Noob... what do I need? Advice please!

Dan_w · Feb 11, 2005

I have spent 2 summers in my new home in Southern MD. I live on 4 acres of slightly wooded, slightly sloped land. However, only about 2.5-3 acres need mowing. When I moved in I purchased a 17hp 42" Craftsman mower. After 2 summers of endless mowing I am ready to move up to a real machine.

I have already started looking. My wife and I quickly decided we wanted a versatile tractor over a ZTR mowing machine that could tackle our yard in an hour or so. We like to work in the yard, and spend a lot of time gardening. We have been drawn to the Kubato BX2230 with FEL. We have enough trees that I don't think a pull behind mower makes sense. However, after spending an evening reading these forums I am inclined to move up to BX23 with a 60"MMM. Before pricing anything I was thinking 8-9k but now I think I have talked the wife up to 14-15k, but the BX23 will run 16-17k plus tax. I am looking for any advice. Do I really need a BH? Does it make more sense to rent one when I need it? Seems people realize they need it after they have it, but if I will never miss it do I need it? I guess I feel like I’m back to square one. I don't want to under buy (did that once and don't want to suffer the pain again), but I also don't want to go over board. In reality
I have no clue of what I need.

Here are some projects that I possibly foresee needing a BH:
Dig stumps out
Put my downspouts in to the ground and have them drain out into the yard
Mulch all the flower gardens
Move dirt for gardening and filling in some depressions in yard
Put in 25 to 30 small to medium trees each year for the next 3-4 year
Vegetable garden
Maintaining gravel driveway 500 by 8 ft ?!?! (currently asphalt like driveway that is washing away, the stuff they dump and the cars weight causes to harden into driveway)
Grading

How long would it take a BX22/23 with 60” MMM to mow 2-3 acres of slightly wooded and sloped land? I only mow the wooded area once ever 4 to 6 weeks.

Please, any advice is much appreciated /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks,
Dan

Bob_Skurka · Feb 11, 2005

Do you need a backhoe? No. Could it come in handy sometimes? Yes. But to better answer these, how many stumps do you really want to remove and how much time do you want to devote to removing them? Taking out each stump can take a couple of hours. Other POSSIBLE backhoe chores included planting 25 small to medium trees each year. that is about what I do every year, I use a Post Hole Digger with a 12" auger bit (and I have a back hoe if I want to use it). Or digging underground drain lines to connect up your gutters . . . for that you need about a 4" flexible pipe buried under the lawn, a bucket will probably be 12" wide. It will dig that trench, but take out more than you need. I dug mine by hand when I buried mine. If I had to do it over again, I would use a middle-butster to cut a narrow trench and clean it up by hand, lay the pipe and backfill using the FEL bucket. Even in my clay soil it wasn't that big of a deal to bury those.

Disclaimer . . . I am one of the very few on TBN who consider small back hoes to be a general waste of money. I don't like them. Mine is a Great Bend unit sized for a Kubota B2910 so it is double the size of one you are considering. I consider it too small for most of the projects I tackle with a BH so I end up renting real equipment when necessary.

As for moving up in tractor size, I think you are moving up the right way by staying in the SUB-CUT class based on your description of mowing around trees. I also have a lot of trees to mow around and I have a small frame CUT, which is one frame size larger than the BX series tractors. It is too tall to get up close and personal to the small and mid-size trees. A SUB-CUT class tractor will have a lower ROPS bar and lower seat height (so the branches are far less likely to slap you in the face!) than a small frame CUT. Staying in the BX class of tractor but moving up to the 60" mower deck seems like a very wise choice.

Now as for the BX23, nice small machine, well refined. Can you order it without the BH and add a BH at a later date if you determine you need it?

As for the driveway work, you're probably going to need a grader blade or box blade, depending on how you need to deal with it. I'm guessing you have "chip & seal" as opposed to gravel based on your description. If so, you don't want to tear it up with a box blade. A grader blade will help move the material back where it belongs, but not tear up the compacted parts.

For the veggie garden consider a 48" tiller.

Boondox · Feb 11, 2005

Dan -- Welcome to TBN! I have a backhoe on my L3010 that I use a lot, sometimes digging up large rocks just for the fun of it. But I have 155 acres. Most of the stuff you describe could be done by hand or in the first week of BH ownership. Then what would you do with the hoe? We're talking about a lot of cash here!

