Spreader One-point Spreader 1968 IH Farmall 140

[diamondjfarmwv]

Thank you, sir, for the informative reply! I will certainly heed your reply about seeding during calm weather. Last surmmer, I partitioned off my small 3-acre pasture into three turnouts; have each fenced. Soil was severely compacted and was 75-90 percent weed, so I plowed with my double spade plow, then ran a 16-disc harrow over the ground twice. I bought 10 gal of store brand 41% glycosphate (sp?) for 75% off at Tractor Supply in late fall, but have been told by local xtension agent it would be a waste to apply herbicide when weeds/grasses are dormant. Not sure what to do as I still have some weeds, but want to lime, seed, and fertilize this year. Any thoughts on my conundrum? P.S. We're here in west-central WV, not far from border with Ohio at Point Pleasant.

 

[DJ54]

Personally, I'd seed it with what you intend. Hopefully heavy enough to maybe choke out weeds. Clip it high, maybe 6"-8" when/if weeds look to start heading out. You may have to do that at least 3, probably 4 times over the summer. And it will probably take several years to have a lot less weeds. The idea is to let weed seed germinate to grow, but clip it before it goes to seed, and kill it. Some are tricky, and form seed heads down low, after clipping once or twice. Ragweed is really good for that..!!

You're going to have a stray here and there anyway, no matter what. Weed seeds will either be carried in by the wind, birds, or other critter's passing through, that seeds may have stuck to fur, or seeds eaten by birds, and passed on through droppings. If it's not worth running the tractor over for a very few, I've even spent a couple evenings with a weed whip, just to clip off a weed here and there.

You're about 2 weeks ahead of us on the growing cycle. If you're set to go, and it's solid enough next time you have bare ground, I'd go for it.

The first time I tried it on a pasture, it was actually part of a lawn. I mowed it as low as I could get in the late fall. I kept it clipped fairly short anyway, so there wouldn't be much mulch on top. Sowed grass seed approx. March 1, and had knee high alfalfa by June 1. This was a pasture mix that had maybe 10% alfalfa, so used it as a growth gauge. Mine will eat around Alfalfa & Red Top clover to get at more tender grass.

When I reseeded my hay field about 10 years ago, I disked it diagonally twice in the late fall. I'd made 3rd cutting late intentionally, so there wasn't much regrowth. Just wanted to break the heavy sod just a bit. I seeded approx. March 1 again that year, and it did great. From then on, I've used that method, unless it's a warm weather grass like Timothy as mentioned. I've seen Cattle farmer's here sow Red Clover seed on snow, and have great fields of clover hay.

Ohio State University has some good info on the frost seeding, if you go to their Extension site. Just know, you may not get the full growth potential the first year, since you've turned the soil. Next year is when you will really notice it.

 

[diamondjfarmwv]

Wow. You are very knowledgeable. I've printed out your recommendations and taped to my farm calendar in my shop.

So should I use the herbicide at all before seeding in early March, or just wait until late fall once the livestock's ready to go on hay? Don't wanna waste the glysophate even though I got it for 25 cents on the dollar. I, also, disked diagonally after plowing up the compacted soil.

It is possible that if I disked again--or even plowed--later this month if I catch 4 or 5 dry days in a row, that this might kill as many weeds as the herbicide? Thanks! Mark

 

[DJ54]

Don't know about the knowledge, just passing on what little I've learned about a few things.

Too bad you didn't speak up late last summer. I'd have suggested sowing a cover crop on what you turned over, and disked up. Something like Oats, or Buckwheat sown on fairly heavy would have suppressed any weeds, and killed by the winter cold. Sown late enough, it wouldn't have gotten that tall, but enough to not worry about erosion. Then come spring, enough open earth to still frost seed. It would have also given your new grass a little kick from N produced decomposing. Oh well...

Don't know I'd use the Glyphosate at all, period. But that's me. I use it around buildings and parts of the driveway, but that's about it.

It won't do any good, unless you have plants growing. And depending on the rate, if applied heavy enough, some of the extended types can keep anything from germinating for up to 4 months.

If you've got the pastures worked down pretty decent, and the freeze/thaw has mellowed it even more. If it'd be acceptable for the finished pasture, I'd just Frost Seed it. If it's still pretty rough, wait until it's workable, get the finish you want, sow the seed, then go over it with a cultipacker, or some sort of roller to set the seed in.

Again, if the grass seed is sown heavy enough, it should choke out the weeds. If some do come up, mow it off before they go to seed.

Guessing you'll have to watch overgrazing the new seeding too. Horses having upper teeth have the ability to nip grass right down to the ground, and even pull it out by the roots. Where as cattle with no upper teeth, and just able to pull & twist it off, usually leave about 2" of established grass.

And another thing... Do not turn them out on lush grass..!! I found out the hard way last year, even though I just let them out for an hour, up to 8-10 hours over a period of two weeks the first of April. I had two within a hair of foundering. I waited too late to turn them out, hoping to let the grass get ahead of them a bit, as I reseeded in the fall, even though it was formerly part of my hay field. Just wanted to sweeten it up a bit.They simply gorged themselves, and new growth grass is close to 21%+ protein. This year they will be turned out as soon as it starts greening up. And after any frost that may be on the grass, melts off. I ended up feeding out all of my first cutting hay, which was a little shy anyway, due to cutting it early, to keep them off pasture for 14 weeks, until they were sound enough to go back on pasture.

So clipping the new growth grass won't hurt a thing, if you see weeds growing, and clipping before they go to seed. It should be well established by then.

 

[diamondjfarmwv]

Got it. Just found this forum a week or so back, and you and Kebo, and others, have been very helpful.

The extension agent also indicated that glyphosate won't work on dormant plants.

One turnout, about an acre, is worked down; I think I will frost seed this area. The other two ( I want to rotational graze) still need some work with the disc. When I get ready, and set the seed w/the cultipacker, do I fertilize before packing or after? And how heavy do I sow to choke weeds? Farmers here sow about 25lb per acre; should I increase to 50lb?

I know all too well how our horses chew down to the dirt. Got a pasture stick from a conservation agency, and will use it to close off a turnout once they graze to about 3". I've also been told to not let them graze on new pasture, even if it's tall, during wet times to avoid killing tender grasses.

21 percent! That's dble sweet mix! Wow!

Would it be wise to cut and bale the new growth, about Memorial Day weekend, if dry beforehand, and keep them on feed store hay (good quality and not too expensive) until grass is high enough (mid-late July here) for a 2nd cutting?

Again, thank you. You are certainly giving me lots to think about, and I appreciate you taking the time to give me the benefit of your experience.

 

[DJ54]

25 lb. should be plenty. It may be towards July before it gets tall enough to make something to bale. Might be wrong... Might be best to apply fertilizer before you even disk, and it will work it in. Might also check with your Ex. Agent on that one.

If all of your nutrients are up to snuff, all new spring growth will be right at 21%. Lots of info through OSU & UK Extension offices online. You can spend literally hours reading on forages, and proper care. Never really checked to see if WV has anything, but I'm sure they would.

No problem. Just seems when you plan on doing something like this, you need to plan 6 months, to a year in advance. Gives you plenty of time to get your ducks in a row...

 

[diamondjfarmwv]

Ok. 25 pounds mixed seeds and legumes.

You are correct about the planning. Last year was our first full year here, and I did have the extension agent out, read all her literature, attended local farm bureau meetings, and talked to local feed/seed store owner and farmers, but I still may not be ready to have the pasture that I want until next year.

Thanks again for all the recs. Anything else you can think of let me know. Will let you know how the PTO driven broadcast spreader works.

 

[DJ54]

Here is the FactSheet on frost seeding from OSU's Extension Service site.Improving Pasture with Frost Seeding, ANR-14-02 When you read on down a ways. it shows the lbs. to be sown per acre. Maybe this will help you determine the amount you need. Depends on how many different grasses & legumes you planing on sowing.

Unless you're having someone custom blend mix what you want, most pre-packaged pasture mix bags have the amount per acre on the back of the bag.

Seed companies like Ruffs Ruff's Seed Farms - Offering top yielding corn, soybean, and wheat hybrids near me, also give the seeding rate, and lb. bags the seed comes in.

If you frost seed the first one, maybe by the time it gets decent enough to work the other two, it will be germinating, and see if it looks to be enough. It is better to have a bit more, than not enough... Judgement call on your part there.

One of my local horse pals went to a local mill I suggested she go to, to get seed. Owner of the mill suggested 50 lb. to the acre of mix, being she was just broadcasting on already weedy fields. No tillage at all, and after time to frost seed. Seemed like overkill to me, but Oh well... But then, he's in business to sell seed..., LOL... I never did think to ask how it did...

Good luck..!!

 

[diamondjfarmwv]

Thanks, DJ. I do plan to purchase the pasture mix from my local "mom-and-pop" farm store; they've been good to deal with since we've moved into the area, is very reasonable on all his products, and will give advice based on their experience. They also raise a few dozen head of black Angus on site and have some of the best pasture grass in the County--and he uses what he sells!

Appreciate the links!

BTW. Took my Mom to see a doctor in Huntington today, and took a long way back home: Route 2 north, from Barboursville, WV, along the Ohio, through Apple Grove and Point Pleasant. Headed home via 62South thru Mason Co. then turned East up and across four ridg roads to our farm. Ohio had ice in it along our border!

Whatz the h.p. on your Massey 180?

 

[DJ54]

That's the best place to shop..!! Tough to beat actual experience for the area.

If you came by the water tower for Point, on Rt. 2, that is where my aunt & uncle used to live. Once upon a time, you could see the Silver Bridge from their kitchen window. My aunt came across it, just 45 minutes before it crashed into the river. She was doing dishes, when she heard it go down. Couldn't figure out what it was, then noticed it was gone. She had nightmares for month's afterwards.

HP tests rate the 180 at 64 pto & 54 on the drawbar. It's just a backup tractor for my IH 656, just in case something would happen at baling time. So far it has just done gin jobs. One of those deals I just couldn't pass on, and was pretty cheap HP to have around, until the aux. hyd. pump grenaded. Between that, and having the main pump rebuilt, and new clutches in the pto, it doubled what I had in it. She's not pretty, but still cheap backup hp.