No Standard Transmissions

[cowboydoc]

I agree there are certainly instances where an auto is better. I have a clutch fan, two coolers, and a tranny gauge. Fryed tranny after only 3500 miles of towing. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif. Never even got above 200 degrees and it's toast. Read ford-diesel.com and you'll see the auto's are pretty poor. Read the Dodge and Chevy pages and you'll see they don't like the autos much for towing either and alot of them are in the shop more than on the road. To say the least I'll be trading mine in when that new 6.0l comes out this fall and match it with the six speed.

 

[DK35vince]

patrickg,
I pull a 10,000 # trailer nearly every weekend,fully loaded standard transmission in my F-250 Ford.160,000 miles on the truck and have never smelled the clutch.

 

[patrickg]

wolbert, Why, that is just wonderful. I'm sure many drivers have done as well or better. I note you didn't say anything about backing up steep hills or winding steep hills from a dead stop on the hill or pulling a steep incline from a stop with poor traction. I have no difficulty admiting the superiority of the standard tranny in some applications but the converse is true as well. There are apps where auto is better, apps where either are fine, and apps where manual is better (assuming a driver not a truck herder).

Slightly related annecdote: When in Minot ND (USAF/SAC) every winter dependents of military (wives and older children) would be stranded in town, unable to return to Minot AFB 15 miles north of town due to their innability to drive out of town. The town is in a river valley and the US highway out of town goes up a fair incline which when icy was a problem for vehicle herders. They start up the hill, stop at a light, and when the light changes they press the accellerator and the car backs down the hill. Snow, ice, frost, whatever made it fun to watch. Car herders press on the gas to go, if the car doesn't go enough, they press harder. This was almost universally true, stick or auto. To unblock the road ahead I have had to drive as many as 3 women up the hill to clear a path for myself. Now for the punch line... I could usually (not always) show them how to do it if the car was an automatic but don't recall ever succeeding with manual. Again, a driver could do it, but car herders aren't drivers. This was pre-traction control, oops that is only available with automatic.

I am a lisc pilot. I like a little aerobatics now and then and enjoy messing around in the air but on a long cross country flight I dearly love autopilot. I really miss autopilot when driving on a long haul. Cruise control is great but not even a close second to autopilot (especially autopilot with nav interconnect and altitude hold). You are freed to do management duties rather than repetitively engage in motor skills coordination practice.

Yes, I do have a manual shift vehicle, a VW powered dune bugy. Strangely enough when my wife and I got married she didn't know how to drive an automatic and wasn't checked out with three on the tree, only four on the floor as her family had a Corvair, VW, and a karman Ghia and I was driving an MG-A and then a Sunbeam Tiger after we got hitched so after 3-4 years of marriage she had her first auto tranny experience (it caught on just fine with her).

Patrick

 

[Kodiak]

<font color=blue>"Real farmers wouldn't be caught dead plowing with a horse, they do it by hand with a bent stick if not their bare hands, none of that sharpened steel for them.</font color=blue>


Caveman think plowing for sissies. Real caveman wouldn't be caught dead plowing with a horse. They would just club it and eat it.

 

[patrickg]

Richard, Where was the the tranny temp gauge sensor installed? I saw one brand of kit with instructions on where to put the sensor and it was in the line coming out of the cooler in the radiator. I don't like that much as it tends to be strongly related to the radiator temp. You can fry the tranny but the scorched fluid coming out of the water bath heat exchanger in the radiator is a decent temp which inspires overconfidence. Put the sensor in the pan or in the line going to the radiator/cooler which ever comes first. Another point of contention is where to put the accessory cooler(s). I strongly recommend in the line on the way to the radiator. This will cool the most as the fluid will be the hotest prior to being in the water bath. It also reduces the heat load on the radiator which can be a benefit.

Patrick

 

[hosejockey2002]

If you are towing with a light duty manual transmission truck, starting on a hill with a load is murder. If it's a heavy duty pickup, especially the new 6 speed diesels, first gear is so low that if you have to slip the clutch on a hill you are doing something seriously wrong. Even when I had my older F250 with 460 gas and a five speed I never smoked the clutch, even when towing 7,000 pounds. It definitely takes a bit more skill than just putting it in drive and mashing the gas, but if properly geared and driven, I think manual transmissions are easier on the equipment. As far as backing up a steep hill goes, if you are smoking the clutch in a low geared heavy duty pickup, in the same situation with an auto you will be putting that tranny under a tremendous amount of heat stress. I don't have one yet, but I would definitely prefer a 6 speed 4wd diesel. If first gear or reverse is still too tall, there is always low range.