Secondly, I'm a little confused about your mowing needs. You mentioned 2.5 to 3 acres and a MMM, but then you mention the slightly wooded sloping land. Are we talking about a lawn under sparse trees, or is there some brush you need to cut as well? If the latter, a finish mower isn't the best implement for the job. More details on the mowing chores, please.

Pete

Cliff_Johns · Feb 11, 2005

About the Back Hoe, I suggest you read the small back hoe thread Here (though you can ignore the irrelevant, off topic diversion at the very end) I think it covers just about everything you need to know about the utility (or lack thereof of small back hoes.

Cliff

Egon · Feb 11, 2005

As the others have stated. Backhoe will be expensive and not used much and when used have limited uses due to size.

The small tractor, FEL, MMM, Rear blade and/or box blade, Rotatiller, And a small trailer.

I might even go with the smaller tractor for the tree mowing.

Note: I have a Kubota B7100 Hst that would do all you have stated plus.

Egon

Dan_w · Feb 11, 2005

Thanks for the quick replies. I currently have 3 big stumps and 3 small stumps. Soon I will have another 5 to 7 medium stumps and some more firewood. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I never thought about the middle buster. I dug one trench by hand. It was a lot of hard work, our ground is hard! I do want a posthole digger.

Of the four acres, 1.5 acres is a wide open field, .75 acres is under sparse woods, 1.25 acres is open around the house with flower gardens and driveway ect, and half acre is heavy brush that I rarely mess with. What other kinds of mowers are there?

Thanks Cliff I will read that post.

Cliff_Johns · Feb 11, 2005

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As the others have stated. Backhoe will be expensive and not used much and when used have limited uses due to size. )</font>

Interestingly, my experience is the opposite, and I thought the discussion I linked to showed that most people on TBN who had a small BH were very glad they bought it and used it regularly (like me). My perception of the results of that thread may have been affected by my own delight in having a small BH.

I guess Dan_w will read that thread and decide what to make of the conflicting opinions based on his particular situation.

Cliff

AndyMA · Feb 11, 2005

I am one of those who consider a back hoe essential. Even when I had my smallest tractor a JD 750, I found there wasn't much I could do until I got the small hoe. I use mine for everything, lifting, loosing soil to box blade, back blade or york rake. Planting, loosing up soil for garden before tilling, moving rocks, lifting, digging out roots, etc etc. I find renting to be very difficult because I need it now and I can't line up all back hoe tasks to be together. Many of the things people on this board do with front end loaders and other implements are really backhoe tasks. Loaders load, back hoes dig.. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

And besides with the low rate Kubota financing you won't hardly notice the $$. Have you consided the New Holland TZ 24 with Woods backhoe? Let us know what you decide.

Andy

jpr62902 · Feb 11, 2005

I have the BX22 with a 60" MMM. Prior to that, I had a Crapsman just like you, and it seemed like I had to mow every other day to stay on top of the grass in growing season (those low end yard tractors are way underpowered, in my estimation). With my BX, I mow my acre lot in 55 minutes and that's with a BUNCH of obstacles. The mower does a good job of it, too. If I mowed in high range, I could do it faster, but my yard's a little too bumpy for that.

Regarding the backhoe, I LOVE mine. I also dug out drain lines to connect my downspouts, and depending on your grade, a middlebuster or subsoiler will not do the trick. Some of my lines had to be over 2 feet deep to maintain the right slope.

I've also dug up stumps, sidewalks and bushes, and planted trees and bushes with the BH and it works fine. You may have to cut a few roots in the process, but it will work. If you're planning for a garage in the future, the BX will also handle the foundation digging, no problem.

With the amount of trees you're planning, I'd guess you could easily justify the cost of the BH (same way I rationalized mine).

I prefer the OEM BH to the aftermarket Woods or Wallenstein models, mainly due to cost. The Kubota BT600 only adds about $2,500 to $3,000 to the cost of the machine while the aftermarket ones are 5k to 6k more and you also have to add the hydraulics and frame reinforcement to the BX2230. You also run the risk of having warranty issues with aftermarket BH's.

The bottom line is, I justified my BX22 for the same reasons you've posted here.