NX4510 HSTC Pricing

[gladehound]

Feelings aren't facts.

The acid test is this: Given the same operator, and otherwise identical machines that are sized appropriately for the tasks, when is the HST going to be slower than a power shuttle?

I don't own anything with an HST, so I'm not biased for or against them.

Is this the question to which you refer? When is the HST going to be slower than a power shuttle? This has been covered. It puts less power to the ground. It will not pull at as high a rate of speed so any aplication that requires max power to the ground is your answer. This is true even in like machines. But at the same pice point comparing HST to a much larger shuttle there is no comparison.

By the way, you are obviously biased towards HST. And it's fine to have a preference. It doesn't mean that you can't be objective. For you and for your situation, HST obviously works best.

 

[holeycow]

it surprised me that the rx is less expensive than the nx. At least I think that is what I figured out. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[GManBart]

Actually, the discussion was about NX4510 HSTC Pricing. holeycow simply ask why not the RX. He asked this becuase you can get the larger RX for a similar price. And thus the transmission debate began. Note that the original question was based on price point and comparing a larger power reverser RX to the smaller HST NX. Yes, holeycow has been a bit antagonistic. But really, you guys deserve it with the way you've behaved towards him.

First off, I haven't been anything other than polite to holycow, so don't lump me in with anybody else.

Second, I was talking about the transmission difference discussion this evolved into since the original topic has long since go by the wayside.

 

[murphy1244]

Auto or Manual, Same discussion in the Car forums for a "True" sports car.

 

[holeycow]

yup those guys are rough and tough. At least they think so.

 

[murphy1244]

yup those guys are rough and tough. At least they think so.

Yeppers, Mercyless. I gave up.

 

[GManBart]

Is this the question to which you refer? When is the HST going to be slower than a power shuttle? This has been covered. It puts less power to the ground. It will not pull at as high a rate of speed so any aplication that requires max power to the ground is your answer. This is true even in like machines. But at the same pice point comparing HST to a much larger shuttle there is no comparison.

This is a completely false argument that you guys keep throwing out, but it doesn't hold water. If the machines are "appropriately sized" as I stated, the HST will pull the implement just as fast as the machine with the gear will. If you need max power to pull an implement, you bought a tractor that was too small...different discussion. If you sized the tractor appropriately, it would have some power and traction left over when doing it's required tasks....the gear would have a bit more left over...that's all.

By the way, you are obviously biased towards HST. And it's fine to have a preference. It doesn't mean that you can't be objective. For you and for your situation, HST obviously works best.

Sorry, this is a ridiculous statement. I am biased towards HST for some things, not everything. If I was really biased towards them, I'd still own one, but I don't.

 

[holeycow]

Yeppers, Mercyless. I gave up.

yup, I did too. But then I re-grouped....silly me

 

[holeycow]

I came in trolling for a minnow and caught a barracuda. It seems that the barracudas are quite touchy about their choices......almost insecure really.

 

[gladehound]

First off, I haven't been anything other than polite to holycow, so don't lump me in with anybody else.

Second, I was talking about the transmission difference discussion this evolved into since the original topic has long since go by the wayside.

My sincere appologies. You are right, I can't think of anything that you wrote that was disrespectfull.

As for the discussion that this evolved into, it seems to me that the pro HST crowd wants to compare like machines and the pro power reverser crowd wants to compare like price machines. This split seems to be present throughout the thread. If at some point all agreed that we were only debating like for like machines please point that out.

In response to gear tractors being better for pulling you wrote:

Originally Posted by gladehound
This is a completely false argument that you guys keep throwing out, but it doesn't hold water. If the machines are "appropriately sized" as I stated, the HST will pull the implement just as fast as the machine with the gear will. If you need max power to pull an implement, you bought a tractor that was too small...different discussion. If you sized the tractor appropriately, it would have some power and traction left over when doing it's required tasks....the gear would have a bit more left over...that's all.

Isn't it logical that if you have a bit more left over you could either go a bit faster or use an implement that was a bit larger? Either way you get more done. Please clarify what is false about this logic.

And finally:

Sorry, this is a ridiculous statement. I am biased towards HST for some things, not everything. If I was really biased towards them, I'd still own one, but I don't.

