Non CDL F250 towing 12K trailer across state lines ?

westcliffe01 · Dec 30, 2023

Im sure there are many on this forum who have their CDLs.

I am moving from Michigan to Colorado next summer. Way back when I started prepping for the move (prior to my divorce) I bought the F250 and a 12k gooseneck trailer so that I could legally move my 8500lb backhoe and utility tractor which is a similar weight.

My 2008 F250 has a GVWR of 9800lb. If I hook it up to my 12k gooseneck the combined GVWR is then 21600lb. Im not going to be moving anything but my own personal property and its just from one home site to another.

In reading the Michigan CDL laws there seems to be a sticking point on trailer weights at 10K. But it seems to apply to trucks that by themselves have a higher GVWR than mine where a 10K trailer added to the truck takes you over 26000lbs.

Does anyone have some personal experience on the subject ? On the one hand it seems that if one is moving your own personal property this should not be an issue. Then I have seen recent youtube videos where the author had a new GM truck and a (rated)14K gooseneck trailer (with no load on it) and because the (rated) GVWR of the truck and trailer added up to slightly more than 26K he was fined $1000 and had to abandon his trailer at a highway rest stop and get someone else to recover it for him.

I have 4 loads I need to move, 1) a skid mounted shed that I will temporarily live in, 2) backhoe (8500lb), 3) Tractor (8500lb) 4) 20ft shipping container with lathe, mill, diesel generator etc) I know an empty 20 footer is about 4000lb by itself. Each trip will be close to 3000 miles round trip and be about a week since Im doing it by myself. Probably $5000 worth of fuel altogether.

RjCorazza · Dec 31, 2023

I think you have it right, but every time I read some state or DOT document I get bogged down in seemingly conflicting information.
My conclusion was that for non commercial towing, less than 26k GCWR is non CDL territory. I tow a 12k trailer with a 9900 lb GVWR F250.

bdhsfz6 · Dec 31, 2023

If you're only going to do it 4 times, why not just risk it and pay the fines if you get caught. With multiple states involved, and the complexity of the laws, you can always plead ignorance.

The example you mention is pretty extreme and I would bet, not that common for a private individual. Here in PA, the fine is $150 for each 500# over the limit. In your case for 600#, it would be $300. More severe penalties don't kick in until the overage is 4000# or more.

Hay Dude · Dec 31, 2023

Agree, just do it. Only a cop with PMS or TDS will bother to write you up.
Best thing to do is make sure the load looks “tight” and secure. Lots of straps.

Good luck. Hope the move is upward and successful!

sea2summit · Dec 31, 2023

I don’t think anyone is going to pull over an F250 with a gooseneck unless you’ve got a huge machine back there or drive across the scales over some crazy high number. You sound like you’re doing your best to comply with the laws, in this case they are hard to understand short of legal advice. If you’re under the federal DOT limits for CDL and within the ratings of your truck/trailer you should be fine.

Hersheyfarm · Dec 31, 2023

westcliffe01 said:
Im sure there are many on this forum who have their CDLs.

I am moving from Michigan to Colorado next summer. Way back when I started prepping for the move (prior to my divorce) I bought the F250 and a 12k gooseneck trailer so that I could legally move my 8500lb backhoe and utility tractor which is a similar weight.

My 2008 F250 has a GVWR of 9800lb. If I hook it up to my 12k gooseneck the combined GVWR is then 21600lb. Im not going to be moving anything but my own personal property and its just from one home site to another.

In reading the Michigan CDL laws there seems to be a sticking point on trailer weights at 10K. But it seems to apply to trucks that by themselves have a higher GVWR than mine where a 10K trailer added to the truck takes you over 26000lbs.

Does anyone have some personal experience on the subject ? On the one hand it seems that if one is moving your own personal property this should not be an issue. Then I have seen recent youtube videos where the author had a new GM truck and a (rated)14K gooseneck trailer (with no load on it) and because the (rated) GVWR of the truck and trailer added up to slightly more than 26K he was fined $1000 and had to abandon his trailer at a highway rest stop and get someone else to recover it for him.

I have 4 loads I need to move, 1) a skid mounted shed that I will temporarily live in, 2) backhoe (8500lb), 3) Tractor (8500lb) 4) 20ft shipping container with lathe, mill, diesel generator etc) I know an empty 20 footer is about 4000lb by itself. Each trip will be close to 3000 miles round trip and be about a week since Im doing it by myself. Probably $5000 worth of fuel altogether.

