new or used tractor for farm?

[dgl24087]

Don't let the age of the Case 495 scare you. It's a tough, heavy tractor with about the same HP as a 5103 Deere, for a lot less. I'd try to haggle a bit on it, $7500-8000 would be a fair price, and you can add an aftermarket loader from Bush Hog for about $4000 installed, at least that's what I priced one at a couple of years ago, albeit was for a 30 year old JD.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

At the risk of being a part of a "2WD vs 4WD" streetfight, here's my $.02 worth. I started farming on a small scale in 1970. At the biggest, I was farming under 250 acres. I've gone through a few tractors. Some were bought just to re-sell. Some were bought to "solve all my problems". Long and short, there's been a total of 8 tractors here that were bought SPECIFICALLY for my own use. 5 were bought NEW. Of those tractors, I bought ONE MFWD. It was nice to have, but WASN'T a life changing event. I sold it after less than 10 years on the farm. Too big, didn't need it any longer. Anyone who's spent time in KEntucky can tell you we don't have much "flat" land. Hills everywhere, rocks in most places. So hilly ground MIGHT be a reason you want 4wd, but it isn't neccissarily a REQUIRED item. The only real use for the MFWD tractor I had was pulling an 18' disc or a 7 shank chisel plow. I did just fine for all these years WITHOUT 4WD on all the balance of my tractors. Loader tractor was a 38 HP 2WD. Always did what was needed. 4WD's are handy, and seem to do a lot to make a smaller tractor perform more like something bigger AT TIMES. In the end, I never felt the urge to spend the money on something I just didn't need. You can find good deals on 2WD tractors that are big enough to handle average loader chores without 4WD. Often those bigger tractors sell for LESS than the ever-popular smaller 2WD "utility tractors". Me? I'd go that route. A bigger, heavier 2WD "AG" tractor will probably have bigger hydraulic capacity, heavier tranny, and being bigger physically, they have more inherent stability in most cases.

4WD is great. So is having some of your money left in the bank.

I still own and care for 45+ acres. I do that with either one of 3 (running)tractors I have, all 3 being 2WD, older (1971, 1974, and 1979 models) , and relatively common AG utilities. There's nothing I need to do that requires anything bigger, newer, more expensive, nor more "equipped" than what I have.

 

[dgl24087]

I don't know the details of that Case model, but if in good shape it's worth considering.

The JD 5103 is an excellent, basic tractor. The 2wd vs. 4wd issue has been discussed extensively in other threads. You should definitely look that up, but I won't repeat it here. If 2wd makes sense for you then I think a JD 5103 would be a great choice. It would also be worth looking at the 2wd versions of the Kubota MX5000 and M4800, and the New Holland tractor in that range (I think it is TD60 but I'm not sure - it's not the TN series which is bigger and more fancy). I would also ask the JD dealer about the 2wd version of the 5105 - it is the same size and looks very similar, but is slightly different mechanically.

Keep in mind that the 512 loader on a JD is a permanent attach loader which cannot be removed conveniently, unlike the 522 loader or many loaders on competing brands.

The New Holland tractor in the "no frills" category is the TT60A. My local dealer is running newspaper ads for this tractor at $14,200.

 

[john_bud]

This pond will be mainly for fishing (bluegill/bass/catfish) and aesthetic purposes -- that's why I want 2-3 acres. It would not be hard to make some small puddles like you suggest in some other areas, but they would probably dry out from time to time, because they are not in wet drainages. I like your ideas for the V and W food plot designs.

There are also about 6 or 7 acres of low bottomland that could be converted into shallow ponds of different sizes (waterfowl?) at some point. This area would be easy to keep flooded, because the spring starts at an elevation of about 60' above the bottomland.
I guess we're getting off the main subject..

R

Neat. A nice bluegill and sunny pond sounds like a little slice of heaven. When you have it made, if you can, add some character to it. A boomarang shape is better than a round hole. Also, have a spot that is deep put in 10-14' or more. Not a big area, between 50x100 and 100x100. Then you can have habitat for top water fish and some that like deeper cooler waters. Just a thought.