Previously you stated that if you could get one in the size tractor you require you "Absolutely" would. Check Post #177. You said you gave up HST to go to something much larger. Sounds like you prefer the HST.

My only purpose in posting this stuff is to keep the logic clean for future readers.

Is should also be noted that the PR may be faster on rough loader tasks. I'd be hard pressed to equal my speed when moving snow with an HST because of the power loss. I can change directions faster with the PR and I've only had one for a few months (I did have manual shuttles before). The HSTs I've used just bog if you change too fast. I'm not refering to all HSTs because I haven't driven them all. But the four I've used can't change direction as fast as my PR. Yes, this is only my experience. no I didn't time them it is only my opinion. And it is just as valid as anyone elses experience or opinion and should be noted for future readers trying to make a decission.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Actually, the discussion was about NX4510 HSTC Pricing. holeycow simply ask why not the RX.

And the answer was that those tractor's frames are too big to wind through the woods. Allow me to demonstrate winding:

 

[gladehound]

And the answer was that those tractor's frames are too big to wind through the woods. Allow me to demonstrate winding:

I thought I told you to drive over them :laughing: BTW, I'm jealous of both your cab and your grapple! Negative 12F last nigh (that's not the wind chill).

 

[TSO]

I came in trolling for a minnow and caught a barracuda. It seems that the barracudas are quite touchy about their choices......almost insecure really.

More accurately, you came uninformed and lacking the adequate experience to make a relevant argument, and assumed that just because a machine might be larger, that it will be a better choice. Or, that because you have experience with, and prefer using, a certain kind of transmission... That another kind of transmission would be a poor choice, even in your limited range of experience. Even when others tried to educate you and provide relevant information that you were either unaware of, or too stubborn to admit to its efficacy, you passed on the opportunity to embrace common sense and instead hid behind your limited knowledge on the topic.

The simple fact remains that tractors are not built or featured to be a "one-size-fits-all" machine, and different sizes, weights, and transmission options (among other things) will benefit, or hinder, an operator depending on the required tasks.

Oh, nice job on your minnow/barracuda comment ... Speaks volumes. Looks like you came here just to be a troll and derail the thread after all. Thanks for wasting everyone's time.

 

[gladehound]

The simple fact remains that tractors are not built or featured to be a "one-size-fits-all" machine, and different sizes, weights, and transmission options (among other things) will benefit, or hinder, an operator depending on the required tasks.

I'm going to save this quote for the next time this topic comes up. We can just paste this in and be done with it!

 

[TSO]

I'm going to save this quote for the next time this topic comes up. We can just paste this in and be done with it!

Wouldn't that be nice if objective facts like this were all that was needed?

 

[holeycow]

More accurately, you came uninformed and lacking the adequate experience to make a relevant argument, and assumed that just because a machine might be larger, that it will be a better choice. Or, that because you have experience with, and prefer using, a certain kind of transmission... That another kind of transmission would be a poor choice, even in your limited range of experience. Even when others tried to educate you and provide relevant information that you were either unaware of, or too stubborn to admit to its efficacy, you passed on the opportunity to embrace common sense and instead hid behind your limited knowledge on the topic.

The simple fact remains that tractors are not built or featured to be a "one-size-fits-all" machine, and different sizes, weights, and transmission options (among other things) will benefit, or hinder, an operator depending on the required tasks.

Oh, nice job on your minnow/barracuda comment ... Speaks volumes. Looks like you came here just to be a troll and derail the thread after all. Thanks for wasting everyone's time.

I don't know what to say. You seem to be somewhat defensive from the get go.

You really haven't gotten my point from the beginning. You must have been through a few of these hst vs gear discussions.

This is quite childish and this time I am done.

 

[gladehound]

More accurately, you came uninformed and lacking the adequate experience to make a relevant argument, and assumed that just because a machine might be larger, that it will be a better choice. Or, that because you have experience with, and prefer using, a certain kind of transmission... That another kind of transmission would be a poor choice, even in your limited range of experience. Even when others tried to educate you and provide relevant information that you were either unaware of, or too stubborn to admit to its efficacy, you passed on the opportunity to embrace common sense and instead hid behind your limited knowledge on the topic.

