No Need to Trailer when hauling tractor?

[RayH]

Any camper that pins a truck to the ground like that would be unsafe, and downright foolish to take to the hiways. A tractor PLUS the weight of a trailer would have the added benifit of (a) having the front wheels of the truck in a position to stop, and (b) trailer brakes . I don't care if it's 1900 lbs of duck feathers in the bed, that's not a safe load. But, tow truck operators and undertakers have to eat too, so haul on bro.

I agree that its a heavy load for that truck, I just dont see it being a danger. Look at the pics. The truck is sitting almost level. A good deal of the weight is on the front as well as the rear axle. I could see your point if the front of the truck were floating but to me, it looks like the load is well distributed. With the loader over the cab and the engine infront of the rear axle, I'd say at least 2/3 of the tractor weight is in front of the rear axle.

Anyway, theres my opinion based on the very limited information those pictures present.

 

[john_bud]

Yeah, it should be an ok load to haul. AFter all, he used the over load detectors when putting the tractor in the bed. (Tail gate cables! I'm surprised they didn't snap.)

I think the rear axle capacity is about 4200-4500#. The rear of the truck empty is probably in the 1500-1800# range. (Whole truck is 4500#). If the whole weight of the tractor was on the rear axle, it would still be under 4000#.

Oh, for a trailer with 3500 or less pounds, trailer brakes are NOT required in many states. Heck, here in WI for 3500 or less, you don't even have to register the trailer! The truck brakes are designed to handle that.

jb

 

[MrJimi]

Just wondering? did he squash his tailgate on the last picture?
Jim

 

[Birdman253]

Yeah, it should be an ok load to haul. AFter all, he used the over load detectors when putting the tractor in the bed. (Tail gate cables! I'm surprised they didn't snap.)

jb

Nobody seems to have noticed that the pallets are stacked under the tailgate. If the cables snapped, the tailgate would simply drop to the pallets, and be supported there. Would probably make for a little bit of excitement, but the tractor was not going to fall to the ground.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I agree that its a heavy load for that truck, I just dont see it being a danger. Look at the pics. The truck is sitting almost level. A good deal of the weight is on the front as well as the rear axle. I could see your point if the front of the truck were floating but to me, it looks like the load is well distributed. With the loader over the cab and the engine infront of the rear axle, I'd say at least 2/3 of the tractor weight is in front of the rear axle.

Anyway, theres my opinion based on the very limited information those pictures present.

All of my life, I've lived out in the country. Where we live now is the SHORTEST drive to work I've had in 0ver 35 years. (37 mi ea way) Most of the milage is on interstate highways or rural highways with long straight streches. My point is, I've seen a lot of miles of driving at relatively high road speeds. I've seen a few wrecks happen. I've been in 3 interstate wrecks. (lucky me, huh?) Things happen suddenly. No time to react under the best of conditions. (Then when you DO avoid what happens in front of you, someone plows you from behind. Don't ask me how I know that) The wildest wreck I ever saw was a 1/2 ton pick-up with about 25 sheets of 3/4 plywood in the back. It wasn't even a big stack. Driver had to swerve just a bit to avoid part of a chair that was in the road. He moved a couple feet to his left then started to correct back and there she went. Truck was well under weight limit. It's just that a common, ordinary on-road manuever ended up making that truck barrel roll 4 times. As he started turning back, the weight transferred. At that point he probably had 2/3rds the cargo weight on one corner of the truck. (L rear) Tire wasn't heavy enough to maintain control when it was suddenly weighted like that. It just doesn't make good sense to me to push things right to the absolute physical limits. In order to drive on a PUBLIC road, it makes sense to me to have a nice margin for error. Be that your own or another driver. (who might not know that you need extra stopping distance for example)

A BIG part of this discussion revolves around everyones definition of "SAFE". And some people see that truck as safe at 65. Some of us see it (barely) safe at 25 mph.

I just barely made it through the last wreck I was in. An overloaded truck couldn't stop at a red light. I got nailed in the drivers door. I spent 2 hours being extracated. 6 weeks in the hospital. I'm a little sensitive to the idea of loading trucks just to see if it will haul every ounce it's "rated" at.

 

[drm]

I agree that its a heavy load for that truck, I just dont see it being a danger. Look at the pics. The truck is sitting almost level. A good deal of the weight is on the front as well as the rear axle. I could see your point if the front of the truck were floating but to me, it looks like the load is well distributed. With the loader over the cab and the engine infront of the rear axle, I'd say at least 2/3 of the tractor weight is in front of the rear axle.

Anyway, theres my opinion based on the very limited information those pictures present.

