NX6010 hydro transmission issues
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MinnesotaEric
Super Member
It should be in the #2 position but if you snap a photo of the hose leading to your rear hydraulic remotes (easy to shutterbug), we'll know if they tapped the right line as well because a new line will likely not have the giant banjo fitting or factory paint all over it.
Making an assumption of what I cannot see in your photo, it looks like they tapped into the right line.
For reference, from the factory, it looks like this.
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IslandTractor
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Yeah, I know it was a weak example, but if it were much more sloppy and uphill it could have beenI was not running the pto or course, so I was at normal rpm, somewhere between 1500 - 2000. Going to try and take a video now of the valve they installed.
I think the point DK35Vince and I were making is that traction might be an issue in the stream but virtually any tractor has enough horsepower to traverse that area. Obviously the bush hogging was very light as well and it didn't sound like you increased the rpms for that either.
One downside of having 60hp is that to run a bush hog efficiently it really does need to be near PTO speed to get the best cut. Not an issue for the light stuff you were cutting but lush grass will look better mowed with blades turning faster. I usually cut pastures with a flail mower and the flail is happy to cut at 2000rpm but the cut is cleaner if I run closer to PTO speed. I don't like the noise so I tolerate a less than perfect cut especially since I am just knocking stuff down to make sure the fields don't get overgrown.
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
What you're calling the #2 line must go to the P port on the silver subplate. The T port on the silver subplate must go back to your three point and rear remotes.
Anyway, they tapped into the right hose (which would have been a real blunder but could happen if they tapped into hose #1). Maybe it is just like the tech says: a restriction in the HST filter.
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
While we are talking capacities, I took the liberty to look up in the manual, do the conversion, and record my notes so that we have a definitive capacity.
The 9.9 gpm number I used before is a little too high. The HST models secondary pump flows slightly more than the gear 12cc/rev rather than 10cc/rev presumably to power the HST. Not a whole lot of parasitic loss whatsoever on the pump side.
Anyway, here is a screenshot of my manual.
The 9.9 gpm number I used before is a little too high. The HST models secondary pump flows slightly more than the gear 12cc/rev rather than 10cc/rev presumably to power the HST. Not a whole lot of parasitic loss whatsoever on the pump side.
Anyway, here is a screenshot of my manual.
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Here is my latest video of the new Kioti. I am still having the same delay in the forward/reverse pedals, which is very frustrating. The dealer put the larger valve on for the 3rd function and a different filter (70 micron) for the hydraulic system. There was no change in the operation after these 2 'fixes.' It responds immediately when it is cold, but as soon as it gets to full operating temperature, then it starts it's usual slipping/delayed response in the pedals.
I was using it in low gear and pushed the forward pedal (gradually, mind you) all the way to the floor, and then after it hit the floor it took another half second to full second before it started moving forward.
This is a very capable tractor, but I am getting really frustrated with this hydro. I have asked the dealer to contact Kioti HQ engineering for some guidance. Perhaps this is just the design (flaw) that I will have to live with???? That would really suck....
Am I the only one here?? Maybe my expectations are too high? Any other NX hydro users having the same experience????? And if it is designed to have that 'pause' when you hit the pedals, then why does it not do it when it is cold??? Thanks!!
IslandTractor
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Has the dealer operated the tractor? Have you operated another NX for comparison? Tough to determine if this is a problem or normal otherwise.
countrybumpkin
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Hate to hear that your still having issues, was thinking yesterday if you had found anything out. There are a couple of other 6010 owners here that I know of and none have had the complaint of a long delay after warn up. I'd really be curious as to what oil pressure and temp was from cold to warm up when you start noticing the delay.
countrybumpkin
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- Kioti, kubota
he showed a video a while back of the tech operating the tractor after doing some recalibrating the trans, but not sure just how long he operated it.
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
It isn't a design flaw. When my tractor is cold, I must push on the pedal more in order to make it move. Once warmed up, the tractor reacts to the point where I've never considered there is a delay.
For giggles, have you tried turning off the stall guard switch? With the stall guard switch on and linked pedal on, I've frequently experienced a lack of movement to go-pedal travel after the stall guard has done its thing. The engine revs and the HST, if it reacts at all, does so very sluggishly. The solution is to throttle the engine back down idle while not pushing on the forward or reverse pedals, which apparently resets the electronic HST and *poof* everything works as expected with the linked pedal switch on. My experience from this suggests a relationship between HST response and the stall guard feature in the software controlling the HST.
In other words, maybe you need a new ECU or body computer or one or both need a ref lash.
I do not have access to Kioti's own diagnostic software, but considering your drivability complaint, I'd be looking at the electronic control side that can mess with reaction from the pedal pots, to the HST computer to the ECU to electrical connectors to any electric over hydraulic valves in the HST as the culprit.
Yes, I have tried with and without the stall guard, and with/without the linked pedal. Does not seem to matter, except that when the linked pedal is on it is more noticeable, but only because the engine is revving higher and higher until the transmission catches up and starts to move the tractor. I normally don't use the stall guard unless digging real heavy, so for the most part it is off. I, too, believe this is an electrical or computer function/malfunction of some type, but it seems that the only real common denominator I can pin point is the heat. It works fine with no lag during the warm up and when the temp gauge is only a 1/4 way up. But when it gets to operating temp (temp gauge is about half way on the meter), then I start noticing the lag time... So, I can't help but wonder, if it works fine cold, then why when there's Heat? Of course, when it is cold I do not have a load on it, and I am not actually 'working' it, rather I do random pedal tests just to check it. But it always goes quickly forward/reverse until it starts getting hot....
It really almost feels like the hydraulic fluid needs to 'catch up' and get through the system. It also does that when I am dumping the bucket. That function seems to take forever! There too, it is like there is this longgggg lag time for the dump to actually catch up and dump as I'm holding the joystick to 'full dump.' that too, will take at least 3 seconds until the fluid seems to 'catch up' and then it finishes the dump just fine.
Surely they must be related? It kind of feels like the fluid has to travel miles until it gets to where it needs to be, hence, the lag....! It is literally the exact same feeling as an automatic transmission that is slipping. All I know is that it is really frustrating. And worse, if this is how the thing really operates 'normally,' it is a huge disappointment to say the least!!
For giggles, have you tried turning off the stall guard switch? With the stall guard switch on and linked pedal on, I've frequently experienced a lack of movement to go-pedal travel after the stall guard has done its thing. The engine revs and the HST, if it reacts at all, does so very sluggishly. The solution is to throttle the engine back down idle while not pushing on the forward or reverse pedals, which apparently resets the electronic HST and *poof* everything works as expected with the linked pedal switch on. My experience from this suggests a relationship between HST response and the stall guard feature in the software controlling the HST.
Eric, this is the first feedback that seems to make sense and mirror my issues!! However, as I mentioned, I usually don't run the stall guard, and I usually don't run the linked pedal, as that is be best operating that I've found thus far. It is still quite noticeable though (the lag), even when those two are OFF, and after it is warmed up. But it still slips when just having it normal in gear (i.e. no stall guard, no linked pedal).
Eric, this is the first feedback that seems to make sense and mirror my issues!! However, as I mentioned, I usually don't run the stall guard, and I usually don't run the linked pedal, as that is be best operating that I've found thus far. It is still quite noticeable though (the lag), even when those two are OFF, and after it is warmed up. But it still slips when just having it normal in gear (i.e. no stall guard, no linked pedal).
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
From my uninformed conjecture, if I had to guess, differences in heat suggest a sticking electric over hydro valve is at fault. Maybe.
Give me a call, Jim.
ishiboo
Platinum Member
I test drove a new 5510 cab, and it had the same issue... they blamed it being cold (probably 35-40 then). There was a rather large lag when you hit the hydro pedal. The 4510 I drove had no such lag, but it was 65 degrees out that day.
Yes, this is what I am concerned about. When I test drove the 6010 (a different one than the one I bought) it was doing the same thing, but it was really cold, and there was lots of snow at that time. I, too, figured that A) it was just cold, and B) maybe it just needed to break in....
I am very, very concerned that they will not resolve this, and that this is just how they operate (the tractor that is)... I guarantee that I will not sit quietly though if that happens... I'm giving Kioti the benefit here and the opportunity to try to resolve this. What a tragedy that would be though with such an otherwise potentially fine tractor.. Not to mention the nearly 50k I've got invested in the entire package, add ons, and implements....
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
I wonder if oil type has something to do with it. Ask your dealer what hydro trans oil they are using.
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
As per our phone conversation. Diagnostic wise look into:
1) Hydro PSI check.
2) Can machine tooling stuck somewhere cause this?
3) Can the wrong type of hydro fluid cause the lag?
4) Can a malfunctioning HST sensitivity dial cause the lag?
5) Can whatever mechanism that protects the engine from stalling, if it is hanging open just a bit cause this problem?
6) Can a lying sensor or weak return spring or stuck solenoid or HST software glitch cause this?
I don't have access and I've never seen how robust Kioti's diagnostic software is, but consider that the tech needs time to work through this problem (especially if on a witch hunt trying to find machine tooling after deciding that all the sensors claim to function but clearly the response is failing to react as expected.
Also Joe, drive another NX HST to get a sense of how they react. I think my tractor reacts relatively quickly. There is a moment of dead space between forward and reverse, but as a tech, I figure that time is there so the transmission doesn't try to do two directions as once and exists when hydraulic pressure to go forward and hydraulic pressure to go backward is equal as demonstrated in the simple green animation below.
