New Holland warning

Soundguy · Jan 11, 2005

( If you didn't have anyone closer than NC to work on your tractor, would you still buy that New Holland? I wouldn't )

Though it is not a tractor, I can speak from experience here. The GC I work for was looking for a 50 ton lowboy a few months ago. We looked at eager beaver. Got a good price quote. But the boss is tight.. tighter than I am... sometimes too tight.. in some cases he gets in a situation where he spends a dime to save a nickle.. if you catch my drift. He went to an auction in georgia, and saw some discount drand trailers there.. new.. last years model.. something XL Probably 4-5K cheaper.. and bought it.

Now mind you.. the deale ris in south georgia.. and we are in central florida.

The trailer was ok.. it had a few minor problems.. like a bad weld on a check chain.. etc. No biggy.. a drip from a hydro line. A month after we got i.. the hyds froze up ( it looked like it was a bypassing cyl.. but ende dup being a diverter valve relieving pressure, and bypassing the lift cyls. . It was like pulling teeth to get the parts sent out from the dealer... though we could have taken it to them for free warranty or parts service. A month later.. the spool valves died. The dealer refused to send us the valves, and we still had no manual. I finally had to call the manufacturer. I got the manual and the valve from them.. but they really didn't want to help either, as they said it was a dealer issue. It was only after I said I was sending the trailer back that the manufacturer sent the valves out, and sent us a zeroxed copy of a manual.... Warranty is over now, cause we did the install on the parts. I guess neither of the 3 parties are super happy. ( we aren't happy as we have a 'new' trailer with problems that we had to fix.. and the dealer was little help dealer is mad because we called the manufacturer, and they got an ear chewing. Manufacturere is mad that they have to deal with a grumpy end user who should be serviced by his dealer.. etc. We all lost in this deal.. and part of the fault was that we bout at a dealer that was too far away for carry in service. ( our fault ). Oh yeah.. in the end.. we didn't save that 4k I'm pretty sure.. I think my 'hair' I pulled out was worth at least half that...

So no.. I probably wouldn't recomend driving to get a piece of equipment under warranty.. if I didn't want to drive back for warranty work....

Soundguy

billfires · Jan 11, 2005

Mike, in May 2002 I bent the bucket cylinder on a 758C backhoe. I called the local NH dealer and was told it would be $485.00 plus tax. I posted here and found retail was $450.38. Another New Enland dealer said to ask the local dealer to put it on his stock order (NH gives dealers 5% discount and free shipping). I went back to local dealer and they said that was the price using stock order (expedited was extra cost plus shipping). The out of state dealer could have shipped it to my home for $407.95, I decided to make a day of it with my retired dad and ended up paying less than $400.00. Was it right for the local dealer to charge $35.00 over retail? I was not happy about it and if I decide to buy another NH I would think twice about purchasing locally. My experience for what it is worth. Bill C

Robert_in_NY · Jan 11, 2005

Did you price any other parts using the same part number? Any other items like a canopy, new remote or whatever that should cost over $100. Find out if it was a quick in the computer system between dealers or if they do this with all their items.

woodlot · Jan 11, 2005

My high school economics class covered this 20 years ago. Limiting the marketing capabilities of any dealer/business limits its ability to create demand. Stagnant demand creates a limited customer base. This in turn means fewer sales, fewer sales means higher prices.

Limiting marketing abilities means higher prices for all, and allows crappy dealers to remain isolated from competition. This allows them to limp along until something better for the consumer appears. This is not the American way! I thought we were based on a free-market society and a lesse-fair economy. I'm not one to judge, but this appears like a price fixing scheme, if not anti-trust.

It appears the service part of the equation has a few minor bugs to work out, but it seems to me that any dealer or business that refuses to work on a product they are associated with falls into the aforementioned "crappy dealer" category.

getut · Jan 11, 2005

Amen woodlot. Exactly what I was saying.

Artificial limits help NO one. In the same token they should get fair compensation for what they do. Don't give away something for nearly free and expect to finance it by making a killing somewhere else.

This day and time people willing to invest the time can find out if either is the case. They'll take you free or heavily discounted offer and get the item you want to make a killing from somewhere else, and more power to them.

Compete with price and quality and people will come. Who is to say that the local guy can't sell something to somebody 2 states away too???

This is meant humerously in slap on the shoulder style: Stop whining and go getum!!!! Lower your prices and compete with them, stop expecting coporations to protect your business model!!!

