Oil change frequency with Synthetic oil

[Spiros]

I have a buddy who worked for Schlumberger Oil exploration back in the late 70's and early 80's. He told me they would never consider using dino oil in any of their machines. They ran all synthetic and changed filters religiously just topping the equipment off after each filter change. I use Rotella T 15/40 in all of my diesel equipment and change every 5000 miles for vehicles and every season for tractors and such.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I don't get how some people think. If you buy synthetic for say 50% more $ and are able to go 50% longer between oil changes, does that not work out to the same thing money wise? Plus then you've saved the labor of doing the oil change. Even if you do the oil change yourself there is still a cost to it. I'd far rather be enjoying doing something with my equipment than doing an oil change that I can safely postpone.

 

[DieselBound]

Issue with oil is the loss of viscosity and additives breakdown. FILTERS take care of the "dirty."

Tier IV engines produce less soot AND the newer oils also tend to have less ash(?). All adds up to longer lasting oil.

I wouldn't worry all that much about moisture in engines as it evaporates very quickly. Water won't readily displace oil from the surfaces.

My cars' oil is changed every 10k miles: they're VW TDIs (ALHs). My average MPH is right around 40mph, so 10,000 miles / 40 miles per hour is roughly 250 hours. Oil changes in tractors at 200 hrs to 300 hrs is, therefore, pretty much in-line with what I'm seeing in my cars.

 

[Turbys_1700]

For the last 20 years or so I've utilized GM's oil change minder on two Cadillac's and one Buick. Typical driving around here puts them in the 6K range for changes. That's what I went by and so far I've traded those cars in at around 225K miles with no engine related issues. On my truck I change it every year even though it is not driven that much. Just do it when I get a new tag. My little Century Buick gets 6K mile changes on dino.

My WM50 has a 600 hour change interval per the owners manual. I performed the 50 hour service myself. According to the book it needs it's next service at 650 hours. With the catalytic converter and Tier 4 engine that engine produces zero smoke. I plan on servicing it myself yearly even though I realize that in all likely hood I am wasting oil. Just can't wrap my head around not servicing any vehicle at least once a year.

 

[LouNY]

OK, I change my oil at less then manufactures recommendations now days.
It wasn't to many years ago that trucks and cars were at 3000 mile intervals and tractors 100 hours.
Now they all increased to up to 10,000 miles and 600 hr.
I switched to synthetics in the mid 70's for the cold weather starting ability and the quicker oil circulation in sub zero temps.
Over the years I've had a couple of no oil pressure or lack of oil from oil pump drive shafts breaking, knocking oil filters off, oil pan leaks,
and seeing minimal damage to those engines, has convinced me of the benefits of synthetics.
My tractors and pickup are on Rotella T6, the pickup gets a change between 5-7000 miles depending what I have done and have
coming up. The tractors get a change every fall so as to have fresh oil for the winter regardless of the # of hours. I see people thinking that
they can tell from the color how clean it is, sorry no way. Mechanical injection diesels always get dirty looking quickly, the early electronic common rails
stayed much cleaner looking. But now we are back to dirty oil because of the emission equipment, egr makes the oil dirty looking, pdf's having to be regenerated
requiring excess fuel to dumped in through the engine to try and burn them clean, my pickups manual comments on the oil getting diluted with diesel from the excess
fuel injection until the oil temp gets high enough to cook it out. So in conclusion if you have a tier 4 tractor your oil is going to get fuel dilution in the oil
and if you are not putting long duration work days on it, hows that going to get cooked out.
So enjoy and change your oils as you wish, mine will get done annually or more often, certainly not less and it will be synthetic.

 

[JimRB]

Someone asked "Why do oil analysis if you are changing your oil every 200 hours?" People do oil analysis even if they are changing the oil frequently to see if anything weird is happening like premature bearing wear or leaking injectors. If you do that anaylsis on your new tractor while it is still under warranty and you find an issue, you could save thousands or tens of thousand of repair bills. Some people also do anaylsis on hydraulic fluids. The folks I know who run rock drilling rigs send their oil off all the time. Dead rigs does not make them money. My truck only uses 3 gallons of oil so it is no big deal to drain 3 gallons and swap the filter. Except the county recycling center is no longer taking oil to recycle. Wah. But my truck has enough miles that common knowledge says injectors start to get weird at the mileage I have so I should do an oil analysis now to make sure they are not leaking and causing oil problems.