The simple fact remains that tractors are not built or featured to be a "one-size-fits-all" machine, and different sizes, weights, and transmission options (among other things) will benefit, or hinder, an operator depending on the required tasks.

Oh, nice job on your minnow/barracuda comment ... Speaks volumes. Looks like you came here just to be a troll and derail the thread after all. Thanks for wasting everyone's time.

TSO - If you want threads like this to be resolved by objective facts then please start off with objective facts. Instead one of your early post was to tell holycow to go drive an HST and come back when he had something to contribute - not helpful. Holycow was just asking questions. Here again you continue to insult him. Makes no sense. What do you hope to accomplish (rhetorical)

I appreciate holycows contributions. The discussion made me think through this issue more than I had previously and I'm wiser for it.

 

[TSO]

TSO - If you want threads like this to be resolved by objective facts then please start off with objective facts. Instead one of your early post was to tell holycow to go drive an HST and come back when he had something to contribute - not helpful. Holycow was just asking questions. Here again you continue to insult him. Makes no sense. What do you hope to accomplish (rhetorical)

I appreciate holycows contributions. The discussion made me think through this issue more than I had previously and I'm wiser for it.

I can see how that could be taken as an insult, but that was not how I intended it. I had taken his initial comments prior to that as tongue in cheek and somewhat inflammatory...Was trying to head it off by saying to go try it then come back with actual experience, not assumptions. If I was misinterpreted then I apologize for not making it more clear.

 

[holeycow]

I can see how that could be taken as an insult, but that was not how I intended it. I had taken his initial comments prior to that as tongue in cheek and somewhat inflammatory...Was trying to head it off by saying to go try it then come back with actual experience, not assumptions. If I was misinterpreted then I apologize for not making it more clear.

Since I am a farmer and a professional forestry and, to a lesser extent dirtwork operations supervisor for many years (in some of the roughest country in western Canada), and have run various pieces briefly and regularly to the tune of many thousands of hours I take offence when someone(s) with obviously less considerable experience (obvious to me anyway, as it apparently is to others here) attempts to shut me down so rudely.

You seem incapable of believing that someone with considerable experience within and around many, many various pieces of real iron and agricultural equipment could possibly be able to have anything valid to offer here in this thread. Get real. That is your shortcoming, not mine.

I learned a few things here too. None of which came from you or those others with the same dismissive attitude. Only a few contributors to this thread could teach me anything about iron. THANKS to those guys. As it turns out, you and a couple of others are not them.

I am sorry about stooping to your(s) level at several points along the way. That is generally not my style.

This has become quite ridiculous and I am embarrassed to have been a part of it.

Sorry

Now kick me out again.

 

[TSO]

Since I am a farmer and a professional forestry and dirtwork operations supervisor for many years (in some of the roughest country in western Canada), and have run various pieces briefly to the tune of many thousands of hours I take offence when someone(s) with obviously less considerable experience (obvious to me anyway, as it apparently is to others here) attempts to shut me down so rudely.

I learned a few things here too. None of which has to do with equipment. Only a few contributors to this thread could teach me anything about iron. You and a couple of others are not them.

Sorry

Now kick me out again. Since I feel compelled to keep coming back.

Well, since you have zero experience with HST, especially in CUT form (the topic of conversation here) ... Your experience means next to nothing.

If this conversation was about forestry, or farming, or not having enough dignity or humility to admit that you're wrong ... Well, you'd be much more credible than most of us here.

What's this thread about again? Oh yeah, a new member looking for pricing on a HST CUT. Hmmmm ... Doesn't sound like your realm of expertise.

Which one of us happens to have meaningful experience in residential, light farming, and commercial landscaping applications with HST CUT'S? That would be me. And since I also owned a shuttle CUT, that also affords me the necessary experience to make relevant observations, PERTAINING TO THIS THREAD TOPIC.

Your experiences are just as valuable as everyone's else's, maybe more so because of your extent of experience ... But only when they are applied to a relevant topic.

Your ship keeps sinking further ... Will you ride it to the bottom? There's still room up here on the life raft.