I read that a blocked DPF can cause a turbo to overheat and burn up the seal. I think that Kioti has some serious issues with what is going on with these turbos and plugged DPF units. I am going to start a new post to see just how many people have had their turbo replaced or have oil in their intake hoses.
NX4510HST Smoking and Rapping
- Thread starter JimR
- Start date
I read that a blocked DPF can cause a turbo to overheat and burn up the seal. I think that Kioti has some serious issues with what is going on with these turbos and plugged DPF units. I am going to start a new post to see just how many people have had their turbo replaced or have oil in their intake hoses.
todd92
Silver Member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2005
- Messages
- 124
- Location
- Hunterdon County, NJ
- Tractor
- Case Farmall 75A, Kioti NX5510HST, Kioti CK3510SEHC, Farmall M, MF GC2310 TLB
But what caused the DPF to get blocked in the first place. Mine did auto regens for a couple of years, then quit and had to be manually regened. Then it would just go into limp mode. If they can't figure it out, I'm going to send the ECU to the guy in Poland and have the EGR permanently shut, the DPF disabled and gut the DPF. At least I'll have a usable tractor.
todd92
Silver Member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2005
- Messages
- 124
- Location
- Hunterdon County, NJ
- Tractor
- Case Farmall 75A, Kioti NX5510HST, Kioti CK3510SEHC, Farmall M, MF GC2310 TLB
Then the DPF plugging didn't cause the leaking turbo seal.
It is hard to say. I know for a fact that mine was leaking at 430 hours when I had the injector problem. Did the DPF clog up due to the bad injector which caused the seal to start leaking in the turbo? Did the seal start leaking prior to the bad injector? I honestly cannot say.
Kioti Dave
Gold Member
My problem was a bad injector with a turbo leak. Can't be sure which was first. The first thing they fixed was the injector. Went from 2 hours between regens (and constant limp mode) to about 8 hours. I don't know if the DPF can properly clean itself from the excess oil going into DPF?? When they replaced my turbo, the took the DPF off and cleaned it somehow. They didn't say how. Now getting 25 to 30 hours between regens. One other problem I have been having in the winter, is the PCV 'freezing' and creating high crankcase pressure. Dipstick blows out and sprays oil all over. Am very careful when I warm it up to be sure pressure isn't building. will take apart in spring to see what's wrong.
I think had they replaced the turbo when they did the bad injector back in 2019 my problems would have ended. They also cleaned out my DPF and I do not know how. That BS was 6 round trips to bring the tractor out and pick it up all within a 4 month period. They had me pull the intake hose to see if there was oil in before I brought it back for the 3rd time for the same issue. I told them it had visible oil in it. They said that was normal. Now I know from the new dealer that that is not normal. In my opinion you should be getting 35 to 45 hours between regens. That is what my tractor was getting. A few times I even hit over 50 hours before a regen. One time I even hit 57 hours. I always run the tractor at 2000 or above when using it. Your PVC freezing up is due to moisture inside of the engine. What the heck is causing that to happen. I see you live up North where it gets a lot colder than here in Mass. The crankcase is a closed system. I don't think that it should be happening. Are you using a block heater?
Kioti Dave
Gold Member
Yes, I use a block heater. Happened again today. The funny thing is it doesn't happen when engine is cold??? The dipstick blew out after about 40 minutes of work. Outside temp is minus 22 C. Shut tractor down for 10 minutes, then it was fine. You cannot replace the PCV only. Must buy entire valve cover, but only $85. When it warms up will take cover off to see what is going on. For what its worth, I checked dipstick several times in the first 10 minutes or so, and there was no pressure at all. When the pressure builds, oil gets into engine because it starts burning oil. Very noticeable.
End of story so far. Fuel test showed very low Cetane rating of my fuel. There was no fuel in the motor oil. Lousy fuel = blown motor, no warranty on the motor. I had a brand new motor installed in my tractor. I picked it up today and it purrs so nice. I don't ever recall it being so quiet. I paid for the motor. Warranty covered eveything else. The CCRT DPF exhaust has been changed, new turbo, new high pressure fuel pump, latest injectors, hoses, filters and everything related to the motor including all sensors, switches etc. On the fuel issue. I almost always buy my fuel from one station. I asked them after I bought my Kioti about their diesel fuel. They told me it was real diesel. After my motor launched I asked them about their diesel again. They said BioDiesel. From my research, a few others here and what the dealer and Kioti Rep told me is that BioDiesel will destory a tractor motor like these and not to use it. NEVER run BioshitDiesel in your tractor. I have ordered a Cetane reading hydrometer for testing my fuel. I will never let this happen again. Taxachusetts does not require gas station to list the Cetane ratings on their fuel pumps or if it is BioDiesel. Big lesson learned on this. I will be complaining to the State AG about making gas stations list the type of fuel that they are selling.
DieselBound
Elite Member
Sorry to hear about all the problems here.
As per the apparent finding on JimR's tractor, I'm thinking that the fuel issue is a bit curious.
From https://www.chipexpress.com/articles/rating-diesel-understanding-cetane-numbers/:
There are many different factors that are involved in determining the best cetane number for a certain type of engine. This normally includes the physical size of the engine, the way it is designed, how fast it operates, as well as its load variations. A less factor, but one that is counted all the same, is external weather or climate conditions. On the other hand, if an engine is operated with a fuel that features a cetane number lower than the recommended amount, there can be several drawbacks. The vehicle will not operate as smoothly, and the poor operation can result in vibrations as well as extra noises. Additionally, it could create a larger amount of emissions and wear on the engine. In some cases, the driver may even have difficulty starting the engine.
