Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti

   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #1  

rtimgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
1,517
Here in western KY we have been the victim of the miracle of Christmas, also known as 12" of snow (probably more than we've had in the last 10 years combined). I've been using my DK 45 to plow our driveway and county roads (the county road grader finally made a pass, but didn't go all the way to the end (no place to turn around), so I cleared the ends of roads. It's been a lot of snow and a lot of clearing.

I went to work yesterday to move some furniture while no one else was there and got drafted into snow removal service. We had two contractors, one on a JD skidsteer loader and the other on a JD 4050 tractor with loader and hydraulic rear blade (and cab). So I hopped on the Kubota L3130 that we had bought for the plant.

It was the first time since the test drive that I had driven the tractor. After operating the Kioti for years, operating the Kubota was quite intuitive (so I guess Kioti has done a very good job of emulating Kubota). The temperature was a little below 20F, but fired right up and purred along.

Even though the Kubota was only about 2/3 the power of my Kioti, I was quite impressed with its ability to push snow. For the most part, I was pushing at right angles to the big JD tractor, making piles for him to push into a big pile. I also did some miscellaneous clearing and used the spreader that was mounted on the 3 pt hitch to salt the parking lots and roads (we have around 10 or 12 acres of parking lot).

Some observations:

The shuttle shift on the Kubota was slightly different - seems you have to lift up going to forward and reverse versus the straight throw on my DK 45 - just took a couple of shifts to get used to, perfect after that.

Kubota must have a seat safety switch - can't get off the tractro with the PTO running. I guess this is a good feature, but I'm also assuming you can't get off the tractor while it is in gear and moving. Now you may wonder why I would want to do that, but it is a pretty safe occurance - when we are picking up tobacco on the stick (after it is cut), it is usually just three or four of us and no dedicated driver. We put the Kioti in creeper gear, set the throttle and let it pilot itself down the skip row while occasionally correcting the steering from the ground. If any of you guys have ever used the creeper gear, you know how slow I'm talking about. We also occassionally do the same in the hay fields picking up square bales (although we usually have a driver for hay pick up). Again, that is not a big deal but it is a difference.

The dashboard on the Kubota was one of the LCD displays (or something like that). Good layout and easy to read - but I perfer the regular dial gauge/idiot light layout. I imagine that the dash for the Kubota will last every bit as long as the as the regular dial layout setup.

The loader for the Kubota seemed well matched to the tractor - operation identical to the Rhino loader on my Kioti. I have to admit, it did seem to cycle a bit faster than my Rhino loader does. Very responsive overall.

The Kubota did not have a step on the right side of the operator platform, while the Kioti does. I had to either stretch or walk around the tractor several times. If the Kubota was mine, I would put a step on that side.

Overall, I was very impressed with the Kubota tractor. Years ago, when I was shopping for my Kioti, I planned to get a Kubota but saved enough money to justify the purchase of a Kioti. When we bought the Kubota for the plant, we compared it to the DK 35 (which I guess we really should have compared it to a L3430). The Kioti DK 35 was cheaper (by around $500, I think) but also came with a canopy and box blade - however, the tractor selection commitee at work chose the name recognition of the Kubota over the efficiency and extras of the Kioti. After operating the Kubota for several hours, I think that we made a good choice. All things being equal and price notwithstanding, I would have a hard time choosing between a Kioti and Kubota.

Sorry for the long post - it was just a rare opportunity to operate two competing brands on the same day doing the same tasks (although size/power not the same) and give a report.
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #2  
Seat switches don't belong on tractors. They (tractors) are used for too many things other than what some engineer (or especially some lawyer) determines that it should be used for. I know they can be defeated, but they shouldn't have to be. Or at the very least put a disable switch in line like new cars have for the passenger side airbags.

Keep in mind this is coming from someone is so @n@l about someone else making decisions for me that I disable the motion sensors that lock door locks on some cars. If I want the blasted things locked, by golly I'll do it myself.

That "feature" alone would have been enough to push me toward the Kioti in a close comparison.
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #3  
<font color="red"> That "feature" alone would have been enough to push me toward the Kioti in a close comparison. </font>

Then you wouldn't like a New Holland! Safety interlocks all over the place. Seat switch shut off. Can only start in "N" range. Get off the seat and you have to engage the parking brake and shift the tractor to "N" too! There are times when I want to disable all that stuff, but then I figure that when I park it, by having all that stuff, the likelyhood that a child will start it up is pretty slim so I leave it all on there!

--

By the way, I liked the comparison. Despite the mismatch in size & power between the machines, the review was very informative. Pricing is very interesting by region, clearly given the capablilities, the Kioti would be the clear choice if the dealers were basically equals.
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #4  
<font color="blue"> There are times when I want to disable all that stuff, but then I figure that when I park it, by having all that stuff, the likelyhood that a child will start it up is pretty slim so I leave it all on there! </font>

Don't you remove the your key? When people are worried about kids, why don't they treat their key(s) like a gun and keep it/them out of sight and reach /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif? G
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #5  
<font color="orange"> Don't you remove the your key? When people are worried about kids, why don't they treat their key(s) like a gun and keep it/them out of sight and reach </font>

One reason, a kid might actually try ANY key to start the tractor, and often ANY key (or Non-Key) will work....
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #6  
Do I remove the key?

Sometimes. But the reality is many tractors will start by jamming a screwdriver, a thin metal bar, or even a chunk of wood into the key hole. No safety is totally foolproof. And most kids can open child safety caps on medicine bottles easier than most adults. . . if they can do that, they can probably find the tractor key or they can "invent" their own key.

And by the way, I taught my daughter not to play with my tractors and not to play with my guns. . . but that doesn't mean that her little friends might not hop on a tractor and consider it a toy.
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #7  
An education issue or lack of proper supervision issue should not make me have to jump through hoops to get off and pick up a beer can while mowing or defeat (or at least appease) 15 different interlocks to run a PTO generator.

As @n@l as I am about making my own decisions... I'm just as big on taking the heat that is due me if I make a mistake. The big thing is it is my decision to make. Not theirs. If I stand on the top rung of a ladder and fall off its my bone headedness that did it. I would never sue someone. I do, however, choose the situation and if warranted occasionally stand on the top rung of a ladder.

I didn't mean to steer this thread toward safety issues, but I was truthful that in the comparison given by rtimgray that the safety interlocks would have swayed me. I'm not totally against safety being designed into a product. But when it interferes with free use of something, or if there is no way to defeat a safety interlock without modifying the item, then I have issues with it. The scenario given above about walking beside the tractor in creeper gear is a perfect example. PTO generators, water pumps are others. Getting off the tractor to move something without having to appease safety interlocks is another, but only as long as someone is willing to assume the risk. I am more than willing to assume that risk.
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #8  
An informative and thoughtful post. Thanks for taking the time to think all this through. Great post.

Cliff
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #9  
You can use the PTO on the Kubota tractors with the safety lock and not be on the tractor. My book says if using a log splitter when you go to get off the tractor, jerk the seat up fast and it will not kill the motor. I like the kill switch on the seat for the PTO. You shouldn't get off a tractor while mowing leaving the mower running. It is not a safe practice and with the new switch they are making sure you are still around to buy more of their machines.
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #10  
I think you can run the PTO while off the tractor if you put it in nutural and set the parking break. That makes sense to me... but I agree that the safty features can be a pain. Heck I bobble around with customers all the time because I can't remeber what tractors have what safty equipment.

Stupid lawyers, if it was not for them and people trying to make a living off suing others we would not have this problem. I am willing to bet the number of dealers who have been sued by customers who did something stupid is over 50%. Its tough because many customers ask how to override safty equipment and/or remove their ROPS.
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #11  
I'm with you Getut. I view safety interlocks as just more delicate parts to watch for when maintaining or cleaning my tractor. Heck, if I had em on my tractor I'd have to disable them since a large percentage of my use is off the tractor, winching logs, chipping brush, or splitting firewood.

Pete
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #12  
<font color="red"> Stupid lawyers, if it was not for them and people trying to make a living off suing others we would not have this problem. I am willing to bet the number of dealers who have been sued by customers who did something stupid is over 50%. Its tough because many customers ask how to override safty equipment and/or remove their ROPS. </font>

Neil, just before Christmas I had a Cub Cadet GT delivered to my office as a Christmas Bonus for my sales manager. While the delivery guy was here talking to my sales manager he told him that you can't mow in reverse with a Cub Cadet. Then he said, "you didn't hear this from me, but if you want to disable the switch . . . "

As for running the PTO when off a NH tractor, it is easy, you have to shift it to N and set the parking brake. About 1/2 the time I forget to do one or the other and kill the engine when the seat safety kicks in. Sometimes that is a pain in the rear, sometimes it is just inconvenient. I find when I switch from the NH to the Kubota or visa-versa I have to think before starting the tractor because they have different interlocks. One of my neighbors who usually is on the Kubota had a heck of a time one day when I dropped the NH off at his shop so he could do some work in his yard . . . I left it for him and he couldn't get it started!

Personally, I could live without all of the safety interlocks but I understand why they are there, but then I am one of those folks like Getut who realizes that as individuals, we all have choices that we make, and that some of those choices might carry a level of risk. I think it boils down to the concept of individual responsibility.
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #13  
Great machine comparison, what an opportunity to have both to run on the same day. In our area Kioti is pretty much non existant, sure would like to see one up close as they look pretty nice.

Can't help but chuckle on the safety issues, you guys oughta be on an OSHA committee /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I agree though, all these gadgets & switches should be optional. My friends kid stalled her older Buick last week in the middle of an intersection, the battery was dead and she could not open the automatic door locks or windows to get out, wow. She was rescued alright, but consider what could have happened just because some well meaning safety wiz kid designed all those auto safety switches into that car. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #14  
Pete - you wouldn't - no you'd never disable a safety interlock!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My first sears tractor 1975 16 HP Onan twin version had several safety interlocks. Think they may have lasted a week before circumstances dictated a permanent bypass mode.

Egon
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #15  
No offence, Neil and Getut, but the safety devices that most manufacturers find it prudent to put on their machines nowadays weren't mandated by lawyers.

They are a response to liability imposed by JURIES (composed of folks just as sensible as you and me), who concluded, in instances where the technology to prevent a serious or possibly fatal injury was easily and economically available, that such devices SHOULD have been furnished.

Would you really prefer machines to be manufactured the way they were 100 years ago, when punch presses, for example, were made without any device that cut the power if the operator removed his hands from the controls, with the result that countless operators' hands were crushed to pulp by the press....

...Pretty manipulative of the lawyers who tried those cases, to have asked their fellow citizens to consider whether the manufacturers shouldn't be required to do a little better...or to compensate for the injuries that their machines caused needlessly.

In contrast, the seat interlock on the Kubota is pretty unobtrusive. You can operate anything you want from the rear PTO without being in the seat as long as you flip the seat forward at the time you get off.

It takes a bit of getting used to so that you do not forget to do it and kill the engine, but I think it is a pretty good idea. All it really makes you do is think for a moment "do I really want the PTO running after I get off?"

If you do, fine. I don't think that making you flip the seat up pre-empts the operator's decision in any onerous way; it just helps to make sure that it's deliberate rather than inadvertant.

After all, from the various post hole digger threads that I've been reading lately, in anticipation of the delivery of one this week, you probably shouldn't have your PTO running when you get off the tractor if you've got a PHD hooked up. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #16  
That was an informative review. Thanks.

I just wish tractors were like they were in the old days where the only safety feature was the operator's common sense.
 
   / Operating Opportunity - Kubota vs Kioti #17  
Yeah, I see lotsa of guys who grew up using those... I wave but they never wave back... I like having both arms...
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2014 VOLVO A40G WATER TRUCK (A60429)
2014 VOLVO A40G...
Peterbilt Tandem Axle Road Tractor (A47477)
Peterbilt Tandem...
Deere 310SK (A57148)
Deere 310SK (A57148)
LGMG SS1932E SCISSOR LIFT (A60429)
LGMG SS1932E...
2462 (A60432)
2462 (A60432)
UNUSED FUTURE PC71-71" HYD PLATE COMPACTOR (A60432)
UNUSED FUTURE...
 
Top