I vehemently side with Farmwithjunk on this. Until recently I also traveled a good distance to work on a daily basis. Currently I put 20,000 mi/year on country and highway roads. So I have seen my fair share of unsafe, overloaded vehicles and bad drivers. I have been hit from behind several times when the driver behind me was not able to safely operate a non loaded vehicle for the conditions. I have had several near misses in highway accidents (one crossed over a 2 lane 55 mph road and struck the vehicle behind me and 2 others crossed over divided highways). I have had to quickly avoid many more. No accident is planned but why make your vehicle less likely to respond to the unexpected by overloading it?

Second and more importantly GVWR and cargo ratings are MAXIMUMS. The GVWR for a 2006 Chevy is 6,400 pounds. Subtract vehicle weight, options, driver, fuel, etc. and the cargo capacity drops to 1,600 pounds +/-. My reading of the photos indicates that the rear axles are on their bumpers or close to it.

I am a structural engineer and investigate building failures and determine the cause. I have heard many times from contractors that they do it that way all of the time. That does not mean that they have been doing it right it just means that they have been lucky.

If everything is right with the planets and nothing out of the ordinary happens the driver in the picture may get to his destination without mishap BUT it is not worth risking the lives of others because he is only a little overloaded, not going far…

 

[tractornate]

no tailgate damage, and no tiedowns, this was the second time that it was hauled this way and he had to go @30 miles no Hwy, yep the truck handled it fair!
But if one of our drivers did this i would be looking for a new driver! it can be done it was done dosent mean that i would do it! or let someone do it with one of our tractors or trucks.
I am sure that everone that has ever hauled much at some point has hauled to much for there truck!
and yes the pallets were put under the tailgate for that reason.

keep in mind that these were posted to put a smile on your face.

 

[normde2001]

Compact Yanmars were designed to be hauled in the back of pickup trucks, according to a sales brochure that I saw, the reason for the narrow rear wheels.

 

[RayH]

All of my life, I've lived out in the country. Where we live now is the SHORTEST drive to work I've had in 0ver 35 years. (37 mi ea way) Most of the milage is on interstate highways or rural highways with long straight streches. My point is, I've seen a lot of miles of driving at relatively high road speeds. I've seen a few wrecks happen. I've been in 3 interstate wrecks. (lucky me, huh?) Things happen suddenly. No time to react under the best of conditions. (Then when you DO avoid what happens in front of you, someone plows you from behind. Don't ask me how I know that) The wildest wreck I ever saw was a 1/2 ton pick-up with about 25 sheets of 3/4 plywood in the back. It wasn't even a big stack. Driver had to swerve just a bit to avoid part of a chair that was in the road. He moved a couple feet to his left then started to correct back and there she went. Truck was well under weight limit. It's just that a common, ordinary on-road manuever ended up making that truck barrel roll 4 times. As he started turning back, the weight transferred. At that point he probably had 2/3rds the cargo weight on one corner of the truck. (L rear) Tire wasn't heavy enough to maintain control when it was suddenly weighted like that. It just doesn't make good sense to me to push things right to the absolute physical limits. In order to drive on a PUBLIC road, it makes sense to me to have a nice margin for error. Be that your own or another driver. (who might not know that you need extra stopping distance for example)

I think I can trump your driving experiences. I drive for a living, generally over 400 miles a day. Ive never been in a serious accident. Being in three serious accidents hardly qualifies you to judge what is safe and what is not and is nothing to brag about.
I see plenty of accidents, an average of about one per day. Alot of them involve kids (younger than 25) who have little experience and alot of overconfidence. Almost every accident Ive seen involve people in a rush. I would much sooner share the road with 100 "overloaded" pickups than one ignorant kid who thinks hes Speedracer.
Sharing the roads safely is not about what you drive, its about how you drive it. Accidents very seldom are caused by equipment failure and are almost always caused by human error.

 

[VA_Joe]

Live and learn - experience will always the best teacher. I'm sure if the fellow found the truck to be undriveable - he would have reconsidered his options (or at least I hope). If the noticeable lack of steering combined with little or no acceleration doesn't scare the you know what out of him - I don't know what will (oh I know - no brakes).

There is a time in everyones life when they realize that maybe two trips are better than one (especially when hauling brick). Maybe this was his chance to rethink his options and buy a trailer?

Besides - with the way the trucks are being built, marketed, and registered today - you never really know the "real" capacity until you get out and try it (rated capacity does not always equal driveability and vice versa).

 

[Kubotasrking]

Nobody seems to have noticed that the pallets are stacked under the tailgate. QUOTE]


Wow...there's the 2nd banjo.... Anyone up for a canoe trip?

