Not Enough Babies?

[paulsharvey]

Some of the no income tax states I’m familiar with just play a shell game. No personal income tax, but high sales and property taxes and lots of user fees.

None of us like taxes; but I think most people are willing to accept them If you see them being spent on upgrading/maintaining infrastructure. Sure, we all grumble and complain, but we accept it. It's when you see it clearly being dumped on ridiculous stuff like homeless health programs, environmental parks, or to 2 lane an existing 4 lane road, to encourage riding bikes to work...

BTW public spending has waste in every sector you can imagine; including the 'sacred' parts, like law enforcement and education. Schools will completely swap 'systems' because a consultant say this if you buy this new program your test scores will go up. Has math changed that much that we need to change/upgrade programs ever 2 years?

I personally prefer to live in a lower tax, lower public service county; but I will admit, I do like trash collection (we do have that, but some neighboring counties do not offer trash pick for rural residents). Part of that is; you can't expect to have the County come deal with stray dogs, or expect monthly litter pick up on roads.

So; my county has pretty poorly rated schools; but next county east has the highest rated schools in FLa. Was driving though the north end (wealthier end) of that county at like 2;30pm on a Friday for work; and every intersection within like 2 miles of any school had 4 crossing guards. 4... at signalized intersections, with cross walks and all.... Just in a 5 mile section of road, that was probably close to 16-20 'Public Service Assistants' each with a cop car.

 

[jyoutz]

I may be wrong but California seems King of the Hill in user fees with a boatload of new in the wings.

I know several that retired to Nevada from California because they did not want to die in California and 2 are CPA’s with spread sheets showing estates benefiting greatly.

I have a son who lives in one of the no income tax states. He is buying a small house on a small subdivision lot. His property taxes are 6 times what I pay for my 3300 square foot house, 2400 square foot barn and 20 acres. His auto registration on a 2015 F-150 is 5 times what I pay for my Dodge 2500. There is no free lunch in the no tax states.

 

[paulsharvey]

I have a son who lives in one of the no income tax states. He is buying a small house on a small subdivision lot. His property taxes are 6 times what I pay for my 3300 square foot house, 2400 square foot barn and 20 acres. His auto registration on a 2015 F-150 is 5 times what I pay for my Dodge 2500. There is no free lunch in the no tax states.

Property tax of close to 1.8% the appraised value per year; tags about $110/year (new tags are close to $400), here in FLa. The property taxes can be killer on a paid for, large, older home.

Tennessee has what, 9.75% sales tax?

The flip side; you could be in NJ/NY/Cali, and pay high sales tax, high property tax, and a high income tax...

 

[ultrarunner]

Property tax of close to 1.8% the appraised value per year; tags about $110/year (new tags are close to $400), here in FLa. The property taxes can be killer on a paid for, large, older home.

Tennessee has what, 9.75% sales tax?

The flip side; you could be in NJ/NY/Cali, and pay high sales tax, high property tax, and a high income tax...

Thinking along those lines in that some states have the trifecta when it comes to taxes...

 

[Torvy]

Some of the no income tax states I’m familiar with just play a shell game. No personal income tax, but high sales and property taxes and lots of user fees.

That info is all publicly available and largely false.

Most states with high income Taxes also have high sales and/or property taxes (property is tough to compare because valuation is as important as rate).

I've personally lived (as an adult) in 3 states with no income tax and 2 with income Taxes. More states are dumping the income tax. It used to be just 5, TX, SD NV, WA and FL. AK, WY and TN have also dropped income Taxes. Many others have lowered rates.

 

[jyoutz]

That info is all publicly available and largely false.

Most states with high income Taxes also have high sales and/or property taxes (property is tough to compare because valuation is as important as rate).

I've personally lived (as an adult) in 3 states with no income tax and 2 with income Taxes. More states are dumping the income tax. It used to be just 5, TX, SD NV, WA and FL. AK, WY and TN have also dropped income Taxes. Many others have lowered rates.

