Ok, lets spend some more money. Need to upgrade mig.

[user.69169]

Know a fellow got 1 dem 3 in 1 machining centers, you know, not quite lathe/ almost mill/ drills holes things. Comes up sorta short on everything cause dey compromized, but like you say, it 2020. almost 2021, and gotta keep United Parcel Smashers rolling cause dey got good site for de dogs dey deliver to every day. UPS Dogs

 

[the old grind]

Those tiny 'machining centers' are like toys and more gimmicky than broadly useful. Fine for modelers etc, but not all that for tractor parts. Like on-road off-road motorbikes, they do more than one thing ok but not all particularly well.

I suggest that if a multi-process welder doesn't do all ops well, it wasn't the right welder to buy in the first place.

btw, those extra amps I paid for mean better duty cycles. My '170 amp' MIG welder will run at 140a or so w/20% duty cycle. My '250 amp' MIG will run at 160a with 100% duty cycle.

 

[user.69169]

Duty cycle nuttin but inturdnet fad like bunch of other marketing. 15 years back Lincoln & ITW fake Blue was toe to toe chewin moustaches peddlin 110 volt MIG. Got to point dey was sawin machines apart to show mine better n yours. Blue proud dey used plastic shims in der windings and Lincoln only use cardboard.

I yet to meet a man who hits duty cycle and machine kicks off thermal. Maybe can do it building bridge girders but not likely in home shop world. Robot can but not a man. Guys who work in 8 foot square cell wid desk sure get worked up bout de duty cycle tho.

Higher amps good thing, ya can always turn machine down, specially if you know trick or 2. Ain't gonna crank machine past top end tho.

 

[the old grind]

... 15 years back Lincoln & ITW fake Blue was toe to toe chewin moustaches peddlin 110 volt MIG. Got to point dey was sawin machines apart to show mine better n yours. Blue proud dey used plastic shims in der windings and Lincoln only use cardboard.

I yet to meet a man who hits duty cycle and machine kicks off thermal. (I do a lot with the hft 170)

Higher amps good thing .. Ain't gonna crank machine past top end tho.

"To be sure!" :thumbsup: btw, 110v welders ... :laughing: We have tractors to bring a job closer to 220v service.

 

[user.69169]

"To be sure!" :thumbsup: btw, 110v welders ... :laughing: We have tractors to bring a job closer to 220v service.

Put decent cooling fan in Horrible Fright machine. Dey well known fer having cheaped on ventilation.

I got REAL MILLER MM-200 born back before ITW, Miller put thermostat on fan cause dey figured out many machines in Bondo World got full of dust from fan running all day. Did some kind of study wid recording thermometer and decided to go to fan on demand. Great idea, 15¢ decal telling people about sure would have saved dealers lot of phone calls. Back den you turn machine on you expect to hear fan. Still switch dat puppy alive and autothink fan not running. Got real Thermal Dynamics plasma machine dey cheaped fan wid record player motor dat crapped out. TD wants 87 bucks for record player motor. (removed) looks inside machine and realises dey didn't even tip shroud de blade. Poor system. Grab 8" computer fan from surplus place and move twice de air thru machine. Been workin fer years.
Lincoln not much better when came to house welders. Repair guy showed me only difference between 185 model and 225 model toumbstone is fan on 225 amd dial. . 185 even got holes for fan mount but no fan. Dat just how de world works.

Duty cycle strictly function of keeping machine innards cooled.

 

[the old grind]

Agree with all said above. Better cooling fan is best upgrade, esp for econo-welders. (HFT, etc)

My Everlast has two fans. One runs continuously.

All that said, I guess we agree that buying 'above planned use' isn't that big a deal. :laughing:

btw, IMO justifying cost for quality is moot when paying for something to last years (tractoe, implement, etc) vs billed to a job and perhaps of 'disposable' quality. (HFT? got a few of them too )

 

[user.69169]

Agree with all said above. Better cooling fan is best upgrade, esp for econo-welders. (HFT, etc)

My Everlast has two fans. One runs continuously.

All that said, I guess we agree that buying 'above planned use' isn't that big a deal. :laughing:

btw, IMO justifying cost for quality is moot when paying for something to last years (tractoe, implement, etc) vs billed to a job and perhaps of 'disposable' quality. (HFT? got a few of them too )

HF is a strange deal. Dey buy in lots, like 10 containers is a lot and let de chinee bid on makin to der blueprint wid HF holding payment & refusal rights. Chinee can and do build quality IF you watchin close. Some batches HF machines got sweet arc, probably capacitor quality, next run got crappy arc. I welded some wid a good HF TIG machine dat was DC only wid too short torch cable, welded really nice, BUT No AC. Designer missed de mark on dat box. Maybe cheaper to make by running transformer full out & adjustin DC side, beats me.

Best part Horrible Fright, buy, bring home and run he11 out of machine for 2 months dey take back if you ain't happy. Economy of scale thing dey can do. Got lot of stores to do it at too so no shipping.

Me, I got no need of new welder, got Lincolns in depth, all 50 years old and still ready to go to work. Got parts machines too. Also got GENUINE Miller Bros MM-200, sweetest MIG built and little Lincoln 175 dat pretty sweet too and more portable, not dat I plan carryin anyplace. Dat's track recors I don't see any inverter machine making, not dat I be around to check.

 

[swines]

If you want a MIG welder that will deliver enough current to weld 1/2-inch steel, then the minimum would be a 250 Amp machine. However, welding 1/2-inch steel with a MIG is not a trivial exercise. While most ship building, today, is done with MIG welders the weld process control to do that is quite exacting. MIG welding of thick metals starts with correct joint preparation, wire / process choice, and a relatively tight root gap. The type of welding setup needed can range from using a spray arc process, to flux core wire, to dual-shielded flux core process. The process choice depends upon the type of steel alloy being welded AND gas being used if gas shielding is part of the process, as gas choice is a factor in weld penetration. If you really think you want to weld 1/2-inch with a MIG, you need to do some research into the MIG process with thicker materials so that you understand all of the factors involved in making successful welds that aren't weak because of hydrogen embrittlement, porosity, cold welds, etc.

I have a 300 Amp "multi-process" machine. Multi-process with a MIG simply means you can use the DC power source for MIG, stick, and lift TIG. In reality, the machine is really a MIG welder that will also do stick. Attempting to run TIG with most of the machines is limited to DC process, most won't have pre / post flow control, pulse controls, foot peddle interface, etc. I've used my machine for TIG - a real PITA. I would have no hesitation using it for stick. Because the machine's performance for TIG was so rudimentary, I ended up buying a 200 Amp TIG machine.

One comment on 120 VAC welders. I purchased a Miller Maxstarr welder in about 1997 because I needed a small, portable welder to do some welding projects. I've done about 500 feet of pipe fence with it, numerous small field projects for a variety of people and the welder works just fine if you understand its limits and choose the correct electrodes to use with it. In fact, I loaned the welder to a guy that is one of the best professional weldors I've ever seen. He used it on both 120 VAC and 240 VAC to weld an overhead trolley crane track for a machine shop. That was 20 years ago - the crane is still used everyday. A lot of the success in welding has less to do with machine choice, and everything to do with what you know about welding, welding technique, and weld joint preparation.

If I wanted a 200+ Amp quality welding machine today, I'd probably look at welding machines that could do spray transfer / pulsed welding as well as constant voltage. You can get better penetration and there are some real advantages when doing stainless with pulsed settings. Welding aluminum is usually a DCEP process with a MIG, and many machines have a specific setup for aluminum that will give a hot start function and double pulse.

The really nice thing today, is that the machines have a lot of programs built in to them like a pulsed spray arc for galvanized steel without melting the zinc coating, programs for sheet metal to reduce distortion, gas-less flux-cored programs, and gas shielded flux-cored programs. Some machines will have a polarity reversal switch on the front of that allows you to weld using flux-cored wire without shielding gas without having to change ground lead on the machine.

Lots of choices in machines today that give incredible welding control and flexibility. You need to decide the features you want versus what your budget will allow.

 

[user.69169]

Way back in 1960s James Lincoln made speach lamenting de shortage of real welders and turnover as dey went job to job for more money. He said time had come to learn to bend steel to save welds and minimize use of welds to necessary only. Also said Lincoln was starting road to building superior machines dat could produce welds wid little more den entry level men runnin dem.
We pretty much got der by de 90s an den bunch of kids wid engineer stamps went runnin wild creating things der little need for.

Den came de marketing people who gonna put a welding machine in every 'man cave'. It de IN thing, kegerator, car lift roller cabinet and welder not dat fellow who brings home pay for sitting in cell wid desk can change tire on his car, but he by god got de tools. Got laptop too so he can design welding bench. Dey want acorn table soon as dey can find an app on der watch shows dem what acorn good for.

Dey all sure no need for anything but MIG dialed in from laptop so dey can build welding bench and cart too. Got no d a m idea what goein on in de puddle, but dey golden arm in lunchroom at work. Dey gonna get Certified too soon as dey find right school.

OK, let me know how dat flys.

Weld is long made between ears of man wid torch or stinger before machine turns on and helmet comes down. Skill ain't learned in no book, and ain't a welder I know, man or woman gonna waste his time pourin it in some arrogant kid too good to get dirty. Double dat not showin to some welp gets offended when growled at. More good use of time watchin robots and seein what dey can do.

Now please do tell me how a machine other then resistance spot machine can melt zinc plated steel together widout melting de zinc. Beyond end to end butt on wire or rod I see no possible way.

Spray transfer not even in picture anyplace but production situation I see.

 

[the old grind]

"A horse was good enough for my grandfather, it's good enough for me." Who needs a tractor with realities like that staring us in the face?

It appears that welders less than 50 yrs old are just gimmicks we're suckered into buying, and w/o exception they under-perform our needs and things break a lot.

I hope the OP can get by with a buzz-box as old as he was when he left the thread. We've been informed.

Gotta go warm up the Model T for a trip to the grocery store. I'll be listening for (removed) to come clip-clopping up on ol' Paint.