 

[john_bud]

no tailgate damage, and no tiedowns, this was the second time that it was hauled this way and he had to go @30 miles no Hwy, yep the truck handled it fair!
But if one of our drivers did this i would be looking for a new driver! it can be done it was done dosent mean that i would do it! or let someone do it with one of our tractors or trucks.
I am sure that everone that has ever hauled much at some point has hauled to much for there truck!
and yes the pallets were put under the tailgate for that reason.

keep in mind that these were posted to put a smile on your face.

I took a look closely at photo #20 and the pallets are not under the tailgate. In that picture it looks like the edge of the tailgare is lower than the top of the pallets. Best case, it would only brush the edge as it flapped down to the ground.

I am smiling -- I also had both the gate straps on my Chevy's swapped out under warrantee. Both sets had broken with just my wide load on them. I do hope that doesn't mean I weigh more than a tractor!!

Oh, were I you, I would no longer help to load in what may be an unsafe mannor. You obviously feel that it is at best, not optimum if not down right unsafe. (You would fire a driver that did it, right?) Well, a shark lawyer would have you equally if not primarily responsible in any accident. You know it is unsafe and you helped. Not just passive aid, but active participation which gives the green light to the customer that it is okey doekey fine.

jb

 

[JoeinTX]

From the pics, this ain't cool....


They may well have managed the haul, but, it wasn't a good idea. It's a very small tractor, but, that's also a light duty pickup. Even a 10' trailer hitched to the ball would have made that much safer trip hauling this yard tractor. A 1/2 ton 6'er can handle that kind of trailer load much better than carried in the bed.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I think I can trump your driving experiences. I drive for a living, generally over 400 miles a day. Ive never been in a serious accident. Being in three serious accidents hardly qualifies you to judge what is safe and what is not and is nothing to brag about.
I see plenty of accidents, an average of about one per day. Alot of them involve kids (younger than 25) who have little experience and alot of overconfidence. Almost every accident Ive seen involve people in a rush. I would much sooner share the road with 100 "overloaded" pickups than one ignorant kid who thinks hes Speedracer.
Sharing the roads safely is not about what you drive, its about how you drive it. Accidents very seldom are caused by equipment failure and are almost always caused by human error.

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this reply. One, I'm not "bragging" about almost being killed by someone who foolishly thought they could get away with overloading a truck and taking to the streets.

As you pointed out, my being IN three serious accidents (ALL caused by someone else) doesn't "qualify" me as an expert, yet YOUR personal experiences somehow qualifies YOU. 41 years of driving, averaging well over 50,000 a year do qualify me as an experienced driver. And make that a driver who's NEVER had an accident of my own making. I'm a safe driver. Part of being safe is NOT hauling a load that would dramatically increase my chances of causing an accident. Sharing the road safley is about how you drive. You were correct there. But it IS ALSO about what you drive. According to NTSB numbers, over 25% of NON ALCOHOL RELATED fatal accidents are caused by vehicle equipment failures.

And my original point is still valid. You can be the safest driver on the planet and NOT be safe from someone who doesn't know (or care) that you need double the normal stopping distance because you decided to overload your pick-up.

 

[lawn_king]

Is that grey object on the roof their jug or is it in the cab

 

[RayH]

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this reply. One, I'm not "bragging" about almost being killed by someone who foolishly thought they could get away with overloading a truck and taking to the streets.

As you pointed out, my being IN three serious accidents (ALL caused by someone else) doesn't "qualify" me as an expert, yet YOUR personal experiences somehow qualifies YOU. 41 years of driving, averaging well over 50,000 a year do qualify me as an experienced driver. And make that a driver who's NEVER had an accident of my own making. I'm a safe driver. Part of being safe is NOT hauling a load that would dramatically increase my chances of causing an accident. Sharing the road safley is about how you drive. You were correct there. But it IS ALSO about what you drive. According to NTSB numbers, over 25% of NON ALCOHOL RELATED fatal accidents are caused by vehicle equipment failures.

And my original point is still valid. You can be the safest driver on the planet and NOT be safe from someone who doesn't know (or care) that you need double the normal stopping distance because you decided to overload your pick-up.

Im not sure where Im going either, you took us down this path. That 25% figure you put out there is a little suspect. The numbers Ive seen suggest that 15% of fatal accidents are attributed to equipment and 85% are human factors. Those numbers dont include non fatal accidents though. None the less, I think its agreed that a great majority of accidents are not caused by equipment. That was my point.
Your point about the overloaded truck with the driver that doesnt know his stopping distance. Do you attribute that to unsafe driver or unsafe equipment? I say thats just another case of unsafe driver. That same overloaded truck could've been driven by another driver just as safely as any vehicle. I guess I dont see unsafe vehicles or unsafe equipment, I see unsafe people in the drivers seat. That truck or equipment is only doing what the driver tells it to do. Any accident cause short of a tire blowout, steering or brake system failure in my book is attributable to human error.

As a side note, dont be so sure you weren't a contributing factor in your accidents. You weren't just dropped in an unsafe situation, you made the decisions that put you there. I'll bet if you honestly look back to the moments before the accidents, you will see some sign of things to come that you didnt notice at the time or didnt pay attention to. Many (almost constantly now that everyone has a cell phone attached to their ear) times a day I get a mental "red flag" and I remove myself from situations that make me uncomfortable. I have no way of telling if I have avoided an accident or not but thats ok with me.

You average 50000 miles per year for 41 years??? Come on, thats about 200 miles a day, five day a week, for 52 weeks a year for 41 years. Thats about 2050000 miles. You must have one heck of a good job to commute 200 miles a day for 41 years.

 

[roxynoodle]

Ok, I did take my tailgate off for loading/unloading the lawn tractors.

 

[sandman2234]

Well, I am not going to judge those pictures, because I don't know the man or his truck, but I will tell you I hauled my 1100 4x4 in the back of my '91 Chevy truck after the first year. I just got tired of dragging out the trailer and having to go over it with a fine tooth comb everytime I wanted the tractor across town. The trailer was a little on the light side, due to single axle, dispite me going under it and completely reinforcing it so it could handle whatever I (or mainly the people that borrow it from me) throw at it.
My 1/2 ton p/u had the highest load rating for that year. It is also an extended cab which gives it a little longer base to add weight to the front end.
Bottom line, I feel like it was a lot safer in the back of my truck than on that trailer, and that is what I did for the 12 years. I never loaded with the tailgate down, and used aluminum ramps to load it with. (as used to haul cars in the commercial car hauling business). My tiedowns were stong enought to hold it, and I never thought about it coming out of the truck.
As far as the brakes, as with any loaded vehicle, I give myself room for stopping, and stay alert to the movements of other vehicles.
I have been stopped twice while hauling the tractor, and neither time did the question of my load come into the conversation, nor did I get a ticket.
I witnessed several wrecks over the years, and one was while hauling the tractor, which is why one pulled me over. The people in the accident saw my tractor and told the officer, who saw me going back a couple hours later and wanted to know what I saw.
As far as RayH is concerned, and his thinking that he is ok to judge other drivers since he has a lot of experience, I can relate. Doesn't make him right, (or wrong for that matter), but I can relate to him since I also drive for a living. Before I took this last job driving locally almost six years ago, I added up my logbook driving for as many logbooks as I could find, dispite the fact that all miles driven don't end up in a logbook and still had 2,400,000 miles of watching other people have accidents. My only encounter has been one where I was avoiding a head on collision and my tire caught a pole, cracking the pole. No vehicle damage, but I had to pay for the pole. I also see more DUMB accidents locally than I ever did over the road.
YES, I KNOW I HAVE BEEN LUCKY!!!
David from jax

 

[shane]

I just can't believe the stupidity of this! I know you want to only envoke smiles, but that's like posting pictures of someone torturing a child to envoke a smile. It's just not funny when someone goes out in public and puts my families safety in jeopardy. Not only is this stupid on the driver's part, but yours as well. So far, I believe JohnBud was the only one who mentioned you have some liability is this insane act as well. If I were a dealer, there is no way I would have let some clown do something like that on my lot just to make a dollar. Shame on you. It's bad enough hauling a heavy load on the roads today that are safely secured and within "safe" weight limitation, but this is just rediculous. You could have met him half way to get his money and hauled it for him.

 

[755inNY]

I agree that its a heavy load for that truck, I just dont see it being a danger. Look at the pics. The truck is sitting almost level. A good deal of the weight is on the front as well as the rear axle. I could see your point if the front of the truck were floating but to me, it looks like the load is well distributed. With the loader over the cab and the engine infront of the rear axle, I'd say at least 2/3 of the tractor weight is in front of the rear axle.

Anyway, theres my opinion based on the very limited information those pictures present.

Almost level??? Boy am I glad your are not building a house for me (not that you build houses but you get the point). The clearance from the rear tire to the body is several inches less than the clearance at the front tire. There is a very visible difference in clearance from the rocker panel to the pavement at the front versus the rear.

The weight in the bed and the distribution of that weight makes the load unsafe. Sure, we see loads like this on the road all the time and 99 times out of a 100 (I made that number up, it may be lower or higher) the driver makes it without a major incident but that doesn't mean his shorts are clean when he gets there. But we have also seen or read about the accidents that were caused because of an unsafe load.

The point is, there are safer ways to have transported this tractor.

Oh with regards to your comment on slide in campers: I admit to not knowing a lot about them but the truck manufacturer's make special versions (camper special or camper package) that have heavy duty suspension components so the truck does not sit like the one in the picture and I ususally see some type of frame running cross wise under the truck that the camper is attached to help handle the side loads.