Types of Diesel Fuels and Corresponding Cetane Numbers
Most diesels for standard vehicles and general highway usage normally require a cetane rating that falls between 45 to around 55. The table below outlines the different grades of cetane numbers that correspond with various diesel fuels that are compression ignited.
---
According to those numbers the cetane of biodiesel is actually above standard diesel. BUT, that's "book. Reality could be different.
According to this paper, biodiesel CAN end up having low cetane values:
Reported values of the cetane number for biodiesel vary widely. For soybean oil-derived biodiesel, the values range from 48 to as high as 67. Some of this variation may be due to differences in the fatty acid composition of the soybean oil but other factors are also important. This paper reviews the historical development of the cetane number test procedure and its current status. It discusses the existing data for the cetane number of biodiesel and presents new data for the effect of the fatty acid composition and for fuel contaminants such as unsaponifiable matter and hydroperoxides. Data are presented for the cetane number increase resulting from blending small amounts of pure fatty esters with diesel fuel. These data indicate that the cetane number is most strongly affected by the saturation level of the fatty acids. The unsaponifiable matter does not affect the cetane number but higher levels of hydroperoxides increase the cetane number.
---
This is a pretty good read (with some worrying points):
https://dtnacontent-dtna.prd.freigh...olant/Detroit_Bio_Fuel_Position_Statement.pdf
I get fuel from a local, major, distributor: delivered on-site. It's not a biodiesel blend (it's off-road, though I don't know if all off-road is such). My Kioti has 638 hrs on it and has exhibited no engine issues at all: my regens happen at what I figure is a fairly typical frequency (I'm guessing 50hrs, maybe more?); I am pretty good about running RPMs at 1,800 or more nearly all the time (infrequently run lower, only for when hooking up implements and for things like a quick out and back in again for operating fence gates). I run Ford/Motorcraft HD Diesel oil, 10-30w or 15-40w: I run this in everything I have (I switched to it a couple years back when manufacturers went from CJ-4 to CK-4; it is spec'd almost identically to CJ-4 Rotella T6, which I primarily used to use; I don't like the specs on the CK-4 oils for my older equipment; Kioti spec'd CJ-4 [though, in theory, CK-4 is supposed to be better on DPFs; in 2016, my tractor's build year, CK-4 wasn't yet on the scene]).
As per the apparent finding on JimR's tractor, I'm thinking that the fuel issue is a bit curious.
From https://www.chipexpress.com/articles/rating-diesel-understanding-cetane-numbers/:
There are many different factors that are involved in determining the best cetane number for a certain type of engine. This normally includes the physical size of the engine, the way it is designed, how fast it operates, as well as its load variations. A less factor, but one that is counted all the same, is external weather or climate conditions. On the other hand, if an engine is operated with a fuel that features a cetane number lower than the recommended amount, there can be several drawbacks. The vehicle will not operate as smoothly, and the poor operation can result in vibrations as well as extra noises. Additionally, it could create a larger amount of emissions and wear on the engine. In some cases, the driver may even have difficulty starting the engine.
Types of Diesel Fuels and Corresponding Cetane Numbers
Most diesels for standard vehicles and general highway usage normally require a cetane rating that falls between 45 to around 55. The table below outlines the different grades of cetane numbers that correspond with various diesel fuels that are compression ignited.
| Types of Diesel | Cetane Numbers |
|---|---|
| Regular Diesel | 48 |
| Premium Diesel | 55 |
| Biodiesel (B100) | 55 |
| Biodiesel Blend (B20) | 50 |
| Synthetic Diesel | 55 |
---
According to those numbers the cetane of biodiesel is actually above standard diesel. BUT, that's "book. Reality could be different.
According to this paper, biodiesel CAN end up having low cetane values:
Reported values of the cetane number for biodiesel vary widely. For soybean oil-derived biodiesel, the values range from 48 to as high as 67. Some of this variation may be due to differences in the fatty acid composition of the soybean oil but other factors are also important. This paper reviews the historical development of the cetane number test procedure and its current status. It discusses the existing data for the cetane number of biodiesel and presents new data for the effect of the fatty acid composition and for fuel contaminants such as unsaponifiable matter and hydroperoxides. Data are presented for the cetane number increase resulting from blending small amounts of pure fatty esters with diesel fuel. These data indicate that the cetane number is most strongly affected by the saturation level of the fatty acids. The unsaponifiable matter does not affect the cetane number but higher levels of hydroperoxides increase the cetane number.
---
This is a pretty good read (with some worrying points):
https://dtnacontent-dtna.prd.freigh...olant/Detroit_Bio_Fuel_Position_Statement.pdf
I get fuel from a local, major, distributor: delivered on-site. It's not a biodiesel blend (it's off-road, though I don't know if all off-road is such). My Kioti has 638 hrs on it and has exhibited no engine issues at all: my regens happen at what I figure is a fairly typical frequency (I'm guessing 50hrs, maybe more?); I am pretty good about running RPMs at 1,800 or more nearly all the time (infrequently run lower, only for when hooking up implements and for things like a quick out and back in again for operating fence gates). I run Ford/Motorcraft HD Diesel oil, 10-30w or 15-40w: I run this in everything I have (I switched to it a couple years back when manufacturers went from CJ-4 to CK-4; it is spec'd almost identically to CJ-4 Rotella T6, which I primarily used to use; I don't like the specs on the CK-4 oils for my older equipment; Kioti spec'd CJ-4 [though, in theory, CK-4 is supposed to be better on DPFs; in 2016, my tractor's build year, CK-4 wasn't yet on the scene]).