Robert_in_NY · Jan 11, 2005

I agree, CNH corportate needs to address the warranty reimbursment issue. But like any company, they do not want to give money away if they can help it. If they were to make it worth while and pay the dealers correctly then I have no doubts the dealers would love to do warranty work on other machines. But to ask a dealer to take a loss on a machine they have made no money on is wrong and unfair. This will create higher prices for the people who do buy local as they will have to pay higher prices to cover the loss the dealer suffers. I don't think this is a problem too far away but in the states near these two main internet companies I would imagine the rest of the consumers are feeling the results.

It all comes down to principle, do you believe saving a few dollars is more important then supporting your local economy and developing a good freindship with your local dealer? If so then that is your right. If you have never had a good relationship with a dealership then you do not understand where people like Jim and I are coming from. Support the people who you want to support you. Take care.

thcri · Jan 11, 2005

Bob,

That was well put. The town my wife was from had a small store that sold groceries and farm supplies. The town was a small town, you know 200 at christmas time. Anyway people started making the trips to a near by larger town to get their groceries etc. With time the local to keep in business had to raise prices. The local people started to complain and then ended up buying more from the larger store. With time the local store closed it's doors. Now the local people are all upset because the local store isn't there anymore to pick up the small stuff. If they would have supported the local guy in the first place this would have never happened. What I think is ridiculous is this town is 40 miles away. Now all of these people when they need a loaf of bread or a gallon milk they have to drive 40 miles to get it. That is in part why I believe support the local person. Yes you may pay a bit more but look at the alternatives. In this case if New Holland would allow the two dealers we are all talking about to sell the way we would want service would go down the toilet. There would be no New Holland dealers to service us and we would have to go a long ways to get service. I agree with New Holland in monitoring internet sales.

murph

woodlot · Jan 11, 2005

I live very near a small town too. I used drive an hour to the big-box store to get my hardware items and never to the local hardware store. why? price you think? Not at all. It was because the guy who owned the local hardware store treated his customers like trash, everyone knew it, some even put up with it. Finally another local opened up a new hardware store right next door to the first. This is in a town of 1000 people. No way could two harware stores make it. What happened? The guy who treated his customers like trash closed up shop, his customers were gone. Now I visit the local hardware store again. Should the "hardware store police" have stepped in to prevent another hardware store from opening? Of course not!

As a side note: I equate the bad hardware store owner to the "crappy dealer" who won't service an item he did not sell.

Steve_Miller · Jan 11, 2005

Wasn't a problem for me. I got prices from two diffrent dealers in N.S. with nothing mentioned about where I lived. Both prices were considerably lower than list price. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Steve
Nova Scotia

Bob_Skurka · Jan 11, 2005

I believe the issue here is not "artificially high," but rather "artificially low." The only reason dealers can sell so low is they don't have to service what they sell to most people out of their local area. If you have been on TBN for very long, you find buyers who are "wailing" about buying from one of these dealers and not getting service support from their local dealer. No surprise in my book... 

Jinman, I'm a very happy New Holland owner (and Kubota owner) and I have to say that I think Robert (Getut) is spot on accurate with most of what he is saying. Further, my local dealer BEAT the delivered price I could get from Corriher. On top of that I have gone back to my local dealer several times for attachments and implements and he has soundly beaten Sweets Tractor in Tennessee, Corriher in NC, Tarheel in NC and anyone else I can find on IDENTICAL brands/sizes/models. My local NH/Branson dealer has a website, but doesn't sell over the internet. He is a BIG dealer in AG equipment located in a small town (Beecher, IL, population 2500) and sells ag equipment over a long distance. As for service and parts, I'm a little tiny customer, but they have been absolutely great to deal with on all aspects. I don't thing my dealer is pricing artificially low. I also don't think Corriher and Tarheel are pricing artificially low. I think dealers like them are pricing to keep out competition from low priced brands and I think they are moving volume because of it. There is no reason for N.H. to be priced higher and some dealers recognize that they must compete with Mahindra, Century, Kioti. Branson and similar brands. These other brands are probably as good as NH, Kubota, and Deere but they don't have the dealer networks that the big 3 have nationally. They however do have some very strong regional penetration in some areas and they have some very good, and some very bad dealers, just like other brands. The Big 3 dealers who will THRIVE are the ones who recognize that all tractors are competition and price agressively, and service what they sell and those that do will effectively be more attractive and they will marginalize the "minor" brands so they don't gain a foothold in the market.

I will say my Kubota dealer is a great dealer in most respects, but I think he has his head in the sand when it comes to the quality and design of brands like Mahindra, and to a lesser extent Kioti.

The good dealers will realize competition come from all brands, not just the other major brands.