New User Moderators

[Muhammad]

We would never edit posts if everyone followed the guidelines. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif But because some people post things like big images, links that are long strings of characters, bad links, etc, we have to edit the messages to clean them up and try to keep everything as consistent as possible, while keeping the needs of all users in mind. The majority of the visitors of this forum are on dial-up connections, so we want to reduce inline images and keep them under a certain file size and width. Believe me, if it were up to me we would never edit messages at all... but a long time ago I made the decision to keep this forum clean in appearance and consistent in formatting... the edit tag is there so you know that your post was changed. Nobody here will be able to say that the content of their post was changed, because it has never happened, to the best of my knowledge. It is strictly editing for formatting... something that is very rare on forums and exclusively a service to the users, not to our benefit really. We do it for you.

Again... I removed the messages in the "Ugly Kubota" thread as a matter of keeping this one subject in one place. I knew I would be posting this thread, where the topic could be discussed, and didn't see the need for those posts to remain on the forum. If they're that important, we could always restore them here in the feedback forum... but then we would have two threads about the same subject on the same day ---something I don't like to see.

Regarding letting everyone know about the new moderators in advance... YES, I could have posted a notice before any moderation took place, and in the future I most likely will. Everyone who works to build and maintain this website has been working extremely hard, and usually long hours. It was something that I wanted to do, and as I mentioned, had thought about the ways to do it, but it didn't get done... we have done lots of sorting out of things over the past week or two, and I apologize for not posting a note sooner to let everyone know in advance. It has never been my intention to keep this a secret or hide it, but I understand where one could jump to conclusions about it.

 

[EdKing]

I have to agree with BobT on this one. Muhammad is footing the bill here, he can run the site like he pleases. If and when we start paying for the services on this site, then I feel should have a "vote" on how the site is operated. Until such time, it is up to Muhammad, and Muhammad alone, to decide who can do what on the site. There are several other sites out there, although none with as much high quality content, and if I decide I don't like how things are run here, I have the option of frequenting those sites instead of this one. With the number of members, most who seem happy here, Muhammad must be doing a pretty good job, or I am sure people would exercise thier option to not frequent this site.

I say<font color=blue>"Atta boy Muhammad, keep up thye good work, and thanks for providing a place where we can talk tractor with others who share simular interests."</font color=blue>

 

[jhburke]

If anyone has a problem with this forum, they should go to the new Yahoo Groups board. I have one group about 3 times a week it comes up OOPS Unavailable. They are also run so many adds it seems that half time you are getting rid of them to see the messages.

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>Geee... what's all of the hoopla!</font color=blue>

I'm with you, Terry./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Managing this forum has got to be a time consuming job and for Muhammad to get a little more good help (and I think he's picked some pretty darned good help, too), so what? In fact, I'd say we owe a debt of gratitude to these guys for being willing and able to help.

 

[Egon]

When I pay for a service then I may complain.
As it is I don't pay so I should follow the guide line's and enjoy an excellent forum that may require "tweaking" to maintain its excellence.

Egon

 

[Mark_in_NH]

I have No comment "on this particular discussion" either Good or Bad !! And I have Absolutly No Negative comments on the way the website is operated.
I am just Very Grateful that this site exhist's, and that I have been privaleged to become a member of it.
Thank you Muhammed, and moderators, both old and new, for all of your UNSELFISH efforts and your DONATED time towards the initial creation of this site and for it's never ending maintenance.
Thank you to all the members for your advice, guidance, mental and moral support, for your much needed humor, for sharing your inventions and creations with us all.
Geez, I could go on, but I have babbled enough. I am just Danged happy to be here !!! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Trevithick]

<font color=blue> Paul, When was the last time you this much fun for free. This site costs you nothing. Let's start there, then look at the guys chosen, I'd say they are quality people. Have some faith in the fact that maybe everything isn't a plot to ruin something great. The man is just asking for some help. That is just my opinion take it or leave it. </font color=blue>

I have to echo this sentiment. I haven't been around here long, but this is the best-run site I've ever seen in many years of computing. If you want conspiracies, look at NASA, not TBN. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Good job, Muhammad.. and all the other moderators and long-term members.

Sincerely,
Bob

 

[jhburke]

My feelings exactly. I might want to make a suggestion once in awhile. But only the one in charge knows the whole story. When I had men working with me I always told them that I didn't think I knew the best and only way to do something. But my way was working and if they knew a better way to talk to me.

 

[looch]

Hey Bob, relax dude. Maybe it would help if I told you that I'm not screaming the words I write, I'm not slamming the keys on my keyboard.

I just read through the posts on this thread and it seems to me that yours is the only one that comes across as an outright attack against someone.

Let's see:

I'm unreasonable
I invent offenses
I'm being disingenuos
I'm viscious
and I think you're insinuating that I'm intolerant.

I hope I'm not really like that. I don' think I am.

I abide by the rules of society, but that doesn't mean I blindly accept without challenge whatever the decision makers decide to hand down.

It seems that unlike a lot of you (oh boy, I'm gonna get nailed for this), I have taken ownership of this place - it feels like home, and I like to know what's going on.

Sorry, but I don't see this as strictly "Muhammad's place" - I see it as TractorByNet, a division of IMC Digital Universe Inc. and Muhammad as our kind host. I'm pretty sure that running this site isn't easy and I think Muhammad does it very well, but - and maybe I'm wrong here - isn't it his job?

I don't want this "tiny, virtually meaningless issue" to be the first of many more. And after this thread, I think those who make the decisions about this site will take more care in executing their plans, because now they know there are jerks like me who will cause a fuss.

Rest assured that I will be around to read the posts on this thread, but I won't be responding - I feel I've made my point. If you have something that you want to talk to me about, send me a private message.

In fact, maybe it's time I took a hiatus. I'm sure a lot of you wouldn't object.

 

[Inspector507]

Egon, You're right there in my opinion. If I had to pay to belong here, maybe Muhammad should have let us have a say in who the new moderators would be. But we don't. Seems to me on the front page there's a note that says,

"TractorByNet.com is an independently owned and operated website.

© 1997-2002 TractorByNet.com. Reproduction in whole or in part without written permission is strictly prohibited."

Someone has to be footing the bill for this site and that's Muhammad. And probably owns the copyright to this sites name.

 

[blurrybill]

pbenven,

We all seem to agree that this is an outstanding site. I've enjoyed some mild and not-so-mild banter with other TBN members already and I still don't have my tractor! Principles and opinions differ, although, as I've said more than once, there are certain commonalities among TBNers.

I for one value a variety of approaches/opinions and I appreciate you for taking a principled stand whether or not I agree with your position on the moderators.

Bottom line: I think it would be a loss to all if you failed to particpate in the future. The civility on TBN will be maintained and I think you have done that in your remarks on this thread. This appears to be an issue where good points were made from many.

To Muhammad: Thanks for the way you responded on this thread. What a terrific site!!!

Thanks to all who express their heartfelt opinions -- variety is the spice of life, guys. Let's keep up the diversity of thought in both tractors, techniques, and other issues.

Bill

 

[PitbullMidwest]

As bcoleman stated and obviously ignored by the majority of respondants to this issue:

<font color=blue>Pitbull noticed another user's post had been modified by Harv. Muhammad replied that he had added moderators. Then I asked if the list was public who were the moderators, maybe we should be nicer to them now /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. pbenven then replied to my post. <font color=red>All were harmless chit-chat.</font color=red> But when we returned to the post, all of the messages had been deleted.</font color=blue>

The knee-jerk reaction by people who did not see the original post (because it was deleted) was to point fingers and say that PitbullMidwest, pbenven and bcoleman were anti-TBN and worse yet, anti-Muhammad. All of which is untrue and is fantasy from uninformed zealots who feel they have to jump to Muhammad's defense.

For all those who think they have to sing the praises of this site over others or expound on Muhammad's efforts, you're preaching to the choir, no one ever said otherwise

 

[Ibrahim]

PitBull,

I've watched with interest as this developed. I was in the office at the time the original thread developed, and am quite active in the day-to-day maintenence of the site, even if I do not post all too often.

A lot of people seem to get bent out of shape when their messages are removed, and more often than not think we TBN admins (and now moderators) are "picking" on them, or "signaling" them out. Nothing could be further from the truth.

As you stated, the original post asked why Harv's "edit" mark was left there. A bit later Muhammad makes a rather simple remark that there are 7 other moderators. bcoleman asks if it's public or private, no problem.

Truth is, we spotted your original post as something that we should have handled last week, if not sooner! Muhammad and I discussed it and decided that posting a simple News post would be enough. Before then, we had discussed whether or not we wanted to make it part of the FAQ, a simple text link at the top of a forum where a moderator moderates, or a spot on the main site.

But it seems we started running before we put on our shoes. So we spotted that you wanted to know, and Muhammad made the short response while preparing the longer post to the News forum.

As some of you are aware, we were setting up the hat sales, ordering them, putting in the e-commerce engine on our other domain, ordering the SSL Certificate. But we had selected the moderators ealier. Briefed them, and set them loose. We keep a close eye on them, but announcing it was something that got lost in the shuffle.

Back to the removed posts. pbenven posted a "testy" reply about the publicity of moderators, and insinuated that we were hiding the list of moderators and because PitBull noticed Harv edited something, we were "forced" to tell everyone about it.

This was false for several reasons, as Muhammad stated. First, all edits by Moderators are always shown, and there is no way Harv or any of the other moderators could hide that if they wanted to. Second, there is no reason that we would have wanted to keep this hidden. Our reason for not announcing earlier is truly being overworked.

But Muhammad replied to pbenven again, saying we weren't hiding anything, posts were always shown. Then PitBull replies, saying the list should be posted in his humble opinion (I agree, as does Muhammad.)
And Muhammad replies again, explaining all that I just explained about why the list wasn't put out earlier.

This would have been fine if it had stayed, and then pbenven replies again, saying the situation could have been handled with more tact (which is true, but which we can't fix, since the past is behind us) and then asks who owns the site. Or who "controls" the site.

At that point, Muhammad and I decided that this entire thread was going no where, and these snipes at us and TBN's ownership would only lead to more and end up with hurt feelings on both sides. Muhammad's post to the News site was up, and there was nothing being said in that previous thread that was not covered in the News post. Plus it was in the wrong forum, so we decided to remove it.

I should note that the word "testy" is not mine, but pbenven's own choice of word for his response. Arguably, you could have kept the entire exchange and left it open for others to reply to, and read. But it has been our experience that once you start down a path, the entire thread can quickly deteriorate, and that thread was already starting. If you've ever watched Star Wars, you may be familiar with the phrase that the wise Jedi Master Yoda tells his student Luke: "Once you start down the path of the Dark Side, forever will it dominate your destiny."

And so, we simply step in sometimes and remove threads, or parts of threads, to keep everyone on the light-side of the force, so to speak.

In closing, It would be a dream if we never had to do this sort of moderation, but unfortunately it is required to keep the entire forum a useful tool to the compact tractor owner/newbie/dealer/buyer, and a friendly place where everyone can talk about similar interests.

I hope the bitter taste in pbenven's mouth is gone away now, and he'll realize it was just a harmless case of bad timing and perhaps a misunderstanding, and we didn't mean to offend him or even make him feel put out.. And I'm sure you, PitBull, won't hold it against us if we got a little backlogged on work and forgot to do something (even if it was a fairly critical thing to do.)

Thanks for reading (my 21st post),

-Ibrahim

 

[cowboydoc]

I think your responses were in order pbenven. It takes two sides to make this website as great as it is. You are absolutely right that without the great guys on this site it wouldn't matter how great Muhammad was or what he did this site wouldn't fly. Muhammad does an excellent job of providing this site and it just so happens that some excellent gentlemen, yourself included, have seen fit to call this their "second home" and contribute the vast expanse of knowledge that is contained in the analogs here. It's a two way street no doubt. You can't have one without the other. So if you don't like the way things are I think you're perfectly in line to say how you feel about it. Muhammad doesn't have to agree and yes he has the final word on things but it doesn't hurt to have input from the guys that helped make this site great.

 

[Muhammad]

Now that everyone has had a chance to contribute their comments, I have locked the thread from further posting.