 

[RobS]

The Ford Super Duty locking hubs have an Auto and a Lock position. In Auto it will engage moving forward (must be a ratchet mechanism) then disengage when the T-case is shifted out or you go backwards. Our builder has this set up and she got her truck stuck first day on our site. Did fine moving forward but only had 2WD in reverse. Her husband came out to find she hadn't locked the hubs. Once he did that all was well and of course I've had to rib her about it ever since.

It just goes to show that even that word "auto" inspires a false sense of confidence /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[RobS]

I think I'm following you Patrick...

Let's explore another aspect of driving. I like to listen to the radio when I drive. I set the volume to a level I like but find it too low at speed or if I put down the windows (with one of those automatic window putter downer things I might add). I always thought an automatic volume control would be great and it is now available on some vehicles (and motorcycles). Still fits my model as I have manually set the volume delta above ambient that I want to maintain. Take it a step further and the vehicle could assess your driving style and select the music to suit. If you are moving along briskly with a lot of accel/decel it could pick Rock and Roll. Stop and go traffic might suggest Rap. Drive down a bumpy road and the suspension sensors tell the radio to jump to a country station. Steady driving at or below the speed limit would result in easy listening. This makes perfect sense and would eliminate some crucial decisions on the part of the driver allowing more focus on the actual driving.

To go a bit further, let's consider the musicians making all that music. The Rap artists are probably the most advanced of the lot already using a lot of automatic music generation technology. All the rest have some room to grow. Why have any "manual" instruments. Music is just a collection of sounds, tones and rhythms. All of this can easily be generated on a computer now-a-days. Think of the savings!

Same with artwork. Why bother painting a picture when a digital camera can do a much better rendition automatically.

OK, I'll take my tongue out of my cheek now. Hopefully, we've had some fun and can all agree that like tractor color, it all boils down to personal preferences. After all, that's what makes life interesting anyway /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Egon]

Rob:

Can't hear my radio cause of engine noise so never use it.

Egon

 

[Wingnut]

same as cars .... I had to factory order my last Camry in order to get a stick ... and it was the last year that they made the Camry with a stick.

otoh ... MY tractor has a stick! Unlike all these wussies and their automatics! (just kidding, guys)

 

[cowboydoc]

My gauge is installed right into the transmission on the auxillary port. Has direct contact with the fluid. Ford also has a transmission gauge that comes standard.

 

[turnkey4099]

As to availability of manual. I am probably on my last truck of choice. 1/2 ton 2x and manual 4 spd used. I stumbled on one when my old one gave up but was sure I would never find one on a lot again. Hit an 89 F150 2x manual on my second stop and at my price. I don't ever expect to see another one. Every body now just HAS to have 4x whether they will ever use it or not. The new trucks are so duded up that you would be scared to use them to haul anything in them. I guess I am a dinosaur too. I beleive that a truck is a truck and meant for work not play or show and tell. I include off-roading for fun in the work category.

Harry K

 

[bgott]

Volkswagon has a connection to the vehicle speed sensor in their radios. The faster you drive, the louder it plays.

 

[patrickg]

Wow Richard, If my automatic were that fragile I'd want a standard too. Ford didn't do so good on that one. I have had 5 Ford trucks, 1 IH, and one Dodge. My previous truck and last Ford ('84) I had was auto and never had a problem. The Dodge that replaced it is auto and no problems yet (going on 70K). I always had good service from my Fords, stick or auto, but I only really worked the '84 and the '97 Dodge hard the rest had it pretty easy.

You certainly have a good gauge location but man oh man not good service if the tranny fails so easily. I would be singing a different tune if that happened to me. My big complaint on the Dodge Ram is the cruise control. It has gone out 5 times now, most recently last week. I have 100,000 mile waranty from Chrysler but the repair will not exceed the deductable by much. Not having cruise is a minor inconvenience but twice now its failure mode has been max throtle and one time it went max throttle and wouldn't shut off when I hit the brake or the off button on the steering wheel so I had to turn the key off. Real fun on the freeway at 75 since with a dead engine you don't have power steering or brakes.

I would like a good sturdy 6 speed with a BEEFY clutch on a powerful diesel like mine, especially if I were the only driver. As it is I have 8 forward speeds in 2wd and another 4 in 4wd low range. I have the Gear Vendors Over/Under Drive auxiliary over drive. I can always find a gear to match the load, grade, and conditions. A 6 spd would be good enough with less complication and liklihood of failure.

Hopefully Ford didn't leave you out in the cold.

Patrick

 

[MJB]

My Chevy truck has that feature on the factory radio. They call it SCV (Speed Compensated Volume) and there are four settings on the dial so you can adjust how much the volume changes with speed. Real handy feature when the windows are rolled down.

