very same local NH dealer. Yet all we ever seem to get from our local boy is lip service. )

Mike, I didn't say anything about the quality or lack of quality of some dealers. What I'm asking is if you think Corriher would sell a tractor to you in Ohio if they had to figure out a way to service it? Getut indicated it would be only the "Corrihers or Tarheels" that would survive in the internet generation. If you didn't have anyone closer than NC to work on your tractor, would you still buy that New Holland? I wouldn't. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif That's my "reasoning." I truly wish all dealers who give poor service would go away. That's not the same as buying a tractor from out of state to intentionally "cut the local guy" out of his sales profit. What if your local dealer uses knock-off parts instead of New Holland OEM parts so he can save money? Doesn't he have the right to buy from an internet supplier too?

I don't want there to be two dealers in NC and no other New Holland dealers in the rest of the country. I want a local dealer who will give me a fair price and great service and support. It's MY job to find that dealer before I buy that tractor. If I end up with a lemon-dealer, it's my fault for not doing my research. If I didn't know I had a great NH dealer, you can bet I would own another brand.

I'm really sorry if anyone isn't satisfied with their local dealer. I just think that's a local problem and not systematic of the entire dealer network. I think over time all lousy dealers will self-distruct because of local competition.

I have a great dealer with good prices, great service, top-notch advice, and a quick smile and handshake. That may just be the genesis of my loyalty. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PineRidge · Jan 11, 2005

Think we can agree to disagree on this issue Jim and still be friends.

I think all competition is healthy whether from a brick and mortar business or a web site presence it really doesn't matter to us one bit (especially now).

Certainly Corriher and Tarhells would not come to Ohio to service our equipment we wouldn't expect it. But then it would seem that our local boy isn't doing any better. Where does that leave the customers like myself that have supported our local dealers and still have no place to turn for our needs?

 It's MY job to find that dealer before I buy that tractor. If I end up with a lemon-dealer, it's my fault for not doing my research. 

I don't think that's always possible. How do you check out a dealer's service reputation before you make a purchase? Sure we looked at his tractor and parts inventory, we talked with the parts guy, and the local dealer talked a good story. He was willing to give us a few references, but then we wouldn't expect him to give us a name of a customer that was unhappy with him or had gone elsewhere. It also looked to us like he was moving a good amount of new stock so we figured that he must be trusted in the area and he was willing to negotiate on the price.

So we spent our money locally, we supported the "local guy". As far as we are concerned we have now enabled that "lack of support" to perpetuate by doing so. We blame ourselves for that too, but we really don't know what we could have done any differently to have changed it other than go elsewhere now.

Don't get me wrong we are not sour on New Holland, we love our tractor, we are simply sour on the local dealer.

Sooner or later we'll find a local guy that will be more than happy to get our business. The good dealers know that if they keep you happy that you'll be back when you need to talk about service, a new implement, or even a new tractor.

If we were a dealer we would think it would be good business to give customers that purchased a tractor from us a 20% discount on parts to let them know that we appreciate their business, to say thanks for the purchase, and to keep them coming back for more. We would also be trolling the Internet for conversations like the one we are having right here. And if the guy making the complaint was within our service radius we would jump on that free opportunity immediately. Instead of driving business away we would be attracting it.

It's a lot easier and cheaper business wise to keep a customer happy and within the fold than it is to go out and find a new one. And if your customers are happy they have no reason to go anywhere else. Plus you get free word of mouth advertising, that's priceless.

TC-40D SS web pictures click here

BillyP · Jan 11, 2005

I'm curious. I know there's some NH dealers here so, how much does NH pay on warranty work?

Are you allowed to make a % on warranty parts and if so how much?
I figure they pay by "their" flag hours? Do they pay by your hourly service charge or do they have their own hourly rate?

Robert_in_NY · Jan 11, 2005

When you take a tractor to a NH dealer for warranty work (I imagine all tractor and maybe auto companies are the same way) the dealer can not charge you for that work. He in turn has to submit the paperwork to New Holland for reimbursement and New Holland will only pay them what they think it should cost. New Holland figures the time to install parts on paper and do not actually try these things. So if you need a power steering line replaced and New Holland tells the dealer it should only take 1 hour to do this job that is all they are paid for. But if it takes the dealer 2 hours just to get to the well placed line that is their problem. They still only get paid for one hour.