That dude was in business. You are not. CDL…”COMMERCIAL”. Are you commercial? Now some stupid states like cali address this with RV requirements. And yes, cdl are enforced by the gvwr on the vehicles/trailers, not the actual weight unless your overloaded. If you’re a biz and have a vehicle(s) with weight ratings over the 26k (10k trailer in some nanny states) and are empty you’re still fined and parked. The scales only come out to find if your overloaded past tagged or manufacturers weight limit.

Also, cdl laws are arbitrary number pushed by teamster lobbyist back in the early 90’s. The limits were also inspired by the current vehicle. Back then to tow 26k you had to have a pretty heavy vehicle. Now, with engineering and safety advancements current trucks can safely pull way more weight than what was available when cdl laws were put in place. the laws need updating.

Uncle_Charlie · Dec 31, 2023

You'll be fine. Try not to wind up in the "people towing or hauling something wrong" thread.

MattB4 · Dec 31, 2023

Don't know if they are still that way but Kansas caused me grief when I had to pass through on my move from Wa. To AR back in '98. I was pulling a GN #10k with my Chevy 1/2 ton pickup with various household items. Don't know the total weight anymore but it was under the overweight category. However in Kansas they not only required all trucks and trailers to stop at the truck scales but they also required a trip permit and fee. They held me at the Truck stop for over an hour while they did all kinds of checks on my papers, and who knows what, before they allowed me to give them money and proceed. At the time I was CDL licensed for just about any kind of vehicle.

So it might not hurt to check the States you intend to pass through to see if they have any "Gotchas".

Mike sandor · Dec 31, 2023

I went thru something similar regarding the need for a cdl when I purchased a large boat.
I got quite a few different answers even from the folks who are enforcing….. I called the Wisconsin dmv. They told me that under 26000 lbs, don't worry. When I pressed them for written confirmation, they told me to call the State patrol as they would be the one ticketing me. I called the State patrol and they said I should be fine. I told them I need to be 100% clear and legal. They said they would check on it and call back. An hour later, they called and confirmed that it is not what you are towing that matters, it is the combined GVWR of the truck and what is being towed. If that number is over 26000 lbs, you MUST have a cdl. So, my truck is rated at 12500 lbs, boat trailer at 22000. No question, I need a cdl.
I did tell them that this is for personal use, no monitary gain.
By the way, my actual weight loaded is just a bit over 25000lbs. Again, the GVWR trumps the actual weight. So, I asked the nice officer if I could ask a question. Say the wife and I went out for dinner, each had one beer, and get stopped for a trafic violation. The officer smells beer on my breath and I blow under the legal limit. Will I get a ticket for dui? He says no. I then ask, if I tow my boat and I am under the 26000 lbs threshold, will I get ticketed for being over weight, even though I am not. He said yes! The reason being is that I could be. Might be different in the states you are traveling. A friend of mine was ticked for exactly this reason, and he was not loaded. Personally, I was glad I got the cal a few years back, going thru the process here in Wisconsin is now kinda expensive as you must go to classes.

oldnslo · Dec 31, 2023

I have seen signs in some states require any vehicle over 10,000 lbs to go through weigh stations on the highways? Is this just for weight per axle verification or also an option to be pulled over and inspected? Just curious since I know there has been an increase in citations issued in this area for over weight vehicles especially pick ups pulling trailers. I think a lot of them are hauling CTL’s that are much heavier than you equipment.

YanmarFever · Dec 31, 2023

Just put one of these on your trailer and truck. It works for me all the time!
They think you're one of them.

bdhsfz6 · Dec 31, 2023

Mike sandor said:
I went thru something similar regarding the need for a cdl when I purchased a large boat.
I got quite a few different answers even from the folks who are enforcing….. I called the Wisconsin dmv. They told me that under 26000 lbs, don't worry. When I pressed them for written confirmation, they told me to call the State patrol as they would be the one ticketing me. I called the State patrol and they said I should be fine. I told them I need to be 100% clear and legal. They said they would check on it and call back. An hour later, they called and confirmed that it is not what you are towing that matters, it is the combined GVWR of the truck and what is being towed. If that number is over 26000 lbs, you MUST have a cdl. So, my truck is rated at 12500 lbs, boat trailer at 22000. No question, I need a cdl.
I did tell them that this is for personal use, no monitary gain.
By the way, my actual weight loaded is just a bit over 25000lbs. Again, the GVWR trumps the actual weight. So, I asked the nice officer if I could ask a question. Say the wife and I went out for dinner, each had one beer, and get stopped for a trafic violation. The officer smells beer on my breath and I blow under the legal limit. Will I get a ticket for dui? He says no. I then ask, if I tow my boat and I am under the 26000 lbs threshold, will I get ticketed for being over weight, even though I am not. He said yes! The reason being is that I could be. Might be different in the states you are traveling. A friend of mine was ticked for exactly this reason, and he was not loaded. Personally, I was glad I got the cal a few years back, going thru the process here in Wisconsin is now kinda expensive as you must go to classes.