 

[gerard]

Having driven both standard and manual, and liking the ease of an automatic for towing, my only question regarding durability would be why are tractor trailers and dump trucks mostly manual? Seems like maybe a manual holds up better to heavy duty use and it's cheaper to replace a clutch than the whole tranny? (But then I think a lot of tour buses are automatic.............)

 

[patrickg]

Rob, You crack me up man, funny stuff. Years ago (either before motorcycles had the feature or at least before I knew about it) I built a circuit to increase the volume as road noise increased with speed. I first used it in my '66 Sunbeam Tiger. I didn't have a MONSTER amp and a large speaker array so it only compensated up to moderate speeds but still, it worked OK from stop to 40-50 and helped up to about 70 where the open cockpit noise got louder than the sound system could compensate. Decades later as airplane noise grew in our neighborhood I re-engineered the idea a bit to boost TV or Stereo system volume when a jet went by. Sort of an attempt to maintain the S/N ratio.

There is more truth to some of what you say that you may have intended as only humor!

I think of cars/trucks or planes in a couple ways. 1. transportaion canister to get me there, an appliance, arrival or performing a task being the goal not the trip. 2. fun machine where the trip is the goal not the destination. I rarely flew myself on buisness, opting for commercial air with girls handing out peanuts and tablespoon doses of flat soft drinks. I have vacationed by small aircraft and had a ball. The idea of having an automatic tranny in my dune buggy has no appeal. It would have to be lighter, stronger, and cheaper and then I might not want it. I like to "Play" with the gears and have better control in potentially life threatening situations, off road when pushing things more than just a little.

Still, until or unless I start having trouble with automatics that I work hard, I think, for me, with ego considerations deleted, the autos are a good solution. If the nature of my use were significantly different then perhaps manual would be better. I still believe there are three basic "zones" in the family of solutions for the "right" tranny. There is a set of uses for which the manual is best choice. There is a set for which autos are better. There are those where it doesn't makek a diff. It is my observation that trannys are frequently NOT picked under these criteria but instead as you said are picked by personal preference. Some folks don't want to be confused by the facts as their minds are already made up.

Most of what passes for critical judgement and analysis is folks defending their preconceived notions, rationalizing their prefered choice.

Patrick

 

[MDNick]

I currently own 3 standard transmission motorized 'vehicles'. A '96 F150 in6 300, a '83 goldwing, and an L3010DT. I like gears as is obvious. I have off again-on again been looking at F250 diesels. Yet to find one on the lot that was a stick. What a shame, I'll have to special order. Not a big deal, been driving what I got for 6 yrs, another 6 weeks from when I decide to buy really won't matter to me. Besides then it is MY truck, my color, my options, etc. Having said all that, auto's definetly have their place. Rush hour traffic in DC is no place to be with a stick. Fortunately I catch that about twice a year, so I live with the clutch for those times. Rest of the time, I wouldn't have an automatic, and it is just personal preference. I like Ford, I like Kubota, I like gears. The rest of ya just deal with it. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif It's my money.

As for the tour busses, I bet I know a real good reason for auto's in that app. A live load. That likes a smooth ride. It can be difficult to make a nice smooth transition in a stick. As the driver it is rarely even noticed. But you are anticipating the friction point. Some guy in row 32 ain't got a clue you're about to shift when he gets up to chat with his new prospect in row 29. At which point he does a face plant at her feet. Unhappy passenger, though she might be thrilled. Again, you as the driver probably didn't even notice it wasn't like a sheet of glass. I've noticed this when I'm driving. Passengers rock more than I do. But I have control of it and naturally lean back a bit harder when I ease in the clutch, and lean a bit forward when I let out. I might be totally off base, but it makes sense to me.

Nick

 

[MJB]

Another possible reason for the tour busses being automatics is beacuse they are "pushers". With the engine and transmission in the rear, the gearshift linkage would have to be about 40 feet long. Can you say "fork in a bowl of spaghetti"? Just a thought.

 

[jwstewar]

OK, I'm glad you are backing me up here. I wasn't totally off base as some implied I didn't know what I was saying. Maybe I hadn't heard it all from my cousin or maybe the dealership didn't completely understand it to explain it to him. Haven't talked to him about it since he bought it a couple of months ago to replace his 2001 350 CC Powerstroke that was stolen. Ironically it was recovered but the frame was bent and both driveshafts were broken as while the sheriff was chasing the guy he put it in a ditch (i.e. the bent frame though just slightly) and couldn't get out (i.e. the broken driveshafts) Had ruts/rubber where he had been spinning/jerking the tranny to get out - auto at that. Sounds like that auto did OK. They actually ended up totalling the truck as the theif had put about 2000 miles on it in the 2 weeks he had it and obviously had run it hard as oil was everywhere under the hood.