Yeah, many people just tear up some ground and toss seed. Then whine when there are no deer or that the deer only come after dark, etc. I do food plots for people and part of it is fixing messed up plans or lack of plans. If you want some more ideas, shoot me a PM.

jb

 

[wolc123]

These days you do not find many 2wd's doing tillage work on large Ag operations. They use significantly more fuel because they must push a "dead" axle through the soft ground, robbing a ton of power. When fuel was cheap, the extra cost of the front drive mechanism was not always justified, but today, in many cases, fuel savings will pay for it in less than one season. The large,2wd farm tractor has largely gone the way of the horse, it just consumes too much fuel to make it's use economical. For special cases, like mowing or baleing where most of the power is delivered thru the pto, a 2wd still makes sense.

 

[EddieWalker]

I think that you will be making a huge mistake if you buy a 2wd tractor.

I have a 80 hp 2wd, and a 34 hp 4wd. One had allot more power and in dry conditions, will do anything I want it to, then some. As soon as it rains, I have to wait a day to several days to use it. Hills, or just hauling a load on flat ground will stop me every time when I hit a wet spot.

My 4wd tractor can drive through just about anything and I don't even consider how dry the ground is to use it. The only times it has problems is when I'm bush hogging in a wet area and the weight of the bush hog sinks my rear end to the point the mower is floating on the surface and the tires can't get any traction.

You will get stuck in anything you own, but it's more likely that you will be able to work or run your tractor with 4wd when you cannot run a 2wd. Steering is also going to be a problme with a 2wd tractor in conditions that a 4wd one will easily drive through. I have a terrible time getting my 2wd tractor to turn when the front tires get in a muddy area.

Don't confuse farmers plowing field with there massive 2wd tractors with running a bush hog on your farm. There is a reason that you only see the county and right of way tractors that are 4wd. They run into all sorts of conditions and have to work every day.

Also be sure to recognize the terrain and soil differences from what you have to those who recomend 2wd. Flat land that is mostly sand is perfect for a 2wd tractor. In that sort of environment, it makes allot of sense to save money on 4wd and get more hp in a 2wd tractor. But in areas with hills, clay and mud, there is no good reason to ignore all the benifits of 4wd.

It really is a huge difference.

Eddie

 

[machmeter62]

These days you do not find many 2wd's doing tillage work on large Ag operations. They use significantly more fuel because they must push a "dead" axle through the soft ground, robbing a ton of power. When fuel was cheap, the extra cost of the front drive mechanism was not always justified, but today, in many cases, fuel savings will pay for it in less than one season. The large,2wd farm tractor has largely gone the way of the horse, it just consumes too much fuel to make it's use economical. For special cases, like mowing or baleing where most of the power is delivered thru the pto, a 2wd still makes sense.

You reinforce my beliefs about the "dead wheels" issue in soft soil; and steering control is increased also. In some cases, a smaller 4WD tractor can replace a larger one for some tasks in a smaller environment. I have two 2WD tractors; one is for orchard spraying, and the other will be used in parades someday!

 

[sandman2234]

If I were in your shoes and had a chance to buy a tractor like mine, I wouldn't hesitate. It is a 70 hp (65pto) 2wd Ag tractor equiped with R-1 Ags. Equiped with a loader, it would do everything you have mentioned and do it faster than most 4x4's with less hp, and I would still have money in the bank to buy a large batwing mower that a cut probably won't pull.
If you plan on doing a lot of mowing and getting stuck is a worry, add duals to a 2wd tractor for a little more traction.
When it comes to mowing, nothing beats pure raw horsepower, and a loader works better when it has lots of that stuff handy.(Hydraulics love hp!)
David from jax

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I think that you will be making a huge mistake if you buy a 2wd tractor.

I have a 80 hp 2wd, and a 34 hp 4wd. One had allot more power and in dry conditions, will do anything I want it to, then some. As soon as it rains, I have to wait a day to several days to use it. Hills, or just hauling a load on flat ground will stop me every time when I hit a wet spot.

My 4wd tractor can drive through just about anything and I don't even consider how dry the ground is to use it. The only times it has problems is when I'm bush hogging in a wet area and the weight of the bush hog sinks my rear end to the point the mower is floating on the surface and the tires can't get any traction.

You will get stuck in anything you own, but it's more likely that you will be able to work or run your tractor with 4wd when you cannot run a 2wd. Steering is also going to be a problme with a 2wd tractor in conditions that a 4wd one will easily drive through. I have a terrible time getting my 2wd tractor to turn when the front tires get in a muddy area.

