new mod.

[johara1]

the older 422 and 425 had 1" shafts, the newer ones that had the square back wheel motor are 1.25 tapered. the new high torque wheel motors at 2800 are out of price range.my motors are dan foss not white.......jim

 

[KentT]

Do you have 1" straight shafts, 1.25 tapered shafts, or 1.25 straight shafts on your machine??. The # codes I gave you are for ordering with 1" straight shafts. If terry gave you a part # of P141X12 than the RS200-200 series is the motor you have on your machine. The larger PT 425 motors are a P142X14 and have a 1.25 shaft if i'm not mistaken.

I'm not sure if they're 1" or 1.25", but pretty sure they're tapered, since they have a threaded end, a castle nut and cotter-pin.

Since I'm 900 miles away from my PT, I can't just go pull a wheel off and confirm...

Again, I called Terry and he looked it up. He told me it has 12ci White P141X wheelmotors...

 

[KentT]

the older 422 and 425 had 1" shafts, the newer ones that had the square back wheel motor are 1.25 tapered. the new high torque wheel motors at 2800 are out of price range.my motors are dan foss not white.......jim

I agree -- it's out of my price range also. That's about 40% of what I paid for this used PT two years ago, with low hours on it, complete with five attachments...

Before I spent that much money, I'd have someone fab me up some mounting boxes and mount 4 motors from Surplus Center. For under $1400 (plus shipping), I can get 17ci wheel motors with internal parking brakes. Actually, these 15.3ci ones would be tempting at this price, since they're a much better wheel motor, specifically designed with bearings for higher side-loads.... They'd give me roughly a 40% increase in torque -- plus brakes.

Surplus Center Item Detail

That leads me to another question -- are brake tenders essential for a system with the brakes built in? Both the wheel motors with interal brakes currently on Surplus Center specify that the pilot port will take full operating pressure. Couldn't you just put a two-way shuttle valve on the line and tie it to the pilot port so that operating pressures would release the brake?

What does a brake tender do for you exactly?

 

[MossRoad]

How do you plumb in the pilot line for the brake?

 

[KentT]

How do you plumb in the pilot line for the brake?

You use one of these... a bi-directional shuttle valve. It "tees" off a second line that you'd connect to the pilot port to release the brake.

Surplus Center Item Detail

My question is would some kind of accumulator be required to hold pressure on the wheel motors when the pressure drops as you go from forward to reverse.... Is this what a brake tender does?

 

[KentT]

I'm not sure if they're 1" or 1.25", but pretty sure they're tapered, since they have a threaded end, a castle nut and cotter-pin.

Since I'm 900 miles away from my PT, I can't just go pull a wheel off and confirm...

Again, I called Terry and he looked it up. He told me it has 12ci White P141X wheelmotors...

Rivco,

How are you cross-referencing the P141X to the White RS (i.e. 200) series wheel motors? I can't find that part number...

If they are RS series, then according to the specs they'd have a 1" tapered shaft...

 

[Rivco]

Rivco,

How are you cross-referencing the P141X to the White RS (i.e. 200) series wheel motors? I can't find that part number...

If they are RS series, then according to the specs they'd have a 1" tapered shaft...

Kent;
My mistake- the number should be:
200 200 F30 13 AAAAA
(series) (12.5 CI.) (4 flange ) (1" tapered shaft) (options)

I confirmed this with whites tech. support dept. If you look at page 13 (ordering info. ) of Whites web site ( catalog information- PDF. ) for the RS motors it will give you the breakdown on this motor. The 180 and according to terry ( from what he told you ) the earlier 422/425's use/used the same motor- P141X12. DISCLAIMER: I researched this information for my own interests, and I'm only going by what white hydraulics told me.You should contact white hydraulics and power trac to verify this information for your own use.

 

[KentT]

Kent;
My mistake- the number should be:
200 200 F30 13 AAAAA
(series) (12.5 CI.) (4 flange ) (1" tapered shaft) (options)

I confirmed this with whites tech. support dept. If you look at page 13 (ordering info. ) of Whites web site ( catalog information- PDF. ) for the RS motors it will give you the breakdown on this motor. The 180 and according to terry ( from what he told you ) the earlier 422/425's use/used the same motor- P141X12. DISCLAIMER: I researched this information for my own interests, and I'm only going by what white hydraulics told me.You should contact white hydraulics and power trac to verify this information for your own use.

Thanks for all your help, and your patience. I'm looking at several different options for different wheel motors now. However, this has now ruled out the "Stray mod" of changing from parallel to serial "plumbing" to increase the torque -- the 12.5 ci RS motors have a max pressure (peak) of 2250 PSI and 1500 PSI continuous. They won't handle the potential 3000 PSI of changing the plumbing...