Go to the Blackstone website for some interesting articles on oil analysis. Blackstone Labs The newsletters have quizes based on real customer samples that are fun to take. Blackstone Labs

 

[mike69440]

OK, I change my oil at less then manufactures recommendations now days.
It wasn't to many years ago that trucks and cars were at 3000 mile intervals and tractors 100 hours.
Now they all increased to up to 10,000 miles and 600 hr.
I switched to synthetics in the mid 70's for the cold weather starting ability and the quicker oil circulation in sub zero temps.
Over the years I've had a couple of no oil pressure or lack of oil from oil pump drive shafts breaking, knocking oil filters off, oil pan leaks,
and seeing minimal damage to those engines, has convinced me of the benefits of synthetics.
My tractors and pickup are on Rotella T6, the pickup gets a change between 5-7000 miles depending what I have done and have
coming up. The tractors get a change every fall so as to have fresh oil for the winter regardless of the # of hours. I see people thinking that
they can tell from the color how clean it is, sorry no way. Mechanical injection diesels always get dirty looking quickly, the early electronic common rails
stayed much cleaner looking. But now we are back to dirty oil because of the emission equipment, egr makes the oil dirty looking, pdf's having to be regenerated
requiring excess fuel to dumped in through the engine to try and burn them clean, my pickups manual comments on the oil getting diluted with diesel from the excess
fuel injection until the oil temp gets high enough to cook it out. So in conclusion if you have a tier 4 tractor your oil is going to get fuel dilution in the oil
and if you are not putting long duration work days on it, hows that going to get cooked out.
So enjoy and change your oils as you wish, mine will get done annually or more often, certainly not less and it will be synthetic.

Forgetting to change oil in your tractors and trucks, seldom is that a problem with synthetics, but check & change your generator's engine oil for dilution. People get are religious zealots about oil changes on vehicles, but forget about the other stuff till the lights are out or grandma needs to keep the medical equipment going.

 

[fried1765]

I can tell you this, I do annual Blackstone used oil tests on my fathers 1999 7.3L Powerstroke that he uses Amsoil oil and the Ae filters on. I sent one in just a couple months ago, he is at 3 years and 12K miles and the Blackstone analysis came back saying that we are good to go. The truck sits in a garage that is heated at 40F all winter, and he uses the truck occasionally (retired) but not daily. Next year, year 4, we will not pull a sample. Instead I will order him more Amsoil oil/filter and do a change out, then go back to annual monitoring to watch for any unusual changes. Based on time, he should be at 4 oil changes in this 4 year time, instead he runs a single change out over the entire 4 years at a cost of about $100, and I don't have to change his oil or dispose of it... Instead I use a used oil collection pump and pull oil in about 30 seconds and mail it off. It works. I don't think I would do it blindly, running an annual test lets you see anything changing so that you can get in front of it. He has 180,000 miles on the truck at this point and has been using Amsoil since the truck had about 30K miles on it.

The oil is changed at "a cost of about $100"....every 4 years
And ..... the additional cost of how many oil analysis over 4 years is ....????
Blackstone sells their oil analysis kits for $28 each. Over 4 years, testing for each year would total $112, plus the $100 cost for the oil change at the end of 4 years.

 

[LouNY]

Forgetting to change oil in your tractors and trucks, seldom is that a problem with synthetics, but check & change your generator's engine oil for dilution. People get are religious zealots about oil changes on vehicles, but forget about the other stuff till the lights are out or grandma needs to keep the medical equipment going.

True, I should have mentioned that lawn equipment is done when it's put away for the winter, sander is done in the spring. Oil changes are done when seasonal equipment is put away for the unused seasons that way any contaminants or pH changes or dilution is removed before it sits for months, my generator is pto so gearbox is when I happen to think about it or it looks cloudy in the sight glass.

 

[fried1765]

I have a $53,315 MSRP new Ram Rebel with the Hemi 5.7L that is at 7,600 miles now with 17% oil life remaining. I have owned it since new (3-20-2017) and not had to do an oil change yet. I'll be right around 10K miles when it is due, and almost all of those miles is towing an 8K lb trailer. I bought the truck only as a toy hauler, I don't daily drive it. My suspicion is that these manufactures are acknowledging that todays oil is far superior to what was once on the market. I wouldn't see it being different in our tractors, but with my baby tractor holding less than a gallon, I'll likely change oil and filter every year regardless of hours. A guy I work with has a 16 year Kubota M series that he only puts around 50 hours a year on, he's changed the engine oil/filter 2 times so far... He is going way longer than I would because he discounts time completely and just looks at hours. He says he changes the oil "early" based on his use hours :laughing:

I have two old Fords!
A 47 year old gas industrial 3400 TLB with 1850 hours, and a 28 year old 1920 FEL 32HP Shibaura with 1058 hours.
Both are in new looking condition (restored).
I put less than 10 hours per year on each.
I change tractor oil (Rotella-T) every two or three years.
I am 77 years old, and not at all concerned about my engine oil schedules.
I change my 2010 Corolla oil (synthetic) at 5000 miles.
I have used Rotella-T 15W-40 in my 1996 gas E-320, changed every 5,000 miles, or less, for it's entire life (currently..21 years, and 108,000 miles). A fine machine! Runs like a Swiss watch!
I have a nearly pristine Suburban K-2500 4x4 (454 V-8) with 135,000 miles. It is currently a 700 mile (or less) per year tow vehicle, and I change oil (Quaker State) every other season. I bought it used, 10 years ago, with 100,000 miles. An absolute brute, but of course, has never seen a gas station it wanted to pass.

 

[newbury]

<snip> I plan on servicing it myself yearly even though I realize that in all likely hood I am wasting oil. Just can't wrap my head around not servicing any vehicle at least once a year.

