NH and JD file suit

[PitbullMidwest]

If you don't visit the CTOA message board you might not have seen this.

New Holland is suing Futian and JD is suing Jinma over Trade Dress (same charge as Kubota against Kioti). There is alot of info if you take the time to follow the links provided by Mike Stewart.

Here's a link to the discussion: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://worldcrossing.com/WebX?128@60.7W4RedSCWOE.1039090@.1ddbc391>CTOA</A>

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I guess that is one way to compete. Cut down the competition in the courts if you can't do it in the free market.

 

[JohnS]

The JD suit might have impacts to implement manufactures. I believe I saw some pictures of Green First Choice implements on this site. Since the JD suit also mentions the pending suit on MTD for their Yardman series of tractors (yellow hood, green body), it will probably set a precidence.

 

[Woodbeef]

I can see NH point about the Futain tractors. They do look like a joint-venture between the two companies made in China.

As for JD well as the sun is starting to quickly set on the solid,stable,still......bs mantra and Deere is grasping at straws to try and plug the whole in the only market that they can still sell anything in volume in! These color infringements are really good comedy if you sit back and look at them for what they are worth,which is hilarity in the best sense of the word. Some over priced law firms will make millions off of this farce of the US justice system!!

 

[PitbullMidwest]

Woodbeef,

On the John Deere Trade Dress issue, why didn't they sue Oliver for having green tractors? Oliver completed head to head with Deere for years but the marketplace finally decided. It seems that the "victim society" mentality has finally reached corporate America.

I do agree with you that the Futian looks like a joint-venture and I think NH has a good case.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I wonder why Mercedes does not sue the american and other car makers for copying their look. Actually many of the newer auto's look alike. I do not consider this a valid issue. Tv's, VCR's refridgerators, cooking stoves, and a lot of stuff looks alike.

I still believe it is just another way to "compete", if their product does not stand out enough on it's own merits to successfully compete in the market place.

 

[MikeStuart]

New Holland's case depends on whether or not a resonable person would confuse the Futian tractor with a New Holland. They state that a less-than-honest dealer may imply that the Futian is identical to a NH in some way because 7 out of 10 randomly selected people would think the Futian is a NH unless they saw them side-by-side.

Trademarks don't have to be registered in order to be enforced so NH is hoping that will be enough to stomp out Futian imports.

JD's complaint is interesting in that they name some Chinese tractor distributor/dealers and some non-Chinese tractor companies in North America and Europe.

The Chinese tractor factories named and the Chinese tractor dealers that are named sell or have photos of green and yellow tractors that a non-tractor person would assume could be a John Deere. One of the companies named had a rep that claimed their Chinese tractor is a "Chinese John Deere with a Chinese Yanmar engine". For this part, JD is doing the same thing as NH in trying to protect their trade dress.

The other part of JD's complaint (the non-Chinese) has to do with companies that sell and export/import JD products. This is where a precedent has been set previously in the area of "grey-market" Kubotas.

As far as NH's and JD's complaints go, these are just complaints at this point. An investigation will follow. Perhaps during the investigations and certainly after the investigations, lawsuits are going to start popping up. That's when it will get interesting.

 

[markie61]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I wonder why Mercedes does not sue the american and other car makers for copying their look.

<hr></blockquote>



Actually, they DO defend their look.

For instance, Jeep is now owned by Daimler/Chrysler (ie, Mercedes-Benz). Through the years, Jeep and its subsequent owners have been VERY aggressive about defending the vertical barred grill as a trademark on SUV's. Their newest target is the H2 by Hummer.

As a casual consumer, I would have assumed they were made by Jeep since the military Humvee is the successor to the miliary GP vehicle. Even as a quasi-educated consumer, I know military Humvees are (or were) made my a company called AM General and might extrapolate (falsely) that it was part of now-defunct AMC, which owned Jeep before Daimler/Chrysler. I'm a car nut, so I know that the H2 is mostly GM pickup under its skin - no relation to a Jeep.

Unless I had found all these wonderful TBN people to educate myself, I might have bought the (FALSE) idea that a green tractor was always a Deere or Kioti made tractors for Kubota or a Ford is now a Long or an IH is now a Mahindra.... Defending trademarks and patents is I believe important enough to warrant a complaint. There is a whole legal subsystem is there to ensure a fair hearing to both sides.

Whoa - !! I gotta get off this soapbox - I'm getting dizzy up here/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif....

Mark

 

[Woodbeef]

Hey Pitbull,

The Oliver colors were different enough than the Deere colors,so I guess they were not worried about it back then. Also at that time Deere was on its way to being #1 in North America,today they are slipping on that position. They must do all they can to try and hang on to every market that they can. With the under 45hp being the only market this side of the pond that looks promising,I think their actions become very clear.

 

[Green_in_MI]

What a bunch of bs. All companies must aggressively protect its trademarks or risk losing important and potentially costly cases.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hey Woodbeef, you sure can spot the replies from those involved in selling tractors

 

[JohnS]

If they invented green paint, that would be different. Going after MTD Yardman (yellow body/green frame) and green weedeaters, is way overboard. If the Jinma dealers switch to green body/white wheels, are they in the clear? or subject to just further harrasment, down the road? Just think of the impacts if the first white appliances were trademarked, PCs, etc. We would be stuck with some very ugly choices of color.

I wonder who owns the rights to red body/white wheels? Farmall/IH? You don't see anyone copying the old grey Ford Ns. Bet it has nothing to do with trademarks, just ugly or an aquired taste /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

 

[Woodbeef]

HHmmmm........protecting trademarks eh? Is that what they are calling colors these days? Did Deere not change their shade of green awhile ago? I could see if Jinma had stolen the galloping goat logo,or the style of the name or something to that effect! Now tell me if Deere was not going downhill in sales of just about everything they sell,would they be after Jinma? Maybe they are also doing this to help out their Chinese partner's sales,who knows for sure?

Hey slowrev,

Ya it does sometimes becoming exceedingly easy to spot,does it not? What really makes it easy is the total lack of info left on the reg page!

 

[MikeStuart]

Hmmm, if that shot was directed at me, it hit. I didn't realize my reg page was blank. I figured using my real name would be enough. Nevertheless the reg page is filled out now.

I don't sell Futians or JinMa's. I did sell JM's and a few other Chinese brands at one time but dropped all but one(TY).

I'm not named in the suit, but I do keep up with what's going on. If my posts are not welcome here, please tell me and I'll go away!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Don't get steamed Mike, Nothing personal intended. It was just my opinions /observations on the different styles/opinions of the replies on this subject. You were not the only one that I thought has a "dealer viewpoint", actually you were not the one that triggered my response. Don't go away, we need varying opinions to keep us thinking.

Ben

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Yeah Woodbeef, Although a few are registered with their company name and are quite upfront about it. No problem from me on this , just an observation. I expect that we have this site to share information and opinions because someone is selling tractors thru it. I am just grateful to have the site to learn and share, although I am still learning more than I am sharing

 

[MikeStuart]

Re: slowrev

No steam yet.

My posts do get lengthy sometimes. Most of the population form their opinions based on generalized hearsay so I try to explain things in an educational(lengthy) manner.

As far as these complaints, I can't say that I'm happy about them, but there might be someone listed there who is getting some payback.

 

[JohnS]

Re: slowrev

Mike, your lengthy explainations are alway fine with me. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Your posts, on whatever tractor board I've seen them on, have always been insightful and never hint of salesmanship. Not many dealers can claim that.

 

[dancce]

Re: slowrev

I think "salesmanship" and the word "salesman" have a bad connotation in most peoples mind----and probably deservedly so.
Have you noticed that the really good sales person does not come across like the stereo-typed "salesman"?

Someone like our friend Woodbeef, would proabably make a great salesman----unless he looks like those furry beasts he raises!!! (Sorry WB, I couldn't resist

Dancce

 

[JohnS]

Re: slowrev

I am not familiar with woodbeef, and have not researched his prior postings. I am vouching for Mike, who on numerous occasions, has turned me toward alternate, lower cost sorces, instead of selling it himself. If you were a frequent visitor to the CTOA board, you would know what I mean. He has provided a wealth of information on Chinese tractors, to whoever needed it. In fact, such open knowledge might have even hurt him, by others learning and jumping into the business, and competing against his local market.