New Kubota.ca Site Stinks

huckflynn · Aug 9, 2001

Re: woodstock\'s response, to Mr. Kelly

<font color=blue>I am basically opposed to censorship and regret that the Kubota site chose to erase his post. The theory of our democratic society, and of our First Amendment, is that "bad" speech will be driven out of the marketplace of ideas not by censorship, but by "good" speech offered by others in reply. </font color=blue>

Kubota is not a democracy. There is no first amendment right that says a business must spend money to publicly post heckling letters from disgruntled customers. Even newspapers maintain editorial control over the tone and content of the letters they *choose* to publish.

My guess is that Kubota will ultimately pull the forums and offer just a Frequently Asked Questions/Knowledge Base section with an email address for posing questions.

Huck

smokey · Aug 9, 2001

Re: woodstock\'s response, to Mr. Kelly

If manufacturers value their customers they should provide an email address to send comments/complaints to. Otherwise how do they know what their customers want. This is the best way of dealing with this otherwise they will find the customer listing his or her complaints on a public accessable web site. "He who controls the information flow runs the show. " - Joseph Goebels - This fundamental principle in propaganda cannot be ignored.

The future I believe will bring many parts listings online - not because the manufacturer wants to do the right thing by the customer but because it is a cheaper and more effective method of managing spare parts. The best example I have seen so for are www.bareco.com.au OEM Massey Fergusen spare parts listings. It is only a matter of time before manufacturers such as Kubota catch up.

woodstock · Aug 9, 2001

Should woodstock go to Kubota?

Huckflynn
thanks for your post.
I am in agreement with you a private forum like Kubota.ca is not a democracy.
And yes my posting was a rude way of getting attention, but I am not a disgruntled customer. I am quite the opposite.
However, their web site does pale in comparison to their product, I suspect because the site was not built by Kubota.
Please don't fall into the trap of using newspapers as a bench mark for right and wrong behaviour. Their print is full of errors and omissions, censorship with nothing being black & white. (bad joke)
If the web contractor was not administoring the site I suspect Kubota would have edited my post and responded.
The last hing this contractor wants is Kubota to see that the site needs something that they didn't think of or consider. Like an email address, phone number etc.
I don't think Kubota will pull the forum. I not sure that applies to the contractor.

I'm still debating whether to contact Kubota (I am within blocks of the Canadian headquarters on a monthly basis) regarding the initial post., the contractor first and second replies. I wonder if Mr. if Mr. Kelly is still reading.

Members should I or shouln't I visit Kubota's Canada the next time (late August) in Mississauga.

Winnipeg, Manitoba

2001 BX2200 (23 hrs) All Kubota FEL,Tiller, box blade, blower w/elec shute, 60 mid mt deck, Ag tires.
Grey market B7000 w/Tiller (120 hrs)

huckflynn · Aug 10, 2001

Re: Should woodstock go to Kubota?

Woodstock,

I mention newspapers because they are commercial establishments often involved in fighting for first amendment rights. They provide a forum for community discussion -- but because they own the forum they can make the rules and control the content.

I own a software business. I provide a website for customers to keep their software up to date, get questions answered, etc. The site is also often the first point of contact with prospective customers.

It costs over $3000 a month to provide the bandwidth, equipment and manpower to maintain the site. We constantly work to improve the site and the rest of our services. We do not currently have a forum for public postings, but if we did, a posting that started with "This site sucks" would be gone in a heartbeat. It would be done as a matter of course -- nothing personal -- just good business.

If the poster ultimately bragged about being rude to get attention I would do my best to discredit such behavior. It is counterproductive for everyone involved and should be discouraged at every turn.

Huck

looch · Aug 10, 2001

Re: woodstock\'s response, to Mr. Kelly

<font color=blue>...and of our First Amendment...</font color=blue>

Sorry, glennmac - no such thing in Canada. That's twice now/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

glennmac · Aug 10, 2001

Re: woodstock\'s response, to Mr. Kelly

Notwithstanding that the website is a commerical one, and that there is no First Amendment or even a Consititution in the Peoples Republic of Canada (/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif), I still think that a manufacturer's website should not censor critical speech. If the critic is incorrect, others will chime in and point out why, thereby educating everyone. If no one does so, then maybe the critic is correct, and it would make good business sense for the manufacturer to listen to the criticism. Truth will utimately arise out of adversarial positions and arguments--that's the underlying theory of the Anglo-American trial system, for example.

looch · Aug 10, 2001

Re: woodstock\'s response, to Mr. Kelly

Here, here!

woodstock · Aug 10, 2001

Re: Should woodstock go to Kubota?

I spoke to my Dealer today about this Kubota.ca and Mr. Kelly.
He was flabergasted when I told him Mr. Kelly was a Web design contractor.
He indicated all the Canadian Dealers where in attendance at the Markham Headquarters for the official web site launch.
Mr. Kelly was present and my Dealer was left with the impression he was a Kubota employee.
He recommended I contact Kubota directly and a personal visit would further the point of wanting to make the site as good as the tractors.
So I've decided I will go at the end of August beginning of September and see the 100,000 sq. ft. facility for myself.
Of course with forum postings in hand along with the Nikon 990.

Winnipeg, Manitoba

2001 BX2200 (23 hrs) All Kubota FEL,Tiller, box blade, blower w/elec shute, 60 mid mt deck, Ag tires.
Grey market B7000 w/Tiller (120 hrs)

huckflynn · Aug 11, 2001

Re: woodstock\'s response, to Mr. Kelly

I don't think they should have to censor critical speech. Nor do I think they would censor critical speech. Inflammatory, derogatory and rude speech is a different matter.

The underlying theory of the Anglo-American trial system aside, in practice, there is always a call for "order in the court" and remarks are often stricken from the record. My objection stands.

Huck

woodstock · Aug 11, 2001

Re: woodstock\'s response, to Mr. Kelly

As Al Pacino once said"your out of order, " No your out of Order. DeNiro "You talking to me. Are You Taking to Me!"

Now on to something serious.

huckflynn,
Your absolutely correct.

While I didn't expect to get booted off the site, my Dealer says that well be corrected, I also didn't expect my posting to be completely deleted.

I did expect it to be censored.

I don't know how many of you saw my posting at Kubota.ca before they deleted it.
As far as I'm concerned the Web contractor owes me a big thank you for showing them a major flaw in their design.
The subject line on any new posting is AUTOMATICALLY DISPLAYED ON THE MAIN HOME PAGE. .......... oops

In my line of work, I do quality control audits on Mechanical Contractors. The bad one constantly say I make them look bad. My come back to this approach is "Buddy you don't need any help." They usually don't last too long. On the other hand the good ones take my report and correct everything without complaining.
The real good contractors,keep my list and make sure the same mistakes aren't repeated.
Iwonder what catyagory Mr. Kelly falls in?

Winnipeg, Manitoba

2001 BX2200 (26 hrs) All Kubota FEL,Tiller, box blade, blower w/elec shute, 60 mid mt deck, Ag tires.
Grey market B7000 w/Tiller (120 hrs)