New T300 FEL Problems

[les.houston]

I received a possible fix action from LAWALLSTRACTOR. May be air leaking around rubber to metal surfaces on the suction side. They had a similar problem with a Mahindra model line before. I sent the info to my dealer for them to look into it.

Thanks, Galen, from NY on this info!

Les

 

[les.houston]

From the increase of views of this thread, it looks like some of you are interested in what's going on...

Latest update: Dealer coming over to pick up Baby tomorrow. Going to take it back to their shop, replace loader valve again (still not convinced it is the valve this time), unhook all the lines and blow them out, flush all the hydraulic fluid, clean and double clamp the rubber to metal surfaces ( many thanks to Galen from NY on this!), and give Baby a working test to see if the problems come back.

I will keep you posted of the progress or regress...

 

[les.houston]

Update - The dealer replaced the factory-provided joystick loader valve (3rd one on the tractor in 9 months), blew all the lines out, double clamped the rubber to metal connections on the suction side of the pump, refilled the system with new hydraulic fluid. They bled the air, worked "Baby" for a while and she did good at first, then like clockwork, began to get the same spongy cylinders and poor response in the FEL. They bled the system and repeated with the same outcome...(3 times).

Air is still getting into the system from somewhere. Not sure what their next move will be, but sure hope it is something soon.

I do have to say though, the guys at Coleman Equipment (Steeleville, IL), especially Kenny, have been super throughout this. Kenny offered up a "loaner" tractor for me while mine is out of commission. It is the TYM 433, and while it was tempting to accept his offer, it wasn't a factory-backed loaner and if something were to happen to it while I had it, it would be on Coleman's shoulders and loss.

I declined his offer at this time. I am not greedy. If corporate TYM sanctions the loan of a machine, then I will think about it.

More to follow...

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

It seems to me that the only places air could be introduced into the system, would have to be a leak in the suction lines, filter, or the pump itself. The rest of the system would be under pressure.

 

[Eagleview]

Les , how about a couple of photos of the lift and crowd rams on the loader . Where are the hose fittings , on top , on the side or on the bottom ? Are the lift rams double acting ? The dealer is just trying the same things over and over , they are bound to get the same results . Even if the the suction side has an air leak , you should just get a squawk out of the pump and a jerky response , the air should be able to get back out of the rams and self bleed . It should not accumulate to the point you can bounce the spongy loader by hand . If the hoses on the rams are on the bottom of the cylinders ie the rams are upside down , it would be possible for this to happen as the air would be trapped at the top of the cylinder .

 

[les.houston]

I don't have the tractor close to take any pics of it. It is 70 miles from home right now. I did pull up some pics I found on a dealer's site and it shows the fittings on the sides of the cylinders for both the lift and curl.

I just got an email from my dealer and said TYM is sending out a new pump for them to try that. They are even sending a new set of curling cylinders, but we don't think those are the problem as the mechanic has tested them and they do not have any bleed-by or leaks, but who knows at this point.

I did relay the message about trapped air and they will look into it...thanks for the tip!

Les

 

[carpenter383]

les. I have'nt read through all your posts, but have you tried bleeding the air by holding the fel lever in fast dump (regen) for a few secs?
My kioti gets the "floppy bucket" if I use the fel below about 1600 rpms. If I keep it reved up some it dosen't get floppy.

 

[les.houston]

Yes...both the dealer and I have tried this. This was actually a recommendation from the factory to lift the loader all the way up and hold for 20 to 30 seconds and then curl the bucket down and hold for like time.

The factory also said I should be running the tractor at PTO speed to use the hydraulics.

I have been running all flavors of tractors and backhoes for 30+ years now and have NEVER had to run one more than 1,300 to 1,600 RPM to operate the hydraulics in a normal fashion. The exceptions being that more lift or power was needed for a short duration, but for normal operation, I will not run it like that. That is a good way to just tear up stuff quicker.

I appreciate the tip though, I am running out of ideas. You would think the Engineers at the factory would have some ideas...

If you think of anything else, please let me know.

