Oil filter analysis

Roy · Aug 13, 2000

A link which was posted it on another forum, that I found interesting. A gentleman decided to do his own research on oil filters. He dismantled and studied many different filters. He was pretty extensive in his analysis, for a hobbyist. http://members.xoom.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html

Bird · Aug 13, 2000

Roy, I read all that a long time ago. The guy may be right or he may not be. Just remember that, like you said, he's a hobbyist, not an engineer, and since I don't know him, don't know his motivation for doing what he's done, don't know his background or expertise, etc., I guess I tend to be a little suspicious./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird

Roy · Aug 13, 2000

We should suspicious (he may of been fired by Fram, we don't know). But ,I do admire the degree he went to. I myself have been using mainly Fram's for 15 years without problems. That was based on a study someone did (Popular Mechanics maybe, use to read it often) back then.

Does anyone know who supplies Kubota, JD or NH filters? Doubt if any of those manufactures would risk placing a known inferior filter initially in their equipment for the critical break-in period. They would have to pay a high penalty with engine warranty repairs.

Anonymous Poster · Aug 13, 2000

I also have been to that page and want to point out that the Sept. 2000 issue of RIDER magazine conducted the same type of test and the results are remarkably similar. WIX, NAPA GOLD, PUROLATOR, and A.C. DELCO all had positive writeups and the FRAM had its poor construction quality singled out. Just like the first report they agree that the micron filtering ability and the bypass valve are the most important elements and that the OEM filters weren't necessarily better.

Rowski · Aug 13, 2000

Bird,

When this guy did this study he basically compared "logical" stuff. Like the length of the cartidge, shell thickness, drain back valves, how many pleats in the filter, gasket type, etc. He said that he could not due the SAE test. I do agree that he can be right and wrong. I have taken a filter (fram and wix) both with the same application. And basically cut them open and compared the two. There was a visual differance between the two. The filtration might be the same I don't know. I did this before I read this guy's filter study. In the auto industry there is a law that allows one to use aftermarket filter (that meet OEM standards) and not void the warranty. I have the name of the act or law at work. I will bring it home. I'm wondering if the tractor industy is the same. I am not an engineer but I usually look at the logical stuff first. If that does not help then I try to find more of an engineered answer.

I'm curious who made him stop his "study"??

Derek.

Bird · Aug 13, 2000

Yep, much of what the guy did sounds "logical" and I, too, usually try to go by that standard unless I have evidence to the contrary. I grew up with a dad who owned a Texaco service station, then a Mobil service station, AND an auto parts store, so at one time or another I've sold AND used Wix, Purolator, Fram, and AC filters (and some other brands) and quite honestly, I have no idea whether one's actually "better" than the other (the older I get and the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif). I'm still using Frams in my car and pickup, and I even used Frams on my B7100, but now I'm buying genuine Kubota filters for the B2710 (high priced suckers, too) because I don't know whether others would be just as good (and I haven't seen a cross reference chart yet). Fortunately, I've never had a problem that could be related to filters or lubricants, but who knows when I might. I'm inclined to wonder whether deciding which filter is best might be like trying to decide which tractor brand is best. At any rate, I find it interesting to read of the different opinions, tests, studies, etc. and I don't have any particular brand loyalty.

Bird

Anonymous Poster · Aug 13, 2000

It seems he missed the most logical thing to compare. An oil filter is supposed to filter oil so that is what should be compared. All he did was compare the construction of the filter which tells you nothing about what the filter is supposed to do. It is unfortunate that he has spent so much time and money without finding out how well the filters actually work.

Andy

Rowski · Aug 13, 2000

Bird,

I have nothing against fram or the others that are a QUALITY filter. I used what I can get for the price because of our oil change pricing. Bosh for imports and NAPA (wix) for domestic. I though about using the wix for the NH. Had a good listing and a good OEM# crossover. But the OEM oil filter was $3 cheaper but the OEM hydraulic filter was $5 more /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif. You can't win!

Derek

Edited by Rowski on 8/13/00 10:08 PM.

Rowski · Aug 13, 2000

Andy,

I agree with you. But where I am with the temp differences (-40ish to 90ish). Things like gasket construction make a difference. Also the thickness of the shell makes a difference due to the amount of salt /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif they use in the winter. I have seen oil filter shells rust out in six months. Filtering is important but what holds everything together is also important. He did also noted if the filters had a antidrain back valve which is important. Does anybody know where one can see actual filtration results?

Derek

JRP · Aug 14, 2001

As a professional mechanic I analized every fuel filter I could. Just cut open the pleated paper with a knife and unfolded it. Amazing the junk that plugs them up. I guess you could do the same to your old oil filter using a hack saw or can opener?
Tin snips?

I think I'll try it when I do the 50 hr service on my M6800.

GlueGuy · Aug 14, 2001

Tin snips would be a better choice than a hack saw. After whaling on a filter with a hack saw, it would be hard to discern what particles came from where. Best choice I've seen is to use a large-diameter pipe cutter. Just chuck the filter into the cutter, spin it around a few times, and voila!

There are also labs that will do oil analysis. In airplanes this is common practice to try and catch little problems before they become big problems.

The GlueGuy

Anonymous Poster · Aug 14, 2001

Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a manufacturer can make a warranty conditional on the use of a specific brand of a lubricant and/or filter only if those products are provided free of charge....

gordon · Aug 14, 2001

The anti drainback can be a good feature depending on how the filter is mounted. Another thing that comes to mind is if the filter has the ability to bypass and if so at what psi.

Filters are alot more complex in this day and age than the 8a or the 1515.

I think and this is "my own opinion" so take it for what it's worth but Wix makes Kubotas filters. Wonder makes their oil? My guess for the day./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Gordon

bgott · Aug 15, 2001

Hot rod catalogs usually have a listing for a cutter designed to open oil filters. A lot of racers open their oil filters every run to see how much bearing metal is in the oil.

GlueGuy · Aug 15, 2001

I also get a newsletter called Light Airplane Maintenance. They have frequently pointed to suppliers for filter cutting tools. They are relatively pricey for the simpleness of operation, somewhere around $100. They are the ones that mentioned just using a large diameter pipe cutter.

The GlueGuy

Doublezero · Aug 20, 2001

Hi Folks,

My John Deere 790 is just over 2 months old and I did the 50 hour oil change this past weekend. I went to the local JD Dealer and got the recommended oil and filter. The replacement filter has a JD logo on the side but it's a good 1/4 to 1/2 inch smaller in diameter than the filter that came on the new tractor. The replacement filter is black and the original is green {appears to be painted when the engine was painted} so no logo. I looked in the opening of both filters and they appeared the same with no anti drain back valve {that was obvious to me} in either. In fact the only obvious physical difference is the diameter. The rubber gasket and threads matched, so I installed the new filter with no problems or leaks.

The point here is that I'm comfortable with the replacement filter since it has the Deere logo on it, but I'll have to admit that if I had purchased an aftermarket filter and noticed the difference in diameter, I would probably have been most uncomfortable.

I spent just under $15 for the oil and filter and have enough oil left that I'll have to buy one less quart next change {which I think will be at 250 hours}.

This isn't meant to be any sophisticated "oil filter analysis", but just a little input to share with other novices {like me} that might be overwhelmed by some of the knowledge needed to maintain these complicated little machines.

Larry

Anonymous Poster · Aug 22, 2001

There was a time when Fram was one of the best, if not the best, filters you could buy. This is not that time.

During the 70s and 80s Fram was the major target of counterfeiters; some were filled with crushed newspapers for filtering media.

Today's Fram filters need no counterfeiting to tarnish their corporate image. Rip one open and you'll find half the filtering media and lousy pressure relief and anti-drainback valves, compared to other filters.

How important is this? It hasn't been that long ago that engines didn't even have oil filters. Six cylinder Chevy engines in the 60's offered an oil filter as an option. VW beetles used a little wire screen. Pratt and Whitney used a rolled-up wire mesh which if you saw it lying on a bench by itself, you'd never guess it was a filter or could filter anything. However, these engines didn't last anywhere near as long as today's engines do, and probably some of that longevity is attributable to higher quality oil and oil filters. So I *sure* don't want to take a step backwards (and that, to me, is what Fram represents) and use a substandar filter when a good one is available at the same price.

BTW, I work for the parent corporation of Fram and could get an employee discount on Fram. I buy Purolator, Baldwin, Wix, NAPA, or Fleetguard.

Doublezero · Aug 26, 2001

cp1969,

Since you are an "insider" your post makes me worry. If you know the answer, please tell me that buying filters with the JD logo is the smart thing to do.

Thanks!

Larry

Anonymous Poster · Aug 31, 2001

Sorry to have taken so long to get back.

At least during the warranty period, you can't go wrong with using the filter sold by your tractor/car/truck/whatever manufacturer. By putting their logo on it, they're saying it meets whatever requirements their engineers have designated.

It's some (not all) of the aftermarket filters that are of questionable quality. I can see no good reason to use substandard filters when good ones are available for the same price, and IMHO a few of the "good" ones are Purolator(also makes Motorcraft), Wix, Champion, Fleetguard, Baldwin, Donaldson and NAPA(made by Wix, I believe). You can still get a bad filter even from a good manufacturer. What separates the good ones from the rest is if they'll step up to the plate and make good when their filters fail. I can personally attest that Fleetguard and Donaldson will do this, to the tune of *thousands* of dollars worth of engine repairs when their air filters failed.

That's another point...IMHO, people worry far too much about their oil filters and not enough about their air filters. I've never lost an engine to a bad oil filter, even given the quality of some of the junk I've used. But I HAVE lost engines to bad air filters....twice.

heehaw · Sep 4, 2001

it seems like i read somewhere that Baldwin makes the filters for amsoil?? but i have never seen that brand, is it a locality thing, only sold in some areas??
heehaw