In PA, a boat or RV owner is exempt from the 26000# CDL requirement. Laws vary by state though, so it pays to check.

westcliffe01 · Dec 31, 2023

The states involved will be Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska and Colorado. The Youtuber couldn't simply pay the fine and continue, he was immediately "taken out of service", in other words parked and the trailer disconnected. The 10k weight limit on trailers seems very arbitrary, its pretty much impossible to build en equipment trailer light enough to give an under 10k gross when the piece of equipment weighs 8.5k to begin with. There also seems to be the "hotshot" class of operators who are non CDL, I have no idea of the legal basis under which they operate since they appear to be getting paid for what they do...

westcliffe01 · Dec 31, 2023

I found this flowchart on the MI SOS website Link:

I will make sure to print it out and carry it with me when on the road. It seems pretty unambiguous.

Hersheyfarm · Dec 31, 2023

MattB4 said:
Don't know if they are still that way but Kansas caused me grief when I had to pass through on my move from Wa. To AR back in '98. I was pulling a GN #10k with my Chevy 1/2 ton pickup with various household items. Don't know the total weight anymore but it was under the overweight category. However in Kansas they not only required all trucks and trailers to stop at the truck scales but they also required a trip permit and fee. They held me at the Truck stop for over an hour while they did all kinds of checks on my papers, and who knows what, before they allowed me to give them money and proceed. At the time I was CDL licensed for just about any kind of vehicle.

So it might not hurt to check the States you intend to pass through to see if they have any "Gotchas".

That makes no sense, you follow the cdl laws of the state your registered in. Like cali with all their BS, hot shotters from other states can go in and get stuff with no cdl while residents there must comply with the 10k trailer thing.

Hersheyfarm · Dec 31, 2023

westcliffe01 said:
The states involved will be Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska and Colorado. The Youtuber couldn't simply pay the fine and continue, he was immediately "taken out of service", in other words parked and the trailer disconnected. The 10k weight limit on trailers seems very arbitrary, its pretty much impossible to build en equipment trailer light enough to give an under 10k gross when the piece of equipment weighs 8.5k to begin with. There also seems to be the "hotshot" class of operators who are non CDL, I have no idea of the legal basis under which they operate since they appear to be getting paid for what they do...

View attachment 841731

Dude, he was in business, and his gvwr was well above the federal 26.1K. Your not in business.

Hersheyfarm · Dec 31, 2023

COMMERCIAL…

Hersheyfarm · Dec 31, 2023

Here OP, read this.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/hours-service/elds/agricultural-exceptions-and-exemptions-fmcsa-safety

and here is your registering states law, read (15), which means Michigan follows suit with federal laws.
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(j...g.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-257-312e

Hay Dude · Jan 1, 2024

No need to do the typical TBN over-analysis.
Westcliffe is within the law based on the info he provided.
Just keep the flow chart on board and keep positive.

EddieWalker · Jan 1, 2024

My brother bought a motorhome when he was in his 20's so he could drink and drive. He's passed away now, but his entire life revolved around drinking beer all day long. He said that everyone driving an RV is all over the road, and if you are not speeding, the cops will never pull you over. I think he was right on this one.

Same thing goes with Uhaul vans. Nobody driving them has any idea what they are doing. They are overloaded, poorly secured, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are drinking while driving. Cops never bother with them unless you are doing something really scary. But I've dodged them on the highway and almost hit a cop car because of it without anything happening. There really isn't anything scarier on the road then a UHaul pulling a trailer!!! and nobody is going to pull them over, they are invisible to the police!!!!

When I moved to Texas, I rented U hauls three times and flew back to do it again. I pulled a trailer twice without any regard for weight or the laws. If it fits, it goes.

If I ever move again, I'm renting a Uhaul and pulling a trailer. It's cheap, easy and nobody messes with you!!!