Thanks,

Les

 

[Eagleview]

These guys talk nonsense sometimes , running the loader at low revs ONLY has the loader working slower than at high revs . It will not cause air to get into the system , if that were the case , common sense would/should tell them that higher revs would cause more air .

 

[carpenter383]

These guys talk nonsense sometimes , running the loader at low revs ONLY has the loader working slower than at high revs . It will not cause air to get into the system , if that were the case , common sense would/should tell them that higher revs would cause more air .

I am speaking from experience on my own tractor. Why in the world would I just make it up? I'm not a liar nor do I try to mislead people.
Running my tractor at idle while doing fel work causes a floppy bucket. It's something to do with gpm not keeping up with cylinder travel, this creates a void behind the cylinder causing the floppy bucket.
You need to do some research on the subject before you try to discredit my response.

 

[Eagleview]

The factory also said I should be running the tractor at PTO speed to use the hydraulics.

A bit paranoid there carpenter , who said I was talking about you ?

 

[Tim C.]

Have they changed the hyd. pump?

My guess is the pump. Hence, the good cold, bad hot operations. Internal seal issues.

Tim

 

[les.houston]

They are scheduled to swap the pump today or tomorrow, depending on when the parts arrive at the dealer.

To Carpenter's post about low revs...I agree that is what can cause the "floppy bucket" affect. Especially if the bucket is loaded and it drops quicker than the gpm can keep up with. The TYM engineers made mention of this.
When the air is bled from my T300, it snaps like a champ at low and high speeds, so I believe my system is a good system. When I notice the "floppy bucket syndrome", I can run the RPMs up and it has the same affect. That is when I know air has gotten back in.

How I test for this to be certain, is I extend (curl down) the bucket to about 30 degrees. I lower the boom arms down to a flat surface, engaging the bucket blade. I watch the curl cylinders when I put downward pressure and see if they compress into themselves. Every time so far, they have. The last time in particular, I measured them at just under 6" of compression. That doesn't do me or the tractor any good.

I am posting all this information in hopes this helps not only myself, but others. Therefore, I beg and plead that none of us argue amongst ourselves in this thread. It doesn't do any of us any good. Thank You...

I really hope the pump swap does the trick. I need my Baby back to get some work done. I am tearing down some old log cabins this winter while the critters are asleep and plan on salvaging as many as the logs as possible. Having the pallet forks on Baby will make this a much easier task. Also beats abusing my back any more than I already have over the years!

Thanks to Everyone!

Les

 

[les.houston]

Well...Good News!

With the pump replacement, curl cylinder replacement, loader valve replacement, and "Clean the Paint off suction metal to rubber connections and double clamps" fix suggestion, it looks like Baby is performing like she should.

I was able to lift a 5'x7'x4' metal container with contents weighing about 1,300 with no problems. I ran the loader for a while and no compression of the curl cylinders, nor the floppy bucket occured.

I have to say that TYM really came through on this took care of the issue. The guys at Coleman have been super through this whole thing and I can't thank them enough.

I will create a post that talks about the Pros for the T300 since I have not see any other posts on the T300s yet.

 

[Grut]

Great News! Glad to hear that they took care of it, a bit reassuring for all of us TYM owners.
Now it is time to line up some projects and enjoy the tractor.

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

I am glad to hear the problem is solved. Do you know what solved the problem? From the way things transpired I am guessing the pump was putting air in the system. Anyhow, glad to hear it is fixed.

 

[les.houston]

To be honest, Galen, I don't think they narrowed it down 100%, but are perhaps attributing it to the pump as the main culprit. I think the metal to rubber connections were a part of it as well, but in the end, it was the pump.

I did some research on other sections of this community in the Hydraulics section and I found several posts with similar conditions and symptoms on different brands. From what I could discover, it looks like they were pump issues too. I am wondering if there were a batch of bad pumps that went out from the manufacturer to several tractor companies. It is quite possible I suppose.

I hope this stays fixed and I can use Baby for what I bought her for...

Thanks for your advice.

Les