The larger RS series White motors won't even comfortably handle the current 1500 PSI tram pump setting -- being rated for 1000 PSI continuous, 1250 PSI intermittent and 1500 PSI max. While they might work, on my hillsides I can see myself potentially spending too much time about the 1000 PSI point. So, that has me looking for other brand/type motors...

So far, I've gotten a good price quote for Char-Lynn Series W motors, and want to see if I can get a quote on Char-Lynn S series, since they would appear to require less modification. After looking at the S series specs more closely, I see that you can special order a 1" tapered shaft though it is not a "pre-specced" part number.

Since it appears I have 1" tapered shafts, if I go to 1.25" tapered shafts, like the Char-Lynn series W, I'd have to go to PT to buy the front hubs in order to use the parking brake, so that limits the options. I could likely order two hubs for the rear from Surplus Center. If I go to 1.375" tapered shafts, I think I'd be required to go to a different brake setup entirely...

Now I'm beginning to better understand why Terry's quote was so high -- though I still think it was out of my budget -- since the way they'd perform the upgrade would require new mounting "boxes", new wheel motors, and new hubs, in addition to the labor of removing the old mounting box and installing the new ones...

So, it looks like johari's mod may be the best alternative -- assuming that the physical size of the mounting boxes are the same on his tractor and mine... no new hubs, no new mounting box required....

 

[KentT]

it's very simple to get the specs.,get the tag it's like a washer found on the case drain fitting,it will be painted black.the info. is under the paint,clean it off (take care not remove the numbers under the paint they use)
that will give you the info. you need to cross reference it.go on eatons web site,go to char-lynn "s" series all you need to know is there.
the hub fit everthing fit, the only problem was the square hole in the body was too small for the larger char-lynn motor. i opened it up with a 4 1/2"grinder and some.045 cut off wheels.be carefull not cut something you don't want cut.also mark the hose in front so they go back on in the same position and connect the case drains.i ran it for a half an hour at 30% to break them and check for leaks.
seat of the pants.............wow....... nuff said jim

johari, I have a couple more questions about your Char-Lynn S-series motors:

1. Did you get two that are standard-rotation and two that are reverse-rotation to use on the opposite side of the tractor? You've apparently got special-order wheel motors, since I see you got case drains (which my tractor doesn't have). Case drains appear to be "special order" code, just like reverse rotation and the 1" tapered shaft.

2. How much grinding did you have to do to get the wheel motors to fit in that square hole in the body?

 

[KentT]

Thought I'd paste in these comparisons, since I just looked them up and PMed them to MR.
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It's about a 50% boost in torque and a 33% reduction in max speed -- though these are curves and not a true linear relationship. If I use the Charl-Lynn S series 18.2ci motors that johari did, replacing my 12.5ci White RS motors, then these are the differences -- rated at 1500 PSI max -- i.e. full throttle for max possible PSI.

At 2gpm flow:
old = 2642 in lb torque, 23 RPM
new = 4143 in lb torque, 5 RPM

at 4 gpm flow:
old = 2641 in lb torque, 60 RPM
new = 4345 in lb torque, 35 RPM

at 6 gpm flow:
old = 2634 in lb torque, 96 RPM
new = 4070 in lb torque, 60 RPM

at 8 gpm flow (max):
old = 2621 in lb torque, 133 RPM
new = 4020 in lb torque, 87 RPM

The charts don't show equivalent increments for performance at different PSI, so a direct comparison isn't possible except at the 1000 and 1500 PSI points. Here's the comparisons at 1000 PSI, in addition to the 1500 PSI comparisons above.

at 1000 PSI and 2gpm flow:
old = 1809 in lb torque, 31 RPM
new = 2515 in lb torque, 15 RPM

at 1000 PSI and 4 gpm flow:
old = 1798 in lb torque, 68 RPM
new = 2897 in lb torque, 38 RPM

at 1000 PSI and 6 gpm flow:
old = 1721 in lb torque, 108 RPM
new = 2694 in lb torque, 67 RPM

at 1000 PSI and 8 gpm flow:
old = 1697 in lb torque, 144 RPM
new = 2516 in lb torque, 94 RPM

Though you'd have to do the math to convert RPM to MPH at each point, I like the general idea of 6 MPH (instead of the rated 8MPH) and 50% more torque...

I'm going to get a price quote on special ordering the 18.2 ci Char-Lynn S series motors today, with tapered shafts and no case drains (which I need). I'll keep everyone posted...