New Kubota with DPF Filter

[sunnyside360]

Well, my new Kubota ZD1511-72 attempted it's first regen at 10.6 hrs on the meter yesterday and failed. First, the amber REGEN indicator came on just after starting to mow grass. Then the second amber indicator came on, then the red engine indicator came on and the engine stopped with the alarm chirping. Engine would not start (would not turn). Got the owners manual out and it said to contact your dealer. Called the dealer and they responded immediately by sending a tech out. The tech looked for a diagnostic code but there was none. By this time it was about 45 minutes after engine had shut down and the red engine light was now off. So the tech started the engine and pressed the Park Regen button to complete the regen process. The engine ran at max rpms until the hour meter hit 11.0 hrs (approx 24 minutes) and the Regen indicator went off. Mowed with the machine another 3 hrs w/o incident. The tech is going to contact Kubota to see what may be the cause for regen malfunction. Kudos to the Kubota dealer tech support for coming out immediately, but needless to say, I wasn't too happy. Hopefully, it never happens again.

 

[sunnyside360]

Cancelled -- duplicate

 

[brain55]

I don't really want the "intellipanel" since that just adds more electrical complications, but it would be nice to have a light indicating that a regen will occur soon. What should be available on any tractor is a regen-on-demand that you can activate once it's close to needing a regen so you can make it happen at a more convenient time.

We have enough problems with the cancel button and customers never letting letting their machines complete a regen and then calling upset because now their machine is derated and a tech has to come out to reset the soot level because it's a 4 or 5 and perform a manual regen. Giving them the option of having to actually turn it on when it's time for a regen would make things worse. Kubota more or less tried this but went to an automatic system (granted there was no regen soon warning) but the customers just left the regen turned off which created obvious problems. Yes, there is a small percentage of the world that finds it neccesary to track and log every regen but they are a very very small percentage.

Brian

 

[bookmyer]

My skid steer and my small tractor have the DPF on them. No problems so far but I really don't see how these are more beneficial to the environment. I run those machines at a higher RPM to try and limit the soot build up which burns more fuel. And then the regeneration process burns more fuel to clear out the soot. Seems like burning more fuel would be worse for the environment to me. Plus it is annoying if the regeneration cycle comes on right at about the time you are done with your job and then you have to stay on the machine for an extra ten minutes just to go through the process. And burn more fuel!

 

[sunnyside360]

My skid steer and my small tractor have the DPF on them. No problems so far but I really don't see how these are more beneficial to the environment. I run those machines at a higher RPM to try and limit the soot build up which burns more fuel. And then the regeneration process burns more fuel to clear out the soot. Seems like burning more fuel would be worse for the environment to me. Plus it is annoying if the regeneration cycle comes on right at about the time you are done with your job and then you have to stay on the machine for an extra ten minutes just to go through the process. And burn more fuel!

My sentiments exactly. I don't blame Kubota, John Deere, Mahindra, or whoever else. It's the EPA going too far in my opinion, especially on these smaller diesel engines that only run a short period of time mowing grass (couple hrs per week during summer) and then the engines are so small that pollution from them are sub fraction of total environmental pollutants. In the end, I suspect something better will come along eventually like what happened with gasoline engines, i.e., cleaner burning fuel, better efficiency, and etc.

 

[scdeerslayer]

We have enough problems with the cancel button and customers never letting letting their machines complete a regen and then calling upset because now their machine is derated and a tech has to come out to reset the soot level because it's a 4 or 5 and perform a manual regen. Giving them the option of having to actually turn it on when it's time for a regen would make things worse. Kubota more or less tried this but went to an automatic system (granted there was no regen soon warning) but the customers just left the regen turned off which created obvious problems. Yes, there is a small percentage of the world that finds it neccesary to track and log every regen but they are a very very small percentage.

Brian

I'm not talking about having to turn it on when it's time like the original Kubota system, I'm talking about a way to tell it to start a regen once it gets to 80% or 90% or some limit where you're about an hour from an automatic regen. For example, you are nearing finishing some mowing or heavy pulling work and you see that it gets to that amount. When you finish the current job you're going to be doing short light duty jobs or for some other reason you don't want a regen to happen then, so you tell it to do a regen now, then you're good for a while. Basically giving a range of time when you CAN do a regen, but when it gets to the end of that time it's going to automatically regen.

