MossRoad
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- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
Well, at least you got some positive response. Thank goodness!
New PT, New Problems
- Thread starter marrt
- Start date
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Anonymous Poster
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I have a 422 and last year the cooling fan stopped working. The fuse was blown, I replaced it with another, and it too blew. I spun the fan and the bearings sounded worn. I called PT, Don, they sent a new fan.
No problems to date.
andrew
No problems to date.
andrew
Scott_F
Silver Member
marrt,
I finally had a chance to take a closer look at my fan this afternoon. I had already spun it by hand and it seemed ok, so I put in another fuse and jumped the relay. It ran (and sounded) fine - I ran it for about 15-20 seconds. So I guess I could try it again, except now there's one more problem...my battery is leaking too! Not as bad as yours, but there is definitely some fluid seeping from the forward cap. I can't decide whether to try it for a while and keep a close eye on it or just go ahead and pull it. I checked the Interstate web site and there are a few dealers locally so I might call some of them in the morning and see if any of them have one in stock. That muffler sure looks like a pain to get off.
It's kind of disappointing to have to do this much fixing on such a new machine - I'd rather be working with it, not on it.
Scott
I finally had a chance to take a closer look at my fan this afternoon. I had already spun it by hand and it seemed ok, so I put in another fuse and jumped the relay. It ran (and sounded) fine - I ran it for about 15-20 seconds. So I guess I could try it again, except now there's one more problem...my battery is leaking too! Not as bad as yours, but there is definitely some fluid seeping from the forward cap. I can't decide whether to try it for a while and keep a close eye on it or just go ahead and pull it. I checked the Interstate web site and there are a few dealers locally so I might call some of them in the morning and see if any of them have one in stock. That muffler sure looks like a pain to get off.
It's kind of disappointing to have to do this much fixing on such a new machine - I'd rather be working with it, not on it.
Scott
OP
marrt
Platinum Member
Well, this is certainly starting to sound suspicious. Maybe PT hired a new guy (or gal) and he hooked something up wrong. I guess I’ll dig out the manual this w/e and see if there’s a wiring diagram included. Since tomorrow’s Friday, I may also give PT a call to see if they have found any problems with other units recently. PT’s volume is so low that it may take a while for a problem to show up. Better go ahead and put them on notice so they are aware of the problem.
WRT the battery leak, I would be careful. If the battery leaks enough to get on the paint, it will definitely eat the paint away. This is a pain in the you know what as you then really need to repaint the affected area. You make want to make sure the caps are on tight.
The battery PT uses is much bigger than required by Kohler. I’m going to replace my “Flooded” battery with an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) battery I picked up at Sears. The AGM battery is sealed and should not leak unless I overcharge it with too much voltage.
I hope to know more when I have time to work on the tractor this weekend.
WRT the battery leak, I would be careful. If the battery leaks enough to get on the paint, it will definitely eat the paint away. This is a pain in the you know what as you then really need to repaint the affected area. You make want to make sure the caps are on tight.
The battery PT uses is much bigger than required by Kohler. I’m going to replace my “Flooded” battery with an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) battery I picked up at Sears. The AGM battery is sealed and should not leak unless I overcharge it with too much voltage.
I hope to know more when I have time to work on the tractor this weekend.
Scott_F
Silver Member
<font color=red>muffler sure looks like a pain to get off</font color=red>
Well, not so bad after all. I thought the nuts looked like they would be harder to get at than they were. Anyway, I took the muffler off so I can get the battery out in the morning. I attached a pic of what my battery looks like now. Like I said earlier, not as bad as marrt's but it is leaking. I guess I should assume it will leak more if I run it a while? I think I'll get it out and take it to a dealer.
BTW, the nuts on the muffler didn't seem to be very tight. Anyone have any suggestion on an approximate torque value for when I put it back on?
Scott
Well, not so bad after all. I thought the nuts looked like they would be harder to get at than they were. Anyway, I took the muffler off so I can get the battery out in the morning. I attached a pic of what my battery looks like now. Like I said earlier, not as bad as marrt's but it is leaking. I guess I should assume it will leak more if I run it a while? I think I'll get it out and take it to a dealer.
BTW, the nuts on the muffler didn't seem to be very tight. Anyone have any suggestion on an approximate torque value for when I put it back on?
Scott
Attachments
Scott,
Have you taken battery voltage readings when the engine is running at full throttle. Take readings with the lights on, fan on and then off.
Trying to brain storm all the things that would cause the battery to leak out the cover plates.