My New Holland dealer gives me his price. I can go one hour away and save around $1k more without negotiating but then I am stuck transporting my machine back and forth for warranty work and service. My local dealer takes care of transportation for any machine they sell. If you do not buy from them you will pay for them to haul it to do warranty work. My dealer will work on any New Holland tractor regardless of if they sold it but that machine will not be put in front of one of his customers machines. They reward their customers with great service and they do help people who bought elsewhere to establish a relationship with them.

I agree with Jim and do think NH corp is doing the right thing about internet sales. I do think dealers should have to service the tractors they sell. I also think dealers should be responsible for transporting the machines they sell for warranty work. This will do more for the brand then outlawing internet sales. If you want to sell a tractor to a customer 2000 miles away then you had better like driving a truck to do the warranty work or paying another NH dealer to do the work.

Of course if a dealer goes bankrupt and you need to go to another dealer that should not be a problem. NH corp should send you a notice informing you of the next local dealer that will take over warranty and service work on your machine. And if you have a problem with a dealership (poor service or whatever) and want to change dealerships, you should have no problem and all you need to do is explain to the new dealership your problems with the old one. This will allow the new dealership to understand your expectations and they should try to exceed those standards you expect. And in the end they will have a new customer.

I have and will continue to pay more money for my NH products by staying local then to shop around for a great deal. I have a good relationship with my dealer and they treat me well because I deal with them. The only time I don't deal with them is when they do not have something I am looking for (I am in grape country and they don't have a lot of balers in the grape fields). They know this and have no problems with it and are still more then happy to work on my equipment that I don't buy from them because they know who I am and why I buy what I do. Most people have no understanding of developing a good relationship with a dealership. I have two dealerships I have a good relationship with and I deal with them both but for different products. One sells Valtra tractors and a lot of different implements, the other is my NH dealer who I buy all my tractors from as well as a lot of haying equipment.

I guess to sum this whole thing up, if you don't have a good dealer or if you don't try to have a good relationship with your dealer then don't expect good service if you buy out of state and demand them to fix your machine. Dealers include a certain amount of profit in the sales price to cover the lack of warranty money that NH gives them. Buy local, support your local community and build a trusting relationship with your community and you will be repaid in the end.

jinman · Jan 11, 2005

( Think we can agree to disagree on this issue Jim and still be friends.
)

Hey, we're talking philosophy, not phriendship. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif We are allowed to disagree. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

( If we were a dealer we would think it would be good business to give customers that purchased a tractor from us a 20% discount on parts to let them know that we appreciate their business, to say thanks for the purchase, and to keep them coming back for more. )

Do the NC dealers do that? Can you order repair parts from them for a 20% discount?

It's funny that an earlier post compared tractor dealers to inkjet printer sales. I just noticed an Epson inkjet printer for $100 and a full set of refill cartridges is about $97. Wow! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif ...but then I realize I spent $1,600 for a HP Laserjet III in '93 or '94 and I was thrilled to get it under $2000. The refill for that was only $75. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Which is the better printer? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I think you can't compare them. You make the best choice you can make at the time you have to make the decision. You can't 2nd guess yourself 10 years later.

Anyhow, I'm not sure what your specific issue is with your local dealer. Can you refresh my memory? What problem did they blame on you? I know it's hard to find a good dealer. I had 8 years of experience with my local dealer before I bought my tractor. There are four other NH dealers I could do business with, and this one was the only one without a fence around his dealership. For some reason, that does affect my attitude.

I think what we all want is to "weed out" the good dealers from the bad ones. It's obviously more than just the sale and the sales price that make a good long-term relationship. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

LarryRB · Jan 11, 2005

I'd like to put my two cents in here,,, From what I have been through, strictly speaking the New England area and no others, I still think that all tractor mfg's should follow Deere's lead and at least post the list pricing. By doing this, it will eliminate the massive disparity over dealer pricing. I have priced Kubota L 48's in particular and found 7,000 difference in list pricing within 70 or so miles,, So if dealer "A" claims a list of 41K, why is list 49K at dealer "B" and the exact same options? By the mfg themselves posting list prices, it would eliminate this disparity and I believe will also help the local dealer long term in sales and follow up work.. The pricing is so radical that I made up my mind a long time ago, it is not worth dealing with the locals and much cheaper and "mentaly" easier to deal long distance... Too me, it is well worth the travel and time vs the radical pricing games played here,, It also makes me wonder if the prices are so radical, can I even trust to "think" warantee or follow up will be done correctly and within reason for both dealer and owner..