Opinions

[GCLM]

I'm curious . . . in the picture . . the trailer seems so small and you wouldn't be able to xarry both units at the same time much less any others tools.

Was there a sowcual reason for such a small trailer?

This pic was a transitional period where I had both riders. I sold the 595 soon after this. I wouldnt carry both machines around with me. I used to mow some insanely steep properties and had a few scares, enough to get away from that kind of mowing. A neighbour/friend bought the 595 so I see it working to this day!

I would only carry the tools I needed for the day. Most times I would only carry one trimmer, the BP blower and a rider on the trailer. Once a week I would need the 21", the brush cutter once a month and so on.
The trailer was designed purely for a rider. Its a tilt. I wanted small to make it easier to tow. Heaps of hills so keeping weight down was important. Trailers worked very well for me actually!

Just had some news, Ive sold my SZ so thats one step closer to the new tractor!

 

[GCLM]

Have another question for you lot...
Ive been doing a lot more reading on the forum since I have a better understanding of what to search ie, the different number/names of these MF's. I came across one thread that said the 1705 and the 1715 is exactly the same tractor! Only difference is the "Rated Engine Speed" (off the brochure.) The 1705 has 2600rmp for 22.5hp and the 1715 is 3000rpm for 24.5hp. The displacement for both engines are exactly the same, 1123cc!
Im betting they fudged the numbers by de or up tuning the rpm's.

I guess my question is, if all is equal, could I buy the "lesser" machine and just raise the revs for the extra hp (etc)? There will be a few thousand dollars difference between the 2 machine and I'll be buggered if I want to spend it for a few extra rpm's!

Or, have I missed something here?

 

[AxleHub]

Have another question for you lot...
Ive been doing a lot more reading on the forum since I have a better understanding of what to search ie, the different number/names of these MF's. I came across one thread that said the 1705 and the 1715 is exactly the same tractor! Only difference is the "Rated Engine Speed" (off the brochure.) The 1705 has 2600rmp for 22.5hp and the 1715 is 3000rpm for 24.5hp. The displacement for both engines are exactly the same, 1123cc!
Im betting they fudged the numbers by de or up tuning the rpm's.

I guess my question is, if all is equal, could I buy the "lesser" machine and just raise the revs for the extra hp (etc)? There will be a few thousand dollars difference between the 2 machine and I'll be buggered if I want to spend it for a few extra rpm's!

Or, have I missed something here?

Yowouldbe correct that you missed something.

1. Typically the pricing difference between a GC 1705 vs GC1715 will be $1200 or so . . not thousands.

2. The engine itself is a set dislacement . . . However that does not mean it is just an rpm change. The pumps are higher flow and the engine design is made for different tolerances that handle 2.5 hp more and higher rpm needs.

3. Seats are much different

4. Auxiliary light and armoring of directionals.

There may be more but this is a start of the $1200 benefits.

 

[GCLM]

Yowouldbe correct that you missed something.

1. Typically the pricing difference between a GC 1705 vs GC1715 will be $1200 or so . . not thousands.

2. The engine itself is a set dislacement . . . However that does not mean it is just an rpm change. The pumps are higher flow and the engine design is made for different tolerances that handle 2.5 hp more and higher rpm needs.

3. Seats are much different

4. Auxiliary light and armoring of directionals.

There may be more but this is a start of the $1200 benefits.

Im getting the dealer to come out and give me a trade in price next week. I'll definitely find out price differences and let you know! But the 1715 4in1 loader and mid mount is $26000, Imm pretty sure the difference will be more than your $1200.

I just dont know about the pump flow etc. Yes, it is different but if they were both running at 2000rpm, wouldnt the flow be the same? Higher revs, more flow!
PTO Hp is 18.7 v's 19.6..... Revs?

All other specs are the same? Better seats weigh more, bigger pumps, heavier built engines etc weigh more! They are exactly the same weight going off the brochure!

Why arent back hoe versions of these machines based on the highest hp or highest spec machines? Kubota's the same!

 

[TJP89]

Im getting the dealer to come out and give me a trade in price next week. I'll definitely find out price differences and let you know! But the 1715 4in1 loader and mid mount is $26000, Imm pretty sure the difference will be more than your $1200.

I just dont know about the pump flow etc. Yes, it is different but if they were both running at 2000rpm, wouldnt the flow be the same? Higher revs, more flow!
PTO Hp is 18.7 v's 19.6..... Revs?

All other specs are the same? Better seats weigh more, bigger pumps, heavier built engines etc weigh more! They are exactly the same weight going off the brochure!

Why arent back hoe versions of these machines based on the highest hp or highest spec machines? Kubota's the same!

Typically it's XHP at XRPMs. By your logic, if you throttle up the smaller engine you have the bigger one- not how it works. I'm not a mechanical engineer, but tuning the engine can involve fuel pump adjustments and I think rod adjustments, as well as valves. While the basic engine block may be the same, it's been tinkered with in a major way at the factory. While theoretically it may be possible to boost the power, it's not a minor job for anyone but a very qualified mechanic. I'm not familiar with the tractor in question, but it sounds like there is more difference than just the engine HP. Also, $1200 is probably a close guess in difference, when I bought my CK35, it was only 700 more than the CK30, which is 4 less HP.

 

[AxleHub]

Im getting the dealer to come out and give me a trade in price next week. I'll definitely find out price differences and let you know! But the 1715 4in1 loader and mid mount is $26000, Imm pretty sure the difference will be more than your $1200.

I just dont know about the pump flow etc. Yes, it is different but if they were both running at 2000rpm, wouldnt the flow be the same? Higher revs, more flow!
PTO Hp is 18.7 v's 19.6..... Revs?

All other specs are the same? Better seats weigh more, bigger pumps, heavier built engines etc weigh more! They are exactly the same weight going off the brochure!

Why arent back hoe versions of these machines based on the highest hp or highest spec machines? Kubota's the same!

The approximate $1200 difference between the gc1705 and gc1715 has nothing to do with the loader and is based on US dollar prices in the US. If you are in other countries or currencies . . . Obviously It will vary.

A higher quality seat versus a lower desired seat may have little difference in weight. Your logic fails me that weight and engine dimensions support the same product with just higher rpms. There are soooooo many variables involved that debate that logic.

The fact is . . . Massey certifies each engine and its performance numbers. If it was as simple as revving an engine a couple hundred rpm, you couldn't claim pump output and hp output as different numbers.

You wrote: "Why arent back hoe versions of these machines based on the highest hp or highest spec machines? Kubota's the same!" I don't understand this statement. A GC1710 has different specs than a GC1720.

 

[GCLM]

TJP, I dont know, coming out of the lawn care industry I really dont trust any company any more! Look at the way engine manu's over stated the HP of there engines.
Kawi had 34 and 37hp engine. Only difference was the carb or the jets. The rest of the engine was basically the same for an extra 3 hp and extra price. You might see where Im coming from with this!
Turning up the revs on small engines happens all the time in the LC industry. It increases blade tip speed, increases vacuum etc.

Axle, Ive told you before I am going off Aussie dollars re the $26000 price tag. Your $1200 can easily turn into $3000au. $3k is a lot of money I dont care where you are! lol

As far as the weight, on the brochure they are exactly the same weight, exactly! One would think if there was better or heavier equipment on these things the weight would go up, even just a little bit! Bigger pumps certainly weigh more for example!
Yes, after posting I went and found the MF 1720 so I stand corrected on that! My bad!


Please dont get me wrong here, Im not trying to argue with you lot, Im just kind of thinking out loud and appreciate the input (I did ask for it)! This purchase will likely happen very soon one way or another.

I read on a thread where a mechanic told a guy that he would go for the lesser machine because there is so little difference for the price. Thats kind of what got me rolling on this!

 

[Grandad4]

Hello GCLM! I think you raise a fair point concerning what difference there might be between the 1705 and the 1715. I'd think long and hard about whether a slight gain in power (5%?) would be worth paying significantly more.

I don't know the Massey products except by reputation but have years of experience with a similar machine. It's my opinion that these small tractors are seldom limited in the work they can do by a lack of horsepower; in most circumstances their small size and weight is the limiting factor. I would expect that you could operate either of those machines for days or weeks at a time without encountering a situation where the engine power would have made any noticeable difference. There are indeed some applications where added power would make a difference of course, particularly involving pto-driven ground engagement implements such as a rotary tiller, or severe mowing. If your needs involve something like that, the up-rated engine would make sense; otherwise it wouldn't be essential.

Whichever one you choose, you'll have a fine machine.

 

[AxleHub]

Hello GCLM! I think you raise a fair point concerning what difference there might be between the 1705 and the 1715. I'd think long and hard about whether a slight gain in power (5%?) would be worth paying significantly more.

I don't know the Massey products except by reputation but have years of experience with a similar machine. It's my opinion that these small tractors are seldom limited in the work they can do by a lack of horsepower; in most circumstances their small size and weight is the limiting factor. I would expect that you could operate either of those machines for days or weeks at a time without encountering a situation where the engine power would have made any noticeable difference. There are indeed some applications where added power would make a difference of course, particularly involving pto-driven ground engagement implements such as a rotary tiller, or severe mowing. If your needs involve something like that, the up-rated engine would make sense; otherwise it wouldn't be essential.

Whichever one you choose, you'll have a fine machine.

Just for info 22.5 hp to 25 hp is 10% increase.

18.2 to 19.7 hp at reaar pto would be almost 10% increase

Pump output from 6.2 to 6.8 gpm would be just short of a 10% increase.

 

[AxleHub]

. . . . .

Axle, Ive told you before I am going off Aussie dollars re the $26000 price tag. Your $1200 can easily turn into $3000au. $3k is a lot of money I dont care where you are! lol

Greetings GCLM,

Because the bulk of readership on TBN is U.S. based . . . dollars are normally expressed in US dollars. When Canadian is mentioned its normally labelled as such.

Because you are in Australia . . . not only do you have a normal currency conversion . . . but it apears your pricing levels are different as well. I don't know if the income levels match those changes or not.

Shipping cost from Japan to Australia should be cheaper than Japan to the state of Georgia usa . . But maybe the distributor imports from the U.S. instead in small quantity.

Your brochures are a littke different than ours and you can get a 4 in 1 genuine Massey bucket . . . and I don't believe that is a commonly available item here.