1. Over charge
2. Battery too full with electrolyte and traveling over rough ground.
3. Overheating?
4. System short?
Any others. Keep us informed on what you find. I have found Power Trac to be very customer service orientated.
Duane
Have you taken battery voltage readings when the engine is running at full throttle. Take readings with the lights on, fan on and then off.
Trying to brain storm all the things that would cause the battery to leak out the cover plates.
1. Over charge
2. Battery too full with electrolyte and traveling over rough ground.
3. Overheating?
4. System short?
Any others. Keep us informed on what you find. I have found Power Trac to be very customer service orientated.
Duane
Scott_F
Silver Member
Just spoke with Terry at PT.
As marrt said earlier, he sounded pretty surprised by the leaking battery. He didn't think it could be over-voltage because he said the regulator on these machines is not much more than a trickle charger. He thought the battery might just have been overfilled. He suggested washing it with baking soda. I spoke with one of the local Interstate dealers and he said that if it's leaking "obviously it needs to be replaced." So I think since I already have the muffler off, I'll pull the battery and take it in to get checked out.
For the fan, Terry suggested trying a 20 amp fuse. He said the wiring will safely handle that amount of current. So I guess I'll give that a shot.
Will keep you posted.
-Scott
As marrt said earlier, he sounded pretty surprised by the leaking battery. He didn't think it could be over-voltage because he said the regulator on these machines is not much more than a trickle charger. He thought the battery might just have been overfilled. He suggested washing it with baking soda. I spoke with one of the local Interstate dealers and he said that if it's leaking "obviously it needs to be replaced." So I think since I already have the muffler off, I'll pull the battery and take it in to get checked out.
For the fan, Terry suggested trying a 20 amp fuse. He said the wiring will safely handle that amount of current. So I guess I'll give that a shot.
Will keep you posted.
-Scott
OP
marrt
Platinum Member
Scott, it’s hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like the battery is starting to leak from both sides. True? How many hours do you have on the machine? Although I only have three hours, I have used the tractor in some very rough terrain for most of that time moving dirt. I originally loosened the dirt with a middle buster plow on my 8N so you can imagine it’s a pretty rough area. Therefore, the back was being tossed around A LOT. So much so that the leak could be from the movement alone I think (although PT doubts this theory). If you get a chance, also take a cap off and see how full the battery is filled.
One other question for the “engineers”. If we measure the voltage at the battery terminal, with the tractor running at full RPMs, how will we know we are measuring the regulator voltage, and not just the battery voltage. I guess, in this case, it may not be relevant as we are only trying to see if the regulator is providing too much voltage. But what if we were checking to see if it were providing too little voltage? How would we measure?
One other question for the “engineers”. If we measure the voltage at the battery terminal, with the tractor running at full RPMs, how will we know we are measuring the regulator voltage, and not just the battery voltage. I guess, in this case, it may not be relevant as we are only trying to see if the regulator is providing too much voltage. But what if we were checking to see if it were providing too little voltage? How would we measure?
Charlie_Iliff
Veteran Member
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Marrt:
I certainly don't claim to be an engineer, but I have some experience handling and mishandling batteries. One source I recall said that charging a lead acid battery to 13.8 volts was overcharge, and below 10.1 was deep discharge, either of which could damage the battery. That is referring to testing the battery by itself after charging or discharging. When you put the meter on the battery with engine running, you measure the voltage that the regulator is allowing the system to apply to the battery. Typically, it is at least 13 volts, and often over 14 depending on the type of regulator. Anything below 13 probably means the charging system isn't working. If it is way above 13, say 17, then the regulator isn't working right. I think Terry's point is that the charging system can't deliver much amperage in any event, so it couldn't deliver enough to damage or boil the battery even if the voltage weren't regulated as low as it should be.
I'd bet you're looking at caps that aren't sealing properly in rough running, or perhaps heat, rather than any overcharge, but I've often guessed wrong about things electrical.
Keep us posted.
I certainly don't claim to be an engineer, but I have some experience handling and mishandling batteries. One source I recall said that charging a lead acid battery to 13.8 volts was overcharge, and below 10.1 was deep discharge, either of which could damage the battery. That is referring to testing the battery by itself after charging or discharging. When you put the meter on the battery with engine running, you measure the voltage that the regulator is allowing the system to apply to the battery. Typically, it is at least 13 volts, and often over 14 depending on the type of regulator. Anything below 13 probably means the charging system isn't working. If it is way above 13, say 17, then the regulator isn't working right. I think Terry's point is that the charging system can't deliver much amperage in any event, so it couldn't deliver enough to damage or boil the battery even if the voltage weren't regulated as low as it should be.
