No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.)

[Harrygoodwrench]

This scenerio just sounds odd to me. My own opinion is if this happened right after changing the oil then somehow the oil pump lost its prime. Don't ask how but things happen sometimes.
I've rebuilt many an engine and some just act differently than others. Many a Buick 231 V-6 (with front cover mounted oil pump) if not packed with grease would not self prime period. There was a way to assist the prime if lost. Remove pump cover and pack with grease or use a external pump/prelubrication system to pressurize the oil galleries.
Before pulling this engine apart I would at least put a mechanical gauge in place of existing gauge and seeing what the reading is. I would try (at least once) revving up throttle to see if it oicks up prime and produces oil pressure.
This is what I would try as it sounds just plain odd that this all happened after a oil change.
Just my opine. good luck.
Harry

 

[RonMar]

He said he had it running with oil pressure a few days AFTER the oil change. It was running with pressure when he left it and it had no pressure when he returned. Under the circumstances he described, it sounds to me like something broke. It could have been cold related along with the newness of the tractor. Could be a assembly or manufacturing flaw somewhere in the oil pump system and the added stress of pumping cold oil brought this flaw out.

Jinmaman: 25 degrees with 15W40 isn't too bad. Where are you located at? Since it was idleing, not under load and not fully warm, if it ran for a bit without oil pressure it might not have done too much other damage to bearings.

From what I gather looking at the drawings, once the pan is removed, the pump assembly is held in with a single bolt through a hole in a tab along the long portion of the oil pump body(part #8). Oh, and 2 bolts where the oil output pipe flange bolts to the engine block. With these removed you should be able to lower the whole assembly straight down and out of the engine to inspect it.

On a properly working pump, you should be able to turn the small gear on top easilly by hand which should rotate all the internal parts(you may have to remove the 4 bottom bolts and the suction filter body#18 to see this). If all looks well, You could also put the small gear end in a chuck of a hand drill and placing the suction strainer end in a pan of oil, pump oil out the outlet pipe. You can also look back up the hole the oil pump plugs into with a flash light and inspect the camshaft gear that drives the pump.

You mentioned a pin in the assembly, part 12 on the drawing? I would say a more likley culprit would be the nut(#1) that holds the drive gear #4 in place on the drive shaft. there is a keyway and what looks like a shear key(#6). If that nut came loose, that could have allowed the small gear to shift and the key to dislodge or shear. The drawing only shows this as what looks like a flat and a lock washer.

It could also be that the bolt that holds the whole assembly in place came loose or broke and the camshaft rotation just forced the whole assembly down(bent outlet pipe) untill the gear disengaged and stopped driving the pump. Or the shaft could have broke. At only 5 hours, whatever is broke should be owed to you as warranty parts.

If you find a pump problem, it would probably be a good idea to inspect the main and rod bearings for damage while the oil pan is off. Swapping a pump dosn't look to be that difficult but I have not done it on this type engine. On those low hours a replacement pump should be covered as a waranty. If there are damaged bearings and or the camshaft drive gear is damaged, I would be talking to the dealer you bought it from, or the factory if you self imported.

Good Luck

 

[JINMA224XR]

<font color="blue"> I changed all the fluids a few days back and the engine got 15W40 oil. When I came out after the 10min warmup the pressure guage read zero and the idiot light was on. </font>

Hey JinmaMan,

Did you use an OEM oil filter, or a Crossover Oil Filter?

Before removing the pan, I think that I would try this: Change out the oil filter again, with the Correct OEM Oil Filter, and prefill the oil filter with oil, before installing it.

I am thinking that it just might possibly, be with your oil filter, but it is just a guess.

Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[jinmaman]

Thanks for all the great info,

I have no choice now but to drain the oil and remove the pan to inspect things. I hope it is only the bolt that holds the pump in place that got loose and allowed the pump to drop.

I will do the inspection Monday or Tuesday night and hope for the best. I will keep you posted!

P.S. will the drive shaft need to be removed to drop the oil pump. If so, how is it removed.

 

[RonMar]

Yes, The front driveshaft will probably need to be removed to get the oil pan off. The drive shaft assembly has some clamps on the outer tube. Loosen these and telescope the outer tube together to expose the ends of the drive shaft. The rear of the shaft has a spring loaded assembly that must be pushed forward to release the shaft. There are 5-6 large ball bearings in each end "cup" like a CV joint on a front wheel drive car. These ball bearings will most likley fall out as you remove the shaft so watch for that and don't loose them.

For re-assembly use a little axel grease to hold the balls in their proper notches in the "cup" while you slip it over the "star" end of the front axel input shaft and transfer case output shaft. The diagram in the manual shows this assembly pretty well.

 

[ToolManRick]

Sounds to me like that is the next step, to remove the oil pan. It may be possible that the key on the driveshaft got missed and it's loosened up.

Maybe Greg will contribute his knowledge on removing the front drive shaft or if it needs to be removed. He stated in another post that he was constantly working on his Jinma when he owned one. Sounds like he is full of experience and very helpful.

I can have a look at mine when I get home this evening if he hasn't put in his 2 cents worth by then.

 

[Boltonpower]

Guys,

Those ball bearings WILL fall out when you remove the shaft.
I put a towel underneath so the balls won't bounce
away. I actually keep an old towel in the shop as an official
calibrated small parts movement limiting device ;^)))
When you re-assemble try putting a blob of axle grease in
the slots to hold the balls in place while you refit the sleeve.
It's tough to try and hold more than 1 or 2 of them with fingers
while doing this..

Cheers
Graham

 

[CSH]

If the 224 is like the 254 the oil pump can be checked out without removing the driveshaft. I'm not sure if the pump can be removed without further disassembly since I haven't done that, but the oil pan can be dropped with the driveshaft in place. It would be easier with the driveshaft out of the way, but I was deterred from attempting this as small parts can sometimes be difficult to corral, especially ones that can easily (and are likely to) roll to inaccessible locations.

 

[SPIKER]

Every small part item I ever work on seems to drop& bounce into the car frame, the drain hole or slide someplace down into the depths of H.E.L.L so I've assembled a mass of small magnets, telliscoping grab tools and flash lights going after thing... Usually what I drop is non-magnetic and falls inbetween steel items anyway lol /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

please keep us posted on what & how you go about looking for the prob. Like I noted my gauge died quickly (around 5 hrs) and I replaed it with a dirrect reading one which was 100 times beter resolution & clatiry ..

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[JINMA224XR]

<font color="blue"> I have no choice now but to drain the oil and remove the pan to inspect things. I hope it is only the bolt that holds the pump in place that got loose and allowed the pump to drop.

I will do the inspection Monday or Tuesday night and hope for the best. I will keep you posted! </font>

Hey JinmaMan,

How's the tractor coming along?

I hope all is ok.

Joe