Servicing and changing the oil can be 2 different things. You need to do Planned Maintenance routinely depending on the equipment. I try to grease every 8 to 10 hours of run time on my tractors. Do a walk around before I start. Passenger vehicle tires now need to be replaced about every 7 years for safety, even if they have plenty of tread. But the manual produced in 1994 for old time Dino oil does not reflect present day reality so I change my oil based on UOA when needed, not when the manual says to.

The oil is changed at "a cost of about $100"....every 4 years
And ..... the additional cost of how many oil analysis over 4 years is ....????
Blackstone sells their oil analysis kits for $28 each. Over 4 years, testing for each year would total $112, plus the $100 cost for the oil change at the end of 4 years.

Or get 1 UOA at 3 years, 11 months and see if it needs to be changed. You might be able to go 12 years.
It's your money, you can choose how to spend it.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Many manufacturers specify a number of hours or a time limit (typically one year). It's a tossup which one I'll hit first next year.

 

[jdom84]

I get a kick out of reading these threads. Everyone explaining why there way is best :thumbsup:

I worked at a family owned oil change shop many years ago and I've seen some interesting things come through the door. Even had a retired guy come in and get his oil changed every month, regardless of miles on the vehicle which was usually less than 500 miles per change. You couldn't convince him otherwise and he was willing to pay the price so why would we argue with him. He said its the only way to keep these non-leaded gasoline things running!

With cars or tractors, how can you trust anything anyone says? They don't have any vested interest in your machine and if you take someone's advice and it goes horribly wrong, who is to blame? The oil change shops just want your business, the oil companies want you to buy more oil.... etc... etc.... Frantz oil filter, endless supply of clean oil, just change your toilet paper! :laughing:

Can you trust the manufacturer? Out of anyone, they should be the ones to trust right? They made the machine and they have a vested interest in it lasting for you (bad publicity is bad for business). They have no vested interest in the oil company's right? However, they do have vested interest in consumables and dealer services.

But then you see things like Porsche and their 20k mile oil change? Or other manufactures with lifetime sealed transmissions that end up failing after 100k miles. Then there is the 15k non-synthetic oil change
intervals on the 6.7l Cummins diesel :shocked: but yet the dealer told me when pushing FCA's $2000 lifetime lube package, it was every 5k?? The dealer is representing the manufacture, they should know the truth right? But wait... that nasty dirty black diesel oil can go 15k miles? how can that be... oil experts say, oil and additives turn dark with heat cycles and over time collect non-engine wearing soot which is 1 micron in size and unable to be captured by the filter... unless you have something like the Frantz oil filter kit, that thing captures everything up to 1/2 micron, but wait... AMSoil says the additives are 1 micron in size and a filter anything less than 2 microns will remove them from the oil.... hmmm. Does anyone speak the truth?

So if you can't trust those guys, you have to be a chemist to actually know what goes on with your oil, or do you trust the independent engine oil analysis. Can you trust them? They are in it for your hard earned buck too and they are competing with the oil/lube industry and their recommended change intervals. What if you had your first oil analysis done and it indicated to change the oil at manufactures recommended intervals, would you use them again? Maybe you should get one done on day 1 and then again at day X when you think your oil is needing a change and compare the two.
Don't get me wrong, not saying these labs are crooks, I actually do trust a local lab and we use them on our large mining equipment. Because who wants to change out gallons of oil every week?

There is a local auto dealer here that offers the first owner a lifetime warranty on a purchase from them, as long as you bring it to them for service, oh and one more stipulations.... You must have it serviced by them every 3k miles or 3 months even though manufacture recommends longer intervals and must use synthetic. At a minimum you are going to be paying $500 a year but most people put many more miles on their vehicles than the minimum.

Just saying... who can you trust?

 

[newbury]

And then there is New Mobil 1™ Annual Protection Oil | Mobil™ Motor Oils

Good for 1 year or 20,000 miles.

 

[jdom84]

I'm still confused about the whole time thing... Oil must go rancid like cooking oil ... or does it?? :confused3: (joking) cant trust anything you read on that because everyone say contradicting things.

I understand water ingress, chemical contamination and oxidation... but come on... Here in the frozen north, some vehicles will go 6 months with out being touched

 

[MESSMAKER]

I think oil change intervals are one of the most controversial parts of maintenance. There are people who still change their oil every 3000 miles even though it is not due per the mfg. info. Oil is good until it is contaminated. Nothing magical happens at 3000 miles that makes it occur. You really only have two good choices. Follow the mfg. guidelines or get it analyzed. Anything else is really just a guess. "I changed my oil every 3000 miles and have never had a engine failure" means little more than someone who never changes oil and has never lost an engine. One persons good or bad luck does not make a very reliable statistic.

 

[Deere Dude]

. "I changed my oil every 3000 miles and have never had a engine failure" means little more than someone who never changes oil and has never lost an engine. One persons good or bad luck does not make a very reliable statistic.

Had one man tell me he never greased his front end on his 1980? station wagon and it has over 150k miles on it. And it still runs like a top.