I'd bet you're looking at caps that aren't sealing properly in rough running, or perhaps heat, rather than any overcharge, but I've often guessed wrong about things electrical.
Keep us posted.
Scott_F
Silver Member
marrt,
Just got back from the Interstate dealer. He said the leakage was because the caps weren't quite tight. He cleaned it up, tested it and it was fine. I just put it back in before I logged on. After I finish lunch I'll see how it goes. Also bought some 20 amp fuses, but since I have a good 10 amp in it now I think I'll see if it lasts before I put a 20 in.
I have about 8 hours on mine, mostly mowing - but my "yard" is still pretty rough so it does get shaken around a bit. I'm going to add "check battery caps tight" to the preflight checklist.
Scott
Just got back from the Interstate dealer. He said the leakage was because the caps weren't quite tight. He cleaned it up, tested it and it was fine. I just put it back in before I logged on. After I finish lunch I'll see how it goes. Also bought some 20 amp fuses, but since I have a good 10 amp in it now I think I'll see if it lasts before I put a 20 in.
I have about 8 hours on mine, mostly mowing - but my "yard" is still pretty rough so it does get shaken around a bit. I'm going to add "check battery caps tight" to the preflight checklist.
Scott
Marrt,
Measure the voltage at the battery with engine off. It should be between 12 and 13 volts. With the engine on, it should read higher, upto to 14 - 14.5 volts. Kohler gives a range in their manual.
The battery caps are vented, so a little leakage over rough terrain is possible. As the battery heats up, the electrolyte expands, and if too full cold, it would overflow. Probably a good idea for PT owners to install battery trays to catch any leakage.
Keep us informed and good luck.
Measure the voltage at the battery with engine off. It should be between 12 and 13 volts. With the engine on, it should read higher, upto to 14 - 14.5 volts. Kohler gives a range in their manual.
The battery caps are vented, so a little leakage over rough terrain is possible. As the battery heats up, the electrolyte expands, and if too full cold, it would overflow. Probably a good idea for PT owners to install battery trays to catch any leakage.
Keep us informed and good luck.
Anonymous Poster
Epic Contributor
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- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 29,678
I feel your pain.....Although not related to your Power-Trac woes,I have found that quality control in manufacturing seems to be at an all time low.Warrenty is parts,not labor,so that replacement is almost not a cost for most manufacturers.I am in the service industry,and have had more "new right out of the box" parts and equipment failure(including defective parts to replace the defective part) in the last year,to just about destroy my faith in "buy new,or you'll just be buying someone else's headache.
Manufacturers have discovered that it is more cost effective to replace "errors" in the field than to test their product before shipment....
Only a minor reflection onto Power-Trac,as I do admire their product.They ,however,do function in a "lowest bidder,best bang for the buck"enviorment in respect to their component suppliers,and and get hosed with to"so sorry,will send you a replacement part"(you'll have to wait a day or so for the replacement,sorry for the inconvience)
The ony way this sort of aggrevation is ever going to cease for the end user is if all components are manufactured in house,and all finished products are throughly tested before shipment......
Manufacturers have discovered that it is more cost effective to replace "errors" in the field than to test their product before shipment....
Only a minor reflection onto Power-Trac,as I do admire their product.They ,however,do function in a "lowest bidder,best bang for the buck"enviorment in respect to their component suppliers,and and get hosed with to"so sorry,will send you a replacement part"(you'll have to wait a day or so for the replacement,sorry for the inconvience)
The ony way this sort of aggrevation is ever going to cease for the end user is if all components are manufactured in house,and all finished products are throughly tested before shipment......
pajoube
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2001
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- 2,225
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- Montana (Near Bozeman)
- Tractor
- Former Owner PowerTrac 425 (September 2003)
On the other hand, PT and other sellers of quality products must take a stand with their suppliers. A defective part on a tractor reflects back on PT just as much as the manufacture of the part. PT and others are going to have to demand quality from their suppliers or their image will go down as well.
PJ
PJ
OP
marrt
Platinum Member
I finally found time this weekend to put everything back together. Two coats of Rustolium primer and two coats of Rusolium “John Deere Green.” For those interested, this color matches the PT Green almost perfectly. I really can’t tell the difference. That’s good because I was not able to locate the actual color from Sherwin Williams and I didn’t want to wait for PT to send me some.
I chose an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) battery from Sears to replace to Interstate battery. The AGM battery should be absolutely maintenance free and should not leak under normal conditions. This battery is marketed as a wheel chair battery and is almost a perfect fit (model 27131). I paid $67 for the battery. However, there was some confusion as to the correct price (it may cost about $20 more as Sears could not determine the correct price). I tested the battery voltage before installation and it registered 11.3 volts. Obviously, the battery needed charging but I installed it anyway as I don’t have a charger and didn’t want to wait. It cranked the PT just fine. At full throttle, I registered 12.3 volts. I think the earlier comments about the Kohler charger being basically a “trickle charger” are correct.
So, what caused the battery to overflow? I’m not entirely sure but I now think the muffler is partially to blame. After running the tractor for an hour, I checked the voltage again and it was same as before. However, the positive terminal, which, on this battery, is directly under the muffler, was too hot to touch. It had to be 150 degrees or better. The air flow coming around the right cylinder (from the rear) “reflects” off the muffler down onto the battery. This, in turn, heats the battery. The original equipment muffler is round and probably does not have this problem. I intend to call PT tomorrow and ask them how long they have used this muffler on the 425. Not long I suspect. I may see how much a “round” muffler costs and replace mine. In the brochure for the 2425, this muffler is used with an insulating cover and the same engine. This could be another option. The battery was so hot that, when I put water on it to cool it off, I could see steam rising. Given that the life expectancy of any battery degreases by 50% for every 15 degrees above 77 degrees, this will definitely cause the battery to fail in no time flat. Stay tuned.
With regard to the fan, I jumped the relay and the fan ran fine. I then put a 15 amp fuse in, replacing the 10 amp fuse, and it did not fail in 1.5 hours mowing. Scott, you may want to swap the 20 amp fuse PT recommended with a 15 amp fuse. No reason to go all the way to 20 amps if it’s not needed.
Otherwise, the tractor performed like a dream. I really like the rear discharge mower. There is a small 4 inch wide windrow on the right side of the mower. However, I overlap each row about 6-8 inches and that solves the problem. I wish the steering wheel was more responsive however. I installed a spinner knob and it helps a lot. When I get time, I will take some pictures of my “great earth moving project.” It’s really impressive what this machine can do with a little patience. Later.
I chose an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) battery from Sears to replace to Interstate battery. The AGM battery should be absolutely maintenance free and should not leak under normal conditions. This battery is marketed as a wheel chair battery and is almost a perfect fit (model 27131). I paid $67 for the battery. However, there was some confusion as to the correct price (it may cost about $20 more as Sears could not determine the correct price). I tested the battery voltage before installation and it registered 11.3 volts. Obviously, the battery needed charging but I installed it anyway as I don’t have a charger and didn’t want to wait. It cranked the PT just fine. At full throttle, I registered 12.3 volts. I think the earlier comments about the Kohler charger being basically a “trickle charger” are correct.
So, what caused the battery to overflow? I’m not entirely sure but I now think the muffler is partially to blame. After running the tractor for an hour, I checked the voltage again and it was same as before. However, the positive terminal, which, on this battery, is directly under the muffler, was too hot to touch. It had to be 150 degrees or better. The air flow coming around the right cylinder (from the rear) “reflects” off the muffler down onto the battery. This, in turn, heats the battery. The original equipment muffler is round and probably does not have this problem. I intend to call PT tomorrow and ask them how long they have used this muffler on the 425. Not long I suspect. I may see how much a “round” muffler costs and replace mine. In the brochure for the 2425, this muffler is used with an insulating cover and the same engine. This could be another option. The battery was so hot that, when I put water on it to cool it off, I could see steam rising. Given that the life expectancy of any battery degreases by 50% for every 15 degrees above 77 degrees, this will definitely cause the battery to fail in no time flat. Stay tuned.
With regard to the fan, I jumped the relay and the fan ran fine. I then put a 15 amp fuse in, replacing the 10 amp fuse, and it did not fail in 1.5 hours mowing. Scott, you may want to swap the 20 amp fuse PT recommended with a 15 amp fuse. No reason to go all the way to 20 amps if it’s not needed.
Otherwise, the tractor performed like a dream. I really like the rear discharge mower. There is a small 4 inch wide windrow on the right side of the mower. However, I overlap each row about 6-8 inches and that solves the problem. I wish the steering wheel was more responsive however. I installed a spinner knob and it helps a lot. When I get time, I will take some pictures of my “great earth moving project.” It’s really impressive what this machine can do with a little patience. Later.