 

[sunnyside360]

Well, my new Kubota ZD1511-72 attempted it's first regen at 10.6 hrs on the meter yesterday and failed. First, the amber REGEN indicator came on just after starting to mow grass. Then the second amber indicator came on, then the red engine indicator came on and the engine stopped with the alarm chirping. Engine would not start (would not turn). Got the owners manual out and it said to contact your dealer. Called the dealer and they responded immediately by sending a tech out. The tech looked for a diagnostic code but there was none. By this time it was about 45 minutes after engine had shut down and the red engine light was now off. So the tech started the engine and pressed the Park Regen button to complete the regen process. The engine ran at max rpms until the hour meter hit 11.0 hrs (approx 24 minutes) and the Regen indicator went off. Mowed with the machine another 3 hrs w/o incident. The tech is going to contact Kubota to see what may be the cause for regen malfunction. Kudos to the Kubota dealer tech support for coming out immediately, but needless to say, I wasn't too happy. Hopefully, it never happens again.

UPDATE: The tech returned today to look for a diagnostic code using his laptop and found two codes. Both indicate excessive exhaust temperature during the first Regen. Kubota region support rep said he has heard of a few other ZD1511 mowers doing the exact same during the first Regen -- no more problems after the first Regen. Hope mine is in that bucket.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

My skid steer and my small tractor have the DPF on them. No problems so far but I really don't see how these are more beneficial to the environment. I run those machines at a higher RPM to try and limit the soot build up which burns more fuel. And then the regeneration process burns more fuel to clear out the soot. Seems like burning more fuel would be worse for the environment to me. Plus it is annoying if the regeneration cycle comes on right at about the time you are done with your job and then you have to stay on the machine for an extra ten minutes just to go through the process. And burn more fuel!

Seems like running at higher RPM would burn more fuel but my L3901 seems to use less or same amount of fuel than my other F, L and B Kubotas. I get and have always gotten about an hour per gallon on almost all of my Kubotas under work load. I have no explanation other than several years of personal experience with actual hands on use of the machines and can't provide a theoretical explanation which so many people prefer over actual experience. :confused3:

 

[Fallon]

Seems like running at higher RPM would burn more fuel but my L3901 seems to use less or same amount of fuel than my other F, L and B Kubotas. I get and have always gotten about an hour per gallon on almost all of my Kubotas under work load. I have no explanation other than several years of personal experience with actual hands on use of the machines and can't provide a theoretical explanation which so many people prefer over actual experience. :confused3:

Gassers have to feed in air & fuel at the correct stoichiometric rate, so more air = more fuel. Hence a throttle (look up alternate definitions of the word) to literally strangle the air supply to the engine for lower RPMs. More RPM = more fuel.

A diesel on the other hand always has an unrestricted air intake. The govoner on the fuel pump tells the fuel pump how much to spray per shot to maintain the set RPM. Higher RPM at no load uses insignificantly more fuel than lower RPM. So the diesels don't use much more fuel at no load regardless of a low or high RPM setting. Probably a hair more wear & definitely more noise, but no fuel guzzling linked to RPMs like a gasoline engine.

 

[Ranger1969]

Well, my new Kubota ZD1511-72 attempted it's first regen at 10.6 hrs on the meter yesterday and failed. First, the amber REGEN indicator came on just after starting to mow grass. Then the second amber indicator came on, then the red engine indicator came on and the engine stopped with the alarm chirping. Engine would not start (would not turn). Got the owners manual out and it said to contact your dealer. Called the dealer and they responded immediately by sending a tech out. The tech looked for a diagnostic code but there was none. By this time it was about 45 minutes after engine had shut down and the red engine light was now off. So the tech started the engine and pressed the Park Regen button to complete the regen process. The engine ran at max rpms until the hour meter hit 11.0 hrs (approx 24 minutes) and the Regen indicator went off. Mowed with the machine another 3 hrs w/o incident. The tech is going to contact Kubota to see what may be the cause for regen malfunction. Kudos to the Kubota dealer tech support for coming out immediately, but needless to say, I wasn't too happy. Hopefully, it never happens again.