I didn’t say every state. I was comparing where my son lives to my taxes. The comparison I made was a bit overstated, but the difference is still striking. My property taxes are $2900 annually, his is over $10K. My vehicle registration is $63, his is over $400. I could go on with the user fees he pays, but those examples will suffice. But he pays no state income taxes. There are a few states on your list that have been income tax free due to state royalties on resources that aren’t going to be there in the near future. It will be interesting to see how they respond to those coming changes. What taxes and fees will have to increase or services decreased? There are also some no income tax states that will continue to do well with the current model. Most of those are high population states that generate lots of sales taxes.

 

[plowhog]

His property taxes are 6 times what I pay for my 3300 square foot house, 2400 square foot barn and 20 acres. His auto registration on a 2015 F-150 is 5 times what I pay for my Dodge 2500.

Anecdotal information like this is notoriously difficult to square up. So many factors can influence the numbers. As simple as "is his vehicle newer and more valuable than yours?" Which would explain at least some difference in registration cost.

The County you are in has perhaps the lowest property tax rate in the entire nation-- .56 percent of value. Good for you! National average is about 1 percent. So pretty much anywhere else, your son's property tax would be about double, but not six times as much.

"6 times" higher property tax, all other things being equal, would be a property tax rate of over 3%. I've never heard of that. So- is your home purchase from long ago with a lower valuation compared to your son's more recently purchased home with a higher value? Does his property taxes included bonds, special assessments, HOA fees, or anything similar whereas yours does not? If any of those things exist it's not really a fair comparison.

After you equalize things out, the differences will likely shrink, maybe by a lot. Then you have to factor in the amount of income tax savings your son enjoys not having to pay-- presuming he is employed and being paid.

I moved from a high tax State (CA) to a no income tax State (NV) more than 10 years ago. Our DMV fees are roughly the same, also property tax rates roughly the same, maybe slightly higher in NV due to Prop 13 in CA. But the savings of income taxes not paid far overwhelms all the other numbers, making it less costly here.

 

[plowhog]

There are also some no income tax states that will continue to do well with the current model.

In Nevada much of the taxation is on gaming. Seems a "good bet" that will continue.

 

[paulsharvey]

In Florida, your property taxes could be close to 3%; if your county/school board/city all have the max of 10 mils, and if you don't qualify for any of the homestead/save our home ammendments (ie not your primary residence).

This has been discussed before; property tax and all; each and every state has to bring in revenue to operate. Now, the total state tax burden varies wildly. Also, there are unique ways they can do it, that don't affect residents as bad; Hotel tax; out of state hunting licensees, ect. Georgia for instance, instate fishing/hunting combo $150; out of state $400; Colorado, it gets weird, but depending on what you get, it could be over $3000 for out of state. Depending on how toll roads are set up, that's essentially a tax.

 

[Hay Dude]

Anecdotal information like this is notoriously difficult to square up. So many factors can influence the numbers. As simple as "is his vehicle newer and more valuable than yours?" Which would explain at least some difference in registration cost.

The County you are in has perhaps the lowest property tax rate in the entire nation-- .56 percent of value. Good for you! National average is about 1 percent. So pretty much anywhere else, your son's property tax would be about double, but not six times as much.

"6 times" higher property tax, all other things being equal, would be a property tax rate of over 3%. I've never heard of that. So- is your home purchase from long ago with a lower valuation compared to your son's more recently purchased home with a higher value? Does his property taxes included bonds, special assessments, HOA fees, or anything similar whereas yours does not? If any of those things exist it's not really a fair comparison.

After you equalize things out, the differences will likely shrink, maybe by a lot. Then you have to factor in the amount of income tax savings your son enjoys not having to pay-- presuming he is employed and being paid.

I moved from a high tax State (CA) to a no income tax State (NV) more than 10 years ago. Our DMV fees are roughly the same, also property tax rates roughly the same, maybe slightly higher in NV due to Prop 13 in CA. But the savings of income taxes not paid far overwhelms all the other numbers, making it less costly here.

Gubmit workers rely on confiscation of peoples incomes to pay their salaries, so the aforementioned actually like taxes. Higher taxes mean higher salaries, more benefits, higher pension multipliers, and more gubmit workers that also vote the same way.

“No joke”.