MossRoad
Super Moderator
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- Messages
- 66,747
- Location
- South Bend, Indiana (near)
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- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
Glad you found a good battery choice for replacement.
The muffler problem is disturbing. It shouldn't have been released from the factory in that configuration. Is power trac taking any responsibility for this problem? In my opinion, they should.
My engine compartment gets hot with the round muffler as well. The next time I mow, I'll check the area around the battery just to make sure. If I remember, I'll use the meat thermometer.
The paint choice is also good to know. I'll try it instead of what power trac sent me when I do my 50 hour service, which is coming up soon. I plan on giving the machine a thorough cleaning and documentation of what's right and wrong at this interval.
My mower leaves a small windrow on the right side if the grass is long as well. I might try some different blades next year just for fun. Someone mentioned universal blades. Maybe they make some with higher lift. I raised the cutting height to the second to last holes on the rear wheels and one spacer ring on the front wheels on the 60" deck today. I noticed a small to almost none windrow. And I want to keep the grass longer this year so I don't have to water as much.
Looking forward to the pictures of the earth moving project.
Thanks for the updates.
The muffler problem is disturbing. It shouldn't have been released from the factory in that configuration. Is power trac taking any responsibility for this problem? In my opinion, they should.
My engine compartment gets hot with the round muffler as well. The next time I mow, I'll check the area around the battery just to make sure. If I remember, I'll use the meat thermometer.
The paint choice is also good to know. I'll try it instead of what power trac sent me when I do my 50 hour service, which is coming up soon. I plan on giving the machine a thorough cleaning and documentation of what's right and wrong at this interval.
My mower leaves a small windrow on the right side if the grass is long as well. I might try some different blades next year just for fun. Someone mentioned universal blades. Maybe they make some with higher lift. I raised the cutting height to the second to last holes on the rear wheels and one spacer ring on the front wheels on the 60" deck today. I noticed a small to almost none windrow. And I want to keep the grass longer this year so I don't have to water as much.
Looking forward to the pictures of the earth moving project.
Thanks for the updates.
PTRich
Gold Member
I was the one who got the universal blades, I bought them at Home Depot, they are high lift and I now have little or no hedge rows. On another note: a friend of mine uses mixed gas in his regular 4 cycle Honda motor with little problem. I ran very low on gas and used mixed gas. After a while my spark plugs fowled, I also think my fuel filter is not runinng properly. Oh well, live and learn.
deadstick
Silver Member
Next time I'm heavily using the PT I'll check the temp around the battery to see if it too hot for the touch... I have the same muffler configuration as you and have run 3hrs in 92+ degree heat with no battery problems.
bryce
Bronze Member
Moss Road. Does the grass from the rear of your mower throw any grass into, or onto, the front of the machine? Does the 25hp Kohler have enough power to mow heavy wet grass going up a hill? Robert
Scott_F
Silver Member
<font color=red>Scott, you may want to swap the 20 amp fuse PT recommended with a 15 amp fuse</font color=red>
I was thinking that too, but after I tested the fan with a 10 amp fuse, cleaned the battery and put it all back together it ran fine for an hour+ with the 10 amp. I don't get it, but at least everything seems to be working fine. I'll try and remember to check how hot the battery is next time I use it. Glad you're back up and running too.
Scott
I was thinking that too, but after I tested the fan with a 10 amp fuse, cleaned the battery and put it all back together it ran fine for an hour+ with the 10 amp. I don't get it, but at least everything seems to be working fine. I'll try and remember to check how hot the battery is next time I use it. Glad you're back up and running too.
Scott
MossRoad
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- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
There is a little grass on the very front "shelf" where the loader arms attach. It is not much at all. I have a very flat yard, so there are no hills to mow. I try not to mow when it is wet, so I have no experience with that. I have heard that the 60" mower does not do so well up hill in wet heavy stuff. As recall from other posts, the engine starts to bog down and traction becomes an issue.
Anyone else want to speak up on the issue of the PT425 mowing wet grass up hill?
I do have some experience with the 48" brush mower. It has plenty of power in wet heavy stuff. I was mowing in light snow. The only reason I stopped was due to me being cold and wet. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Anyone else want to speak up on the issue of the PT425 mowing wet grass up hill?
I do have some experience with the 48" brush mower. It has plenty of power in wet heavy stuff. I was mowing in light snow. The only reason I stopped was due to me being cold and wet. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