Don't confuse farmers plowing field with there massive 2wd tractors with running a bush hog on your farm. There is a reason that you only see the county and right of way tractors that are 4wd. They run into all sorts of conditions and have to work every day.

Also be sure to recognize the terrain and soil differences from what you have to those who recomend 2wd. Flat land that is mostly sand is perfect for a 2wd tractor. In that sort of environment, it makes allot of sense to save money on 4wd and get more hp in a 2wd tractor. But in areas with hills, clay and mud, there is no good reason to ignore all the benifits of 4wd.

It really is a huge difference.

Eddie

Hills? Anyone who's ever been in Kentucky can tell you about our "hills". We have more than enough, and they're more than steep enough.

Clay soils and mud? If it's not rock, it's clay here. Mud abounds 9 months of the year.

I've cleared 190 acres of steep, rocky, hilly, muddy ground......with 2WD. Sold that and now I'm working on another 45 acres needing clearing.....with 2wd.

I cleared my 1/2 mile driveway of sometimes deep snow for years......with 2wd

For 35 years I fed cattle every day, slick or not, frozen and snow covered or not, spring mud or not, and was never unable to get where I needed to go......with 2wd.

I bush hog pond banks, steep hills, and ditch lines.....with 2wd.

I did own a MFWD tractor for less than 10 years. I used it to chisel plow with. Never had any other need for it. In the approx. 1400 hours I logged on that tractor, MAYBE 20 hours of it was with the front end "locked in".

If there was mud so deep my 2wd tractors wouldn't go..... I'd go AROUND or wait 'till it dried up. Would have done the exact same thing even had I been on a 4WD. Why trash the tractor "just because I can"?

The advantages of heavy tillage with 4WD? On average, how many present day tractor owners spend prolonged time in the field plowing? In those instances, how many do it on a large scale, or even every year? Not enough to make that the deciding factor I'd venture a guess.

Over the years, I've got stuck with my tractors 4 times total. Once was with the MFWD 4250 Deere. It took a semi-wrecker and its winch to "unstuck" it. 3 other times were with 2WD. In those 3 instances, TEN WHEEL DRIVE wouldn't have made a difference. Even it 4wd would have "saved the day", that's 3 times, maybe an hours use, out of well over 15,000 hours I've logged over the years. Not enough in my book to change tractors.

So far I haven't seen a reason why I need 4WD. MUCH less expensive 2WD's give you the financial option of more HP, weight, and built-in strength with far LESS of a disadvantage that most will admit. Add to that, the simplicity of 2WD tractors. The ability to do ones own mechanical work is VERY important to some of us. Working on 4WD isn't brain surgery, but it's another complication that many of us just don't need. If I was going to own ONE tractor, and it was to be a relatively small tractor, I MIGHT relent and buy MFWD again. Most likely, I'd still opt for a less expensive yet bigger, more powerfull 2WD.

With 4WD, a smaller tractor can find the traction of a bigger, heavier tractor. So yes, a SMALL 4wd can do some of the things a bigger tractor can do. Are there things that smaller tractor CAN'T do? Odds are favorable that a larger tractor will have bigger hydraulic capacity, more inherent stability on hills due to increased size, more operator room, ect.

So to say buying a 2WD tractor is a huge mistake is a huge mistake in and of itself.

4WD has its advantages in certain cases. I won't say it isn't nice to have available. It's just an expensive option that the majority of people don't need nearly as bad as they THINK they do, or tractor manufacturers would lead you to believe.

Maybe I should keep my opinions to myself. With everyone thinking you HAVE to have 4WD, and 2WD's being "a huge mistake", the price of good used 2WD's is even more affordable. Shoot down the theory that everyone HAS to have 4WD, and I might be paying more for my NEXT tractor......a 2WD.

 

[Oleozz]

All good, convincing arguments both for and against. I will say that we live about as rural as you can get and I am starting to see more big 4wd tractors used by farmers. On a short drive to my brothers house to check his heat I saw two farmers using 4wd tractors to haul out manure. In this farming area most of the field work is done with the big 2 wd jobs, many of the smaller tractors are 4 wd. I would love to have a big International 1066 sitting in my shed to do the hard field work and the 2wd would work just fine for that.