Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...?????

[Mace Canute]

......... And yes my three years of Latin in my rinky dink high school really does help me with the occasional cross word puzzle, but
trigonometry? First they need to know how to spell it... Yes, for an academic curriculum, learning what this math is and how it applies to real life would of course be helpful..........

The importance of trigonometry to the real world is huge. Trigonometric functions are essential to many branches of science and technology. It is the foundation of surveying and navigation....GPS wouldn't exist without it. Machinists use it to set exact angles. Builders use it to build on the square. Roads and highways are built using it. It's important and used on an everyday basis.

There's a lot of stuff covered in school that has absolutely no practical purpose but trig is far from being one of them.

 

[daugen]

Mace, you and I likely went through the academic curriculum and yes, I agree with you, partially. My concern is for the nonperformers who get so overwhelmed and simply drop out. And the chances of society having to support them grows dramatically.
Since I took wood shop all the way through my senior year, a first for the school, yes, understanding angles is critical.

and no, I never heard of this ditty, but wish I had.

A common use of mnemonics is to remember facts and relationships in trigonometry. For example, the sine, cosine, and tangent ratios in a right triangle can be remembered by representing them as strings of letters. For instance, a mnemonic for English speakers is SOH-CAH-TOA:
Sine = Opposite ÷ HypotenuseCosine = Adjacent ÷ HypotenuseTangent = Opposite ÷ Adjacent
One way to remember the letters is to sound them out phonetically (i.e., SOH-CAH-TOA, which is pronounced 'so-kə-tow'-uh').[14] Another method is to expand the letters into a sentence, such as "Some Old Hippy Caught Another Hippy Trippin' On Acid".[15]

but I think we stray off topic.

 

[daugen]

This MSNBC host is just spouting the beliefs of the United Nations program called AGENDA 21. If you haven’t heard of United Nations AGENDA 21, it advocates that the government should raise the children instead of the parents because the government can do it better. They use the terms “living green” and “sustainable energy” to move their agenda along but underneath it their goal is to create a new world order. Obama has already signed over 900 executive orders to implement AGENDA 21 and it is currently underway in many cities in the US. I encourage each of you to find out more about AGENDA 21. It will affect how we live here in the US.

sounds like we ought to know more about Agenda 21

 

[Loren49]

I noticed that one of focuses on Common Core was improved mathematics, and apparently a sea change shift from teaching the tried and true progression of mathematics, including those parts that have minimal social impact on those we most worry about, (trig? algebra?) to one based on useful application. Now I don't want to rile up any math teachers here, but I don't think I've used a cosine in the last 63 years.Math was taught like a foreign language, and to me at least, it was. I had to be tutored in high school to get through some of it; but let me write an essay, and I'd get an A. 2x(5+4Z) just isn't going to help me getting my toast right in the morning...

Nor will it help the young man in front of me at the 7-11 last week who looked at a handful of change in his hand so long the store clerk had to suggest what went together to make 83 cents... Ok, he might have been "developmentally challenged" but I'm just using this as an example.
How is the kid ever going to balance a checkbook? How will his generation? Well, at least they can type. But I wonder how many of them
have zero idea what a QWERTY keyboard is? No wonder we are all LOL...not.

Good morning Daugen

I'm not really riled up though I spