No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor?

   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #41  
sandman2234 said:
As far as RayH is concerned, and his thinking that he is ok to judge other drivers since he has a lot of experience, I can relate. Doesn't make him right, (or wrong for that matter), but I can relate to him since I also drive for a living.
David from jax

Point taken. Being a professional driver, You know as well as I do that we constantly judge other drivers, we judge what they do and how they do it. Its part of the job and its how you avoid accidents. I dont think thats a bad thing.
You are right, judging over the internet is stupid.
In my defense, I wasnt the first one to judge the opinions of others based on claims of "experience". otherwise, I would never have thought to go there.
 
   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #42  
755inNY said:
Almost level??? Boy am I glad your are not building a house for me (not that you build houses but you get the point). The clearance from the rear tire to the body is several inches less than the clearance at the front tire. There is a very visible difference in clearance from the rocker panel to the pavement at the front versus the rear.

The weight in the bed and the distribution of that weight makes the load unsafe.

All I can say in my defense is look at the difference in the space between the front tire and wheel well in picture 1 and again in pic 4. look at the tire deflection in pic 1 and in pic 4. They are the same. The front end is not floating. Its true the rear is sagged down and may even be on the bumpstops, I cant say that for sure one way or the other. But I can say that judging from the pics, the front is not light.
Do I think this is a good idea, NO.
Do I think it can be done safely, Certainly.
 
   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #43  
RayH said:
Im not sure where Im going either, you took us down this path. That 25% figure you put out there is a little suspect. The numbers Ive seen suggest that 15% of fatal accidents are attributed to equipment and 85% are human factors. Those numbers dont include non fatal accidents though. None the less, I think its agreed that a great majority of accidents are not caused by equipment. That was my point.
Your point about the overloaded truck with the driver that doesnt know his stopping distance. Do you attribute that to unsafe driver or unsafe equipment? I say thats just another case of unsafe driver. That same overloaded truck could've been driven by another driver just as safely as any vehicle. I guess I dont see unsafe vehicles or unsafe equipment, I see unsafe people in the drivers seat. That truck or equipment is only doing what the driver tells it to do. Any accident cause short of a tire blowout, steering or brake system failure in my book is attributable to human error.

As a side note, dont be so sure you weren't a contributing factor in your accidents. You weren't just dropped in an unsafe situation, you made the decisions that put you there. I'll bet if you honestly look back to the moments before the accidents, you will see some sign of things to come that you didnt notice at the time or didnt pay attention to. Many (almost constantly now that everyone has a cell phone attached to their ear) times a day I get a mental "red flag" and I remove myself from situations that make me uncomfortable. I have no way of telling if I have avoided an accident or not but thats ok with me.

You average 50000 miles per year for 41 years??? Come on, thats about 200 miles a day, five day a week, for 52 weeks a year for 41 years. Thats about 2050000 miles. You must have one heck of a good job to commute 200 miles a day for 41 years.

So when an "unsafe driver" takes an usafe load on the road, it's no longer an unsafe load? You may have BOTH, but the load is STILL unsafe.


Notice the NTSB numbers I mentioned were totals of NON ALCOHOL RELATED fatal accidents. Not removing that from statistics will automatically skew numbers towards "operator error". There is no "safe driver" or "safe load" with a drunk at the wheel.

Your off the cuff analysis of what possibly caused the accidents I was in is pure conjecture and completely WRONG. How's that? 2 were when I was stopped to a complete standstill because of stopped traffic in front of me. (due to road construction). I was rear ended. Both were inattentive drivers. 3rd wreck was a truck running a traffic light. He attemped to stop, but the brakes didn't get the job done. He was sited for being 6500lbs over legal weight. There was nothing to be done to avoid what happened, short of staying home that day. I've avoided a number of wrecks over the years. I try not to put myself in a position where someone elses blunder can take me out. The odds just caught up with me.

Your math needs to account for a few dozen things you left out. One, not all my driving has been exclusively "back and forth to work". Never said it was. Living in the country, a simple run to the store for milk was a 15 mile round trip. I was "on the road" with my job for years, I farmed some and logged thousands of miles related to that. Back when I was younger, I raced dirt bikes. It was normal to travel 1000 or more miles round trip sometimes 35 or 40 weekends a year for 15 years. My 50,000 a year estimate was quite conservitive.

I also have to comment on your claims of added credability for being a "professional driver". Exactly how many miles/years does it take of being a semi operator to consider yourself qualified as an expert on light truck engineering? You may be the best that ever was at driving a semi. That does absolutely nothing to make you any more qualified than the next guy.
 
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   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #44  
Well I'd guess that many of us have hauled loads close to the top of our ratings if not pushing it a little. So what can you do to make it as safe as possible?

On my list would be
Tie it down good.(I'm not sure the tie down points in the corners of my truck would be up to that tractor).
Air up the tires.
Stay off the highway and SLOW DOWN.
What else?

Chris
 
   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #45  
I have a 1 ton dually, but I can't seem to get a JD 6715 in the bed of the truck. Any suggestions?
 
   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #46  
Farmwithjunk said:
. Exactly how many miles/years does it take to consider yourself qualified as an expert on light truck engineering?

Ohhh! Pick me! I know the answer. 41.
 
   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #47  
On the topic of safety... When I was a young man, I thought I was the 2nd coming of Mario Andretti. I drove at or above the speed limit whenever weather conditions allowed, and prided myself on how well I could handle my car. I kept it well maintained, and absolutely thought I was a safe driver.

I went on to become a helicopter pilot in the US Army. I graduated at the top of my flight-school class, and simply by observing others flying, I realized that I was a much better pilot than others in my circle of contacts. While still a fairly junior officer, I was selected by my commanding officer to become a flight instructor, and was sent to the instructor pilot course, where I again graduated at the top of my class.

Can you say "Big Head?" Of course, I "knew" I was a better pilot than the other guys in my unit. Just as I "knew" I was a better driver than 95% of the other drivers on the road. Which in my mind, justified the fact that I broke the speed limit, and thoroughly enjoyed driving in the mountains going around curves "much" faster than the "posted" safe speeds. It was "safe" because I had the superior reflexes, skills, and equipment to make it safe.

One day, returning from a trip to the Tennessee mountains, I stopped for gas, and I overheard a conversation between two "old geezers"... They were complaining about how every darn driver on the road thought he was the best driver on the road... I was thinking to myself - "You know, that's right. Most of those drivers out there are really lousy drivers. If I wasn't such a good driver, I'd have probably had lots of accidents by now."

It suddenly struck me: "Hey, wait a minute! I'M ONE OF THOSE DRIVERS WHO THINKS HE'S THE BEST DRIVER ON THE ROAD! What if I'm not? How would I know? What if I'm really right in the middle of the "average" range?" This was a life-changing epiphany for me. I left that gas station a changed man - literally.

I began to seriously assess not only my own skills, but the skills of those around me, and (follow me closely on this one) the impact of my driving on those who might not be as skilled. In other words, I started to think about how my actions and behaviors might impact other drivers, as well as how their actions and behaviors might impact me. I realized that my car might be well maintained and have the cornering capacity to make the curve at 10-15 mph above the posted speed, but the guy following me (who might be subconsciously matching my speed while zoning out listening to the radio) might have low tire pressure, or a bad shock absorber, and not be able to make the curve. Or, worse yet, he might be the guy coming the other way around the curve, drifting over a bit into my lane, forcing me to suddenly tighten the radius of my turn, and causing me to lose control... All sorts of possibilities opened themselves up to me as I began to consider the possibility that I might not be as good as I thought I was...

When I got back to my aviation unit, I assembled the 10 pilots I was responsible for training. I handed each of them a piece of paper with a numbered list from 1-10 down the left side. I asked each of them to "rank" all of the pilots in the group, from "best=1" to "worst=10". I promised them that no one besides themselves would see the list, and encouraged them to be as honest as they possibly could be.

When they were done, I announced that I had psychic abilities, and that I was 100% certain that each and every one of them had listed themselves in one of the top 2 positions. Every guy in the room turned a bit red in the face. I then asked them to consider something with me: If every one of them thought they were one of the top 2 pilots in the unit, could they all be right? Didn't it stand to reason that someone in the room was the worst pilot in the room? And someone was the 2nd worst, and so on? And that at least 80% of the people in the room had overrated their own abilities?

The room was dead silent, but I could see that I had gotten them to think about it, maybe for the first time ever... I then suggested that if they would keep this in mind when they were flying, they might be less likely to take an unnecessary risk, or to push the envelope to that last inch, or to accept a high-risk mission when they were aready overly tired, or ???

I shared with them that my greatest fear as an instructor pilot was being over-confident, and allowing the student pilot to get "us" into a situation where I could no longer take over the controls and recover without exceeding the limits of the aircraft or the pilot (me) in the process. And I explained that I tried to reduce that risk as much as possible by approaching those limits very slowly, and forcing the student pilot to do the same. There were things I could do in the helicoper when I was flying for myself that I could not allow the student pilot to do, because there was insufficient margin for error (his or mine) and subsequent recovery. I asked them to keep this thought in the back of their mind as they were flying. If they wouldn't want a pilot who was in the "bottom half" of the group to do it, maybe they should seriously reconsider doing it themselves? Because the odds were at least 50/50 that they themselves were, in fact, in the "bottom half" of the group in terms of piloting skills. Absolutely stunned silence from the group. I didn't say another word to them, just dismissed them for the day.

I was fortunate enough to stay in that unit for another 18 months. At some point during that time, each and every one of those guys thanked me for that discussion, and for helping them to realize that it was one thing to be confident, but quite another to be cocky. I told them "I owe it all to 2 wise gentlemen from Tennessee who educated me one summer..." (Notice how they got promoted from "geezer" to "wise gentlemen" over the course of my "education" period?)

What does any of this have to do with the original posting? Well, in my younger days, I would have probably helped load that truck, or even driven that truck - even on the highway. And I would have said "It's technically within the max load limits of the truck, and my superior reflexes and driving skills will ensure that I'll be safe doing so." And I might have been right about both things.

Nowadays, though, I would consider all the variables that go into making something "safe" to do, and I probably would neither drive the truck with that load, nor would I knowingly allow someone else to leave my place of business loaded like that. I would realize that it wasn't necessarily "unsafe" just to drive it, but that it would leave the driver with no "cushion" or "margin for error" if anything the least bit out of the ordinary happenned on his way home.

Today, I would do whatever it took to prevent someone from pushing the envelope that hard. I would encourage them to rent a trailer. If they refused, I would instead load it on my trailer, and pull it behind my truck to their place.

A human life (even that of a complete stranger) is worth more than my time and inconvenience. If that person were my customer, so much more so.
 
   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #48  
Dargo said:
I have a 1 ton dually, but I can't seem to get a JD 6715 in the bed of the truck. Any suggestions?

Stack some pallets up in the bed and then put some sheets of plywood across the top.

Get some good bungies!
 
   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #49  
Jack it up at the corners like a camper and back under it, then lower it onto 2 by 4's layed on your bed rails. If it has the loader, let it rest on some sand bags on your hood.:p You might want to take off the 2000 pound box blade, for better balance or if you have to go on the interstate.
 
   / No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor? #50  
JimParker said:
snip...

A human life (even that of a complete stranger) is worth more than my time and inconvenience. If that person were my customer, so much more so.


Great post, and a great outlook!

/Todd
 

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