Sunny,

How was the 1511 performance other than the DPF problems? I looked at buying the 1511 but instead went with the 1211-72. So far I have been happy with the 1211 - plenty of power and speed - it cuts better than the old ZD28. When I drove the 1511 I could hear the turbo singing and it sounded like power but I thought it was not as quick as the ZD1211 thu, just a little less responsive, definitely heavier.

Have you cut any really high grass, mowed on steep inclines or other situations where the 31HP+turbo would be useful?

Thanks -David

 

[sunnyside360]

Sunny,

How was the 1511 performance other than the DPF problems? I looked at buying the 1511 but instead went with the 1211-72. So far I have been happy with the 1211 - plenty of power and speed - it cuts better than the old ZD28. When I drove the 1511 I could hear the turbo singing and it sounded like power but I thought it was not as quick as the ZD1211 thu, just a little less responsive, definitely heavier.

Have you cut any really high grass, mowed on steep inclines or other situations where the 31HP+turbo would be useful?

Thanks -David

1511 performance is way better than my previous 331, at least for my application. The 1511 is quite a bit heavier which is a huge advantage on steeper slopes, especially when turning. The 331 has lots of power (31 hp) as does the 1511 so I don't see much difference there even in tall grass. I don't have 20/20 hearing anymore, aka normal, so I can't hear the turbo. The new aerodynamic deck is improved with much less clumping of grass. 1511 steering responsiveness is better than the 331. I'm sure the 1511 uses more fuel than the 331 but I haven't calculated it exactly but will after a few more hours. The air ride seat is the main reason I got the 1511, but it is superior to the 331 in other ways as mentioned. I just hope the DPF Regen failure doesn't occur again, otherwise, have no regrets with the new machine.

 

[xring100]

1511 performance is way better than my previous 331, at least for my application. The 1511 is quite a bit heavier which is a huge advantage on steeper slopes, especially when turning. The 331 has lots of power (31 hp) as does the 1511 so I don't see much difference there even in tall grass. I don't have 20/20 hearing anymore, aka normal, so I can't hear the turbo. The new aerodynamic deck is improved with much less clumping of grass. 1511 steering responsiveness is better than the 331. I'm sure the 1511 uses more fuel than the 331 but I haven't calculated it exactly but will after a few more hours. The air ride seat is the main reason I got the 1511, but it is superior to the 331 in other ways as mentioned. I just hope the DPF Regen failure doesn't occur again, otherwise, have no regrets with the new machine.

I wish i could have upgraded the 1211 to the air ride seat as a factory option but preffered old school mechanical fuel injection over a dpf. Your first regen experience solidifies that decision. Best of luck. My cruze diesel has had a temp sensor, o2 sensor and def heater fault all under warranty

 

[sunnyside360]

I wish i could have upgraded the 1211 to the air ride seat as a factory option but preffered old school mechanical fuel injection over a dpf. Your first regen experience solidifies that decision. Best of luck. My cruze diesel has had a temp sensor, o2 sensor and def heater fault all under warranty

One dealer offered to install an air ride seat on the 1211 model -- said they have done it for others for around $1200. However he wasn't giving me much for my 2011 model 331 on trade. Haven't seen many 1211 issues on the internet. Good luck with your 1211.

 

[robert421960]

my l3301 hst is perfect for me and the only thing i suggest is keeping the rpms high to keep the regens down
other than that it starts every time

 

[xring100]

One dealer offered to install an air ride seat on the 1211 model -- said they have done it for others for around $1200. However he wasn't giving me much for my 2011 model 331 on trade. Haven't seen many 1211 issues on the internet. Good luck with your 1211.

I might have to talk to my dealer in the future or look up the parts, thanks for the suggestion. I've got 55 hours on it so far no hiccups. Just did the break in oil and filter service. The grease zircs on the shaft from the engine to trans are entertaining. A hoist would make that more fun

 

[sunnyside360]

I might have to talk to my dealer in the future or look up the parts, thanks for the suggestion. I've got 55 hours on it so far no hiccups. Just did the break in oil and filter service. The grease zircs on the shaft from the engine to trans are entertaining. A hoist would make that more fun

If it's anything like my 331, getting at some of the grease fittings isn't fun. Suspect the 1511 will be similar.

 

[sunnyside360]

The ZD1511-72 did it's second REGEN last evening. All went normal w/o any issue whatsoever. REGEN indicator came on at 21.8 and off at 22.1 hour meter reading all while mowing high thick grass. Performance was not affected but you could smell unusual odor. This is the way it's supposed to work and I'm happy with the machine. :dance1:

 

[xring100]

The ZD1511-72 did it's second REGEN last evening. All went normal w/o any issue whatsoever. REGEN indicator came on at 21.8 and off at 22.1 hour meter reading all while mowing high thick grass. Performance was not affected but you could smell unusual odor. This is the way it's supposed to work and I'm happy with the machine. :dance1:

Good to hear. Our cruise diesel doesnt tell you when its in regen but the 10-15 mpg hit on the 50 mile average is a good indicator. It also smells weird like its really hot if you get out of the in the middle of a regen

 

[Rmart30]

Not enough hours on these tier 4 tractors yet for the complaints to start. Give it 3 - 5 years and 1000+ hours of use for a more accurate appraisal
.
I work on construction equipment from small forklifts to large excavators. DPF have added a lot of problems and cost to machines.
I have a customer with 2 Yale forklifts right now with kubota engines that arent 3 years old that both need the DPF replaced at a cost of about $3k each.
Hours are 2200 and 2600 and these machines are ran hard all day long and not let to sit idle or babied to cause the problem.

Ive seen brand new $200k excavators need a DPF replaced in under 200 hours of use. No codes, no regen problems shown , nothing. Just stopped up and shut down. Factory response... we dont know why it did it. Fine and dandy when under warranty for the customer, but what happens when its out of warranty and clogs another DPF @ a cost of $5500 to the customer and the factory response is we dont know why, and it could do it again in another 200 hrs and at that time its not under warranty and its out of your pocket.

DPF are not owner friendly for repairs. They will require a laptop and soft ware or access code to enter the system and ck or clear codes or put into bypass regen.
When the DPF has problems sometimes ya go into derate, sometimes it shuts down and wont crank. Which will lead to having to call the dealer tech in to plug up to it, All added cost and downtime.

We need a thread in about 2020 on this topic for the real consensus of how they have worked.

 

[sunnyside360]

Not enough hours on these tier 4 tractors yet for the complaints to start. Give it 3 - 5 years and 1000+ hours of use for a more accurate appraisal
.
I work on construction equipment from small forklifts to large excavators. DPF have added a lot of problems and cost to machines.
I have a customer with 2 Yale forklifts right now with kubota engines that arent 3 years old that both need the DPF replaced at a cost of about $3k each.
Hours are 2200 and 2600 and these machines are ran hard all day long and not let to sit idle or babied to cause the problem.

Ive seen brand new $200k excavators need a DPF replaced in under 200 hours of use. No codes, no regen problems shown , nothing. Just stopped up and shut down. Factory response... we dont know why it did it. Fine and dandy when under warranty for the customer, but what happens when its out of warranty and clogs another DPF @ a cost of $5500 to the customer and the factory response is we dont know why, and it could do it again in another 200 hrs and at that time its not under warranty and its out of your pocket.

DPF are not owner friendly for repairs. They will require a laptop and soft ware or access code to enter the system and ck or clear codes or put into bypass regen.
When the DPF has problems sometimes ya go into derate, sometimes it shuts down and wont crank. Which will lead to having to call the dealer tech in to plug up to it, All added cost and downtime.

We need a thread in about 2020 on this topic for the real consensus of how they have worked.

Predict there is going to be an awful lot of angry tractor and equipment owners (orange, green, red) out there if DPF issues exist as described. I would have kept my older 2011 Kubota ZD331-72 Zturn mower had I known the risk couple of months ago. :shocked: