Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments

   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #31  
Thanks for the pictures. I'll go through your long messages today and see if I can provide any insight from our own mountain property.

But one thing stands out. I don't think you are giving enough consideration to what the various classes of machinery are capable of doing. A compact or utility size tractor is made for maintaining the property once the construction is done. Think "maintaining" - as well as doing about a thousand handy chores. You will use it everyday. And one with a backhoe+thumb is just right for moving fallen timber and holding it up for chainsawing.
Your utility tractor is capable of moving snow, hauling anything, moving rocks one at a time, or even enough dirt for way too large of a plot, or making picnic area or a turn-around area alongside the road... all kinds of work. You definitely want and need one. It's half the fun of owning land.

But for initially shaping the ground into a roadway that the utillity tractor can maintain is a job for an artist with a bulldozer. While he is there he can prepare a building site or several. He can deal with slopes that woud roll a tractor The tractor just cannot do that stuff. It isn't as stable and it doesn't have a blade that angles, tilts, and pushes - and if it did, it has neither the power or traction to push it. Even our 100 hp commercial JD310 cannot move earth like a little 35 hp D2 bulldozer. A skilled operator in a few days will literally save you years. Many years.

Now back to tractors....
rScotty
I would recommend a heavy duty grapple to move timber and hold for cutting.
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #32  
very grateful for all of the help here. feel like I'm getting a better understanding of some things, even if my initial assumptions on some things may have been wrong and I need to make some adjustements in plans...

LAND:
On Western Mountain land and trees. Yes, our land at 7000 feet in Colorado is similar, - although we do have fir and pine to a couple of feet in diameter. Stumps from trees that size we just live with and drive around. Look at our equipment in the sidebar. We can remove a stump from a 24" pine but it takes hours and is VERY HARD on equipment.

What we have in the mountainous west is very different from the East or South. I grew up in Southern muddy hardwood mountains and can spell "chiggers" and 'opossom and gar . THat is different land. Down there they run loaded Ag R1 tires because they need to. On our dry sandy mountains we run unloaded wide Universal R4s with a back up set of chains.

COMPACTS & UTILITY TRACTORS:
Most any brand will do what you want. It's a maintenance machine that can do some real work. It just doesn't do it real fast. And you won't hurt it if you don't ask it to pick up and move too great of a load, don't run it into things, use 4wd as an assist when needed except ALWAYS IN 4WD GOING DOWNHILL! and don't engage the differential lock while the wheels are spinning.

Pay attention to those rules above - they are golden. Otherwise you can strain any tractor without doing any real damage to it. It's a tractor; it's made to work hard. When it can't lift or shift something it just won't lift or shift it. No damage happens. The wheels will spin and the hydraulics will squall and that doesn't hurt a thing if you listen, back off, and don't force it to do what it can't. Just don't beat on it and it will do fine.

A 25 hp will do some work, although from your pictures I'd say stay in the 40 to 60 hp range. Larger is OK, but over 60 hp you begin to lose handy maneuverability. HP is deceptive, what we mean when we say HP is weight and stability and lifting abiility. Those are what are really critical.

Tractors can and do turn over and especially when carrying a load. And they don't have front brakes... if you have a big load in the bucket your back wheels don't have enough traction to stop you. Think about that for a moment. The answer is to use 4wd ALWAYS when going downhill. 4wd connects the front tires to the rear brakes!! Most of the other time you won't need 4wd and the tractor is happier in 2wd.

NEW VS USED Tractors: I can't answer that for you. I'm mechanical, eventually evey rural person becomes at least a little bit that way. There are good used machines out there, but most of the are offered first to friends. The really good ones are rarely on the general market. If you have a trusted dealer who offers you a used machine then you should consider it. Or from a friend. Otherwise buy new this time - but keep your eyes open.

NEW VS USED Implements: This is where you really save money. Used implements are often as good as new ones and are a great way to learn about mechanical things without risking the tractor. Yes, old implements sometimes need welding. Lots of people do welding. It's a good way to meet neighbors. Eventually you may decide to have a $200 welder and do the simple stuff yourself. It's easy.

TRAILERS: I don't haul anymore so cannot help with that. But put some thought into ramps vs building a dirt ramp somewhere on your land. Probably both.

LATER: Good luck, Onto the other long message later.
What beautiful land you have there.
With all the aspen, do you have a wet spot for a little pond?
We built a little shallow pond by the creek and are amazed at the wildlife it brings. Even ducks find it. Mama bear brings her cubs to play in the water some afternoons.
rScotty
 
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   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #33  
I would recommend a heavy duty grapple to move timber and hold for cutting.

We use the backhoe and thumb for doing exactly that - for holding logs up for cutting. But whether it is grapple or thumb I agree from his photos that he needs one of the other and could probably use both. If my land looked like his I would sure want both a grapple on the FEL and a thumb on the hoe.

rScotty
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #34  
We use the backhoe and thumb for doing exactly that - for holding logs up for cutting. But whether it is grapple or thumb I agree from his photos that he needs one of the other and could probably use both. If my land looked like his I would sure want both a grapple on the FEL and a thumb on the hoe.

rScotty
The grapple will be more maneuverable without having get out of the operators seat, making moving or cutting lots of down trees quicker. Most of my property is woods.
Since my property is already developed I have little use for a backhoe. I think a backhoe would be good for the OP's situation.
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #35  
When I look at those pictures, I think "bulldozer" for 98% of that. You want a dozer to widen and improve those roads. A dozer also can push all those trees into a pile for burning. All of that is bulldozer work.

THEN after the roads look like you want them to look, a land plane (grading scraper) is the tool for the job. I have a box blade and a land plane. I have gotten to where I never even attach the box blade anymore. The land plane is SOOOOO much better for maintaining roads and grading earthen areas.

I also had a grapple and I have pallet forks. I ended up selling my grapple because the forks do the same work most of the time for a fraction of the cost.
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #36  
When I look at those pictures, I think "bulldozer" for 98% of that. You want a dozer to widen and improve those roads. A dozer also can push all those trees into a pile for burning. All of that is bulldozer work.

THEN after the roads look like you want them to look, a land plane (grading scraper) is the tool for the job. I have a box blade and a land plane. I have gotten to where I never even attach the box blade anymore. The land plane is SOOOOO much better for maintaining roads and grading earthen areas.

I also had a grapple and I have pallet forks. I ended up selling my grapple because the forks do the same work most of the time for a fraction of the cost.

Yes, bulldozer. But more for the dirt than the aspens. Aspen have shallow roots so are easy to move.

We don't burn out west. That's another difference between the Eastern forest and here. The idea of burning - even a campfire - makes westerners real nervous. Burning a pile would be a great way to get real unpopular really quick. Back East or South burning is the best way I know of to reduce a pile. Not here.

Those little stunted 6" aspen make great firewood. Just the right size. It's a soft wood, but as close to a good stovewood as we have here. And at least it isn't resinous. We bury or chip the slash. Or both. Some aspen forests are said to be all one tree and runners.

If I ever get a grapple, I'll put it on it's own bucket - probably the rock bucket. That way it won't interfere with all the things that a regular bare bucket is so useful for doing. SSQA makes swapping buckets easy.
BTW, if getting a rock bucket get the kind with long round tines, Adco ad Houle are examples. Much better than the ones with the rectangular tines.

BACKHOE FEATURES:
Musing now.... I don't get off the tractor to use the backhoe. On the Kubota TLB, the operator seat swivels around. I don't even have to move. Just pull a lever. If I had to get on and off the tractor all the time when using the backhoe I wouldn't find it nearly so handy - and would have bought a grapple years ago.

Also the Kubota TLB has a special lever so that the operator can drive the tractor forward or reverse when sitting in the backhoe position. That feature alone cuts trenching and repositioning time by half.
Even our big JD commercial hoe doesn't do that.

rScotty
 
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   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #37  
Tractors aren’t made for earth moving. You’d be a lot better off with a tracked skid steer. A tracked skid steer is a long way from a dozer but it’s a lot more versatile. A tracked skid steer is easily 5x more productive moving dirt than a compact skid steer. If you installed a tilt plate on the skid loader it would be pretty capable at building roads. A dozer even a little one would be way more productive though. Depending on how much you value your time you still might be ahead to hire a dozer.
 
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   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #38  
Yes, bulldozer. But more for the dirt than the aspens. Aspen have shallow roots so are easy to move.

We don't burn out west. That's another difference between the Eastern forest and here. The idea of burning - even a campfire - makes westerners real nervous. Burning a pile would be a great way to get real unpopular really quick. Back East or South burning is the best way I know of to reduce a pile. Not here.

Those little stunted 6" aspen make great firewood. Just the right size. It's a soft wood, but as close to a good stovewood as we have here. And at least it isn't resinous. We bury or chip the slash. Or both. Some aspen forests are said to be all one tree and runners.

If I ever get a grapple, I'll put it on it's own bucket - probably the rock bucket. That way it won't interfere with all the things that a regular bare bucket is so useful for doing. SSQA makes swapping buckets easy.
BTW, if getting a rock bucket get the kind with long round tines, Adco ad Houle are examples. Much better than the ones with the rectangular tines.

BACKHOE FEATURES:
Musing now.... I don't get off the tractor to use the backhoe. On the Kubota TLB, the operator seat swivels around. I don't even have to move. Just pull a lever. If I had to get on and off the tractor all the time when using the backhoe I wouldn't find it nearly so handy - and would have bought a grapple years ago.

Also the Kubota TLB has a special lever so that the operator can drive the tractor forward or reverse when sitting in the backhoe position. That feature alone cuts trenching and repositioning time by half.
Even our big JD commercial hoe doesn't do that.

rScotty

I have a dedicated grapple that I bought years ago and I got a demolition bucket included in a machine purchase. I’d been wanting one anyway because the regular grapple is lacking for loading demolition debris. A lot of trash fall through the regular grapple. I put the demolition bucket on to clean up a fallen tree. I was immediately disappointed with its brush handling ability. The visibility is extremely poor with the solid bottom bucket where you can see through the grapple. The straight edge bucket doesn’t help either. A tooth bucket would be a lot better for raking up brush. The grapple is much better than the backhoe thumb for transporting brush. It takes a lot bigger bite and you can’t drive with a very heavy load on the backhoe because the front wheels come up. About the backhoe creep lever it’s nice on tractor backhoes but I wouldn’t consider it worthwhile on the full size backhoe. It’s easy enough and almost better to just disengage the brake on the full size hoe and push it forward. The lack of reverse on the m59 creep lever was annoying. It’s also easy enough to push the full size backhoe into gear and drive it sitting backwards. With the much larger operating platform spinning the seat on the Deere only takes 2 seconds anyway. With the M59 it’s more of a gymnast move.
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   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #39  
The lack of reverse on the m59 creep lever was annoying. SNIP.. With the M59 it’s more of a gymnast move.

Your M59 doesn't have reverse on the creep lever? Might want to check again. Mine does. Just move the creep lever in the other direction for reverse.

I must be a gymnast then. I'd better make sure to tell everyone. They think I'm a klutz.

rScotty
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #40  
Your M59 doesn't have reverse on the creep lever? Might want to check again. Mine does. Just move the creep lever in the other direction for reverse.

I must be a gymnast then. I'd better make sure to tell everyone. They think I'm a klutz.

rScotty

Now that I think about it maybe the M59 did have reverse on the creep. I’ve not had that machine for a couple years. The tractor backhoe I had before that had cruise control that could be used in the same fashion as the M59 creep but it didn’t have reverse. I’m fairly average build 6’ 180 pounds and I found the m59 swivel station tight to use where I could throw my chainsaw on the 310 floor and still spin around with ease.
 
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