Oh, poor me...poor me !!!

[JDgreen227]

Our local paper has a story in the business section today about how factory jobs are no longer a ticket to the middle class. The man profiled in the attachment below (sorry for poor quality) is quoted in the story as saying, despite his new job where is is paid $15.57 an hour as a supplemental employee at Caterpillar: "I depend on my parents to help me make ends meet..."

Hard to feel sorry for the guy when he is pictured sucking on a cigarette...around here they cost close to $6 a pack. Maybe he needs to get his priorities straight?

 

[CBW1999]

Umm...cigarettes are closer to $9.00 a pack around here.

I think the bigger problem with the younger generation is the attitude of "you need to pay me enough for my lifestyle needs" vs I will live the lifestyle my income will provide for.

I saw an article or interview (can't remember). someone complaining that whatever cut back or additional contribution to insurance they now had to make "significantly decreased my monthly discretionary funds". Last I knew, discretionary funds was surplus money in your budget after all other expenses were covered. So this whine ***** didn't have enough play money.........

 

[rockinmywaypa]

A lot of youngsters are disallusioned if they can't start out in a home as big as what took their parents 50 yrs to get to, this goes with all the entertainment accessories inside too. There are lots of what a person could call a starter home around but it would be too embarrassing for quite a few youngsters to think of letting their peers see them living in one. So they whine and form unions to get more for not working or go to occupy movements and try to get my sympathy which will never happen. This touched a nerve since earlier today there was an interview on a news channel with a young woman that was at one of the occupy gatherings claiming that our society isn't working to their benefit. If I could have a conversation with her I'd tell her to try working and see if that if that would work.

 

[JDgreen227]

Sad thing is that so many of today's workers have what is called an "Entitlement mentality" which is what rockinmywaypa describes as seeing in one of the occupy gatherings. Many of them want something for nothing and just don't realize that their parents worked for 35-45 years to get to where they are. HOWEVER, another sad thing is that for the current generation of workers there really are not the opportunities that were there for us 40 years ago. I walked in off the street with only a high school education and minimal skills and was hired on the spot at $3.35 an hour and full benefits. 31 years later I retired with a generous pension after moving up the ladder to a crew leader and making nearly $20 an hour. A good friend of mine describes the same situation at GM...walk in off the street with a HS education, put in your 30 years and get out with a pension. Makes me very grateful I had the opportunities I did.

 

[TripleR]

Sad thing is that so many of today's workers have what is called an "Entitlement mentality" which is what rockinmywaypa describes as seeing in one of the occupy gatherings. Many of them want something for nothing and just don't realize that their parents worked for 35-45 years to get to where they are. HOWEVER, another sad thing is that for the current generation of workers there really are not the opportunities that were there for us 40 years ago. I walked in off the street with only a high school education and minimal skills and was hired on the spot at $3.35 an hour and full benefits. 31 years later I retired with a generous pension after moving up the ladder to a crew leader and making nearly $20 an hour. A good friend of mine describes the same situation at GM...walk in off the street with a HS education, put in your 30 years and get out with a pension. Makes me very grateful I had the opportunities I did.

Agree completely, I had to go to college to get the job I wanted, but three of our four kids have degrees also, but will never see the pension plan and insurance my wife and I have. We were/are by no means wealthy, but our kids in all likelihood will not be able to retire at the age and with what we have. I really feel for the younger generations.

 

[300UGUY]

Sad thing is that so many of today's workers have what is called an "Entitlement mentality" which is what rockinmywaypa describes as seeing in one of the occupy gatherings. Many of them want something for nothing and just don't realize that their parents worked for 35-45 years to get to where they are. HOWEVER, another sad thing is that for the current generation of workers there really are not the opportunities that were there for us 40 years ago. I walked in off the street with only a high school education and minimal skills and was hired on the spot at $3.35 an hour and full benefits. 31 years later I retired with a generous pension after moving up the ladder to a crew leader and making nearly $20 an hour. A good friend of mine describes the same situation at GM...walk in off the street with a HS education, put in your 30 years and get out with a pension. Makes me very grateful I had the opportunities I did.

You start at GM now at $14, move up to $16, no pension, no medical after retirement, obviously no 30 and out retirement.

 

[buck12]

No one made the guy take a $15.57 job. If wants to make more he should acquire a set of skills that demand more money. There are plenty of jobs that pay more.

 

[Deere Dude]

The underlying issue is the belief that you decide on what you will spend on "bills" and then expect that a job will pay for it. What is a want vs a need? I strongly argue that, if most would calculate their budget based on needs, not wants- they would be able to live on much less.

You don't "need" your own apartment (no room mates) $750.00 (conservative estimate), $100.00 PLUS cell phone bill, $350.00 plus car payment (which also dictates insurance cost)......

X2

Everyone needs to be responsible for themselves and stop trying to scam the system. This would leave more help for the truly needy and everyone would benefit.
It seems many people have given up, to where they are satisfied and pursuing living off the government in one way or the other and not even trying pay their way anymore. They are just existing and are getting used to it, and won't give up the wants or the habits.

 

[texasjohn]

Yep, way I got it figured, if he works 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, no holidays, no vacation, no illness, then he makes $32760 annually. So, he's doing great...2012 poverty level for one person is $11,170.

Then the arithmetic...how much should we allow for things like
taxes
food
shelter
utilities (I dunno if you really need running water, electricity, or a phone) umm maybe some way to cook..and refrigerate
transportation (guess it's a car)
Car repairs, surely it's not new or never breaks, maybe a few tools to do own simple maintenance
car insurance, driver's license, car license
clothes
a few supplies like soap for dishes, toilet paper since sears catalogs no longer free.
medical insurance, including prescription drugs, and all co pays and out of pocket expenses...he's gotta stay healthy enough to work, or we reduce his income
discretionary income...what's left over for entertainment, smokes, other vices like wine, women and song.
do we assume he's single, or is he trying to support a wife and/or kid?? Something in article about girlfriend and child support.
I'm sure I've forgotten a few things, life in the US has a way of sending extra expenses our way
Maybe he should have a savings account and put money away for retirement?
Maybe he should also get extra education/training to improve his skills? Wonder what that will cost?

'scuse me, gotta run...maybe someone can fill in the realistic $$ amounts and assumptions on how they are arrived at...I'll check back later to see how the budget is coming along.

Am wondering how long he'll have to work to get into the lower middle class...using this definition from wikipedia


The lower middle class... these are people in technical and lower-level management positions who work for those in the upper middle class as lower managers, craftspeople, and the like. They enjoy a reasonably comfortable standard of living, although it is constantly threatened by taxes and inflation. Generally, they have a Bachelor's and sometimes Master's college degree.
唯rian K. William, Stacy C. Sawyer and Carl M. Wahlstrom, Marriages, Families & Intimate Relationships, 2006 (Adapted from Dennis Gilbert 1997; and Joseph Kahl 1993)[4]

 

[smstonypoint]

Yep, way I got it figured, if he works 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, no holidays, no vacation, no illness, then he makes $32760 annually. So, he's doing great...2012 poverty level for one person is $11,170.

<snip>

'scuse me, gotta run...maybe someone can fill in the realistic $$ amounts and assumptions on how they are arrived at...I'll check back later to see how the budget is coming along.

The BLS reports average expenditures from the Consumer Expenditure Survey for various demographic groups at Consumer Expenditure Survey. See Table 3 -- http://www.bls.gov/cex/2011/Standard/age.pdf

Steve

 

[Combustix]

Maybe if mommy and daddy didn't pamper these kids with everything they ever wanted while growing up they would realize they really did need to work. The hs were my nephew graduated had a parking lot full of older cars (teacher parking). And a lot filled with BMW Mercedes Lexus and the like all late models. To me that is a telling sign of whining to come

 

[texasjohn]

Wonderful start...excellent list of income/expenses....and, "reference person is 39....and the subject fellow is 38, close enough for our purposes.

Now, reference person makes $77K...oops...a tad more than our subject fellow seeking to enter the lower middle class.

So, what would folks cut out of that expense list while meeting the criticisms/demands leveled at this working fellow...no smoking, full insurance coverage (want to be responsible of course), work at whatever pay job is available (he's doing this), accept no support from family, state or federal govt., mental and physical aptitudes unknown but we can assume sufficient to complete high school and proceed to college, so need to spend time and $ (at age 38) to expand sills/education, a budget based on "needs, not wants", no wants, no (bad/expensive) habits, demonstrate extreme and complete responsibility to self and surrounding society.

Surely, some one of the posters who have a complete idea about how this fellow should live his life according to their values can develop a budget for him which demonstrates these values. Shouldn't be hard, he's way above the poverty level and all that needs to be done is to thoughtfully cut out the fat from the budget that the government reports many are living within. Hmmmm....wonder if there should be a line item for "credit"...even if there is a $0.0 in it??

I'd like someone to propose the budget and see if we all agree it's responsible and livable and represents the "proper" values.

 

[El Wood]

Ponder this idea... I consider myself a "working stiff" who puts in 50 plus hours a week. I have contact with various members of society on a daily basis. In the same day I may deal with a wealthy individual living in a 10,000 sq foot house and then drive to a trailer park and deal with someone who doesn't work.

One thing I noticed is that the guy in the big house is never usually home. He's not because he gets up early every day and works late into the night every night. The guy in the trailer is always home or down at the neighbors hanging out. He's watching his favorite television show, wears whatever he wants everyday and spends time with family and friends whenever he wishes.

What's the difference between the two?? A bunch of "stuff."

I was fortunate enough to travel to Italy a few years ago with my wife. I was up early the first day at 6am ready to go. What I found out is nothing opens there till about 9 (ish). Then around 1pm, everything closes for about an hour for lunch. We walked into a restaurant at 5pm for dinner and found the place deserted. We found that dinner starts around 8 or 9 and lasts a few hours or late into the night. I also noticed we were the only two person table. Most tables had large families and I could see this was family time. By the time we traveled home, I had slipped right into their routine and found myself thinking, why do we work so much?

So why work so hard? What does it really get you other the a bunch of stuff or a title at work I don't care about. I see older guys retire in 25 or 30 years at my place and walk out the door. They brag about never taking a day off or calling in sick. Within a few weeks, no one remembers them. No one remembers how hard they worked.

So, maybe this guy who doesn't want to work has it all figured out and us "working stiffs" who fall in line everyday for the rat race are a bunch of fools. Just a thought.

 

[buck12]

When my wife and got married 17 years ago I made less than $15.57 an hour and she had a part time minimum wage job actually two while she was a full time student. We made it with no help from our parents. We were raised to stand on our own feet. Looking back I am not sure how we paid the bills but we were never late on a single bill. My wife and I decided we wanted a better standard of living and we have both earned masters degrees while working. While America has its flaws this is the still the land of opportunity for those willing to work for it. The days of achieving middle class status with no skills are gone IMHO. There all sorts of training opportunities available to improve one's skills if an individual really wants to earn more.

 

[buck12]

So, maybe this guy who doesn't want to work has it all figured out and us "working stiffs" who fall in line everyday for the rat face are a bunch of fools. Just a thought.

Who cares how this guy lives unless he is married to one of my daughters and expects me to pay his bills.

 

[CBW1999]

Who cares how this guy lives unless he is married to one of my daughters and expects me to pay his bills.

- Because he is the type of guy who while waiting for "his" heating fuel assistance and food shelf allotment, will stand outside the community action office smoking a cigarette and talking/texting on his cell phone.

At any given time during heating season, I can drive by our county community action and see lots of people doing this. The worst part (imho) is that based on a simple 1 pack a day smoking habit, these people are spending the same amount of money (per month) they demand to get in assistance. The program itself essentially will cover the same amount as 3 months of cigarettes.

Cell phones... I can see a need for communication but, the more expensive phone with all the doodads and texting? probably could save some more money changing to a simple phone/plan.

The bottom line, our tax dollars go to these programs to subsidize their lifestyle.

 

[JDgreen227]

Ponder this idea... I consider myself a "working stiff" who puts in 50 plus hours a week. I have contact with various members of society on a daily basis. In the same day I may deal with a wealthy individual living in a 10,000 sq foot house and then drive to a trailer park and deal with someone who doesn't work.

One thing I noticed is that the guy in the big house is never usually home. He's not because he gets up early every day and works late into the night every night. The guy in the trailer is always home or down at the neighbors hanging out. He's watching his favorite television show, wears whatever he wants everyday and spends time with family and friends whenever he wishes.

What's the difference between the two?? A bunch of "stuff."

I was fortunate enough to travel to Italy a few years ago with my wife. I was up early the first day at 6am ready to go. What I found out is nothing opens there till about 9 (ish). Then around 1pm, everything closes for about an hour for lunch. We walked into a restaurant at 5pm for dinner and found the place deserted. We found that dinner starts around 8 or 9 and lasts a few hours or late into the night. I also noticed we were the only two person table. Most tables had large families and I could see this was family time. By the time we traveled home, I had slipped right into their routine and found myself thinking, why do we work so much?

So why work so hard? What does it really get you other the a bunch of stuff or a title at work I don't care about. I see older guys retire in 25 or 30 years at my place and walk out the door. They brag about never taking a day off or calling in sick. Within a few weeks, no one remembers them. No one remembers how hard they worked.

So, maybe this guy who doesn't want to work has it all figured out and us "working stiffs" who fall in line everyday for the rat race are a bunch of fools. Just a thought.

Excellent post and I appreciate your input and observations...when you say you had slipped into their routine do you mean you changed your work habits too? Going to tell you guys something, I have two cousins whose ages are within a few years and they guy cousin began working back in high school at various jobs then when he graduated he began working for his dad's company, just the two of them, working six days a week and today my cousin is a multi-millionaire with a huge business that employs hundreds of people and he lives in a 5000 square foot mansion and owns vacation homes. I don't begrudge him his success because he worked for everything he has. About a mile down the road from him is my girl cousin who lives in the 110 year old run down farmhouse she inherited from her parents, she has just muddled along working as little as possible to get by, two years ago she was fired from her first real decent job working for the city, have to be pretty d*** worthless to get fired from a government job. The contrast between my cousins is startling and the difference between them is because the guy wasn't afraid to give a day's work for a day's pay.

Sad thing is though, in today's economic climate and especially in Michigan, many twenty-somethings are going to have a really hard time getting a step up the ladder to financial security...wife and I both get a good pension and have medical benefits, and even though our pensions are now taxed by the state and our medical care premiums doubled to an additional $1800 per year we still have a pension and medical care benefits...plus we can probably get something out of Social Security in a year or two. Odds are the young person starting work out of his schooling today isn't going to see much of a pension or SS.

 

[300UGUY]

Ponder this idea... I consider myself a "working stiff" who puts in 50 plus hours a week. I have contact with various members of society on a daily basis. In the same day I may deal with a wealthy individual living in a 10,000 sq foot house and then drive to a trailer park and deal with someone who doesn't work.

One thing I noticed is that the guy in the big house is never usually home. He's not because he gets up early every day and works late into the night every night. The guy in the trailer is always home or down at the neighbors hanging out. He's watching his favorite television show, wears whatever he wants everyday and spends time with family and friends whenever he wishes.

What's the difference between the two?? A bunch of "stuff."

I was fortunate enough to travel to Italy a few years ago with my wife. I was up early the first day at 6am ready to go. What I found out is nothing opens there till about 9 (ish). Then around 1pm, everything closes for about an hour for lunch. We walked into a restaurant at 5pm for dinner and found the place deserted. We found that dinner starts around 8 or 9 and lasts a few hours or late into the night. I also noticed we were the only two person table. Most tables had large families and I could see this was family time. By the time we traveled home, I had slipped right into their routine and found myself thinking, why do we work so much?

So why work so hard? What does it really get you other the a bunch of stuff or a title at work I don't care about. I see older guys retire in 25 or 30 years at my place and walk out the door. They brag about never taking a day off or calling in sick. Within a few weeks, no one remembers them. No one remembers how hard they worked.

So, maybe this guy who doesn't want to work has it all figured out and us "working stiffs" who fall in line everyday for the rat race are a bunch of fools. Just a thought.

I think a lot of folks have just given up. The US is kinda like a Hollywood star system now, if you are exceptional, or lucky and have family connections, you succeed, get promoted, get all the perks. If you aren't in the top 5% of whatever group you are in, you are a loser. If you are exceptional, you get ahead. If you are not, you are not going to get much. There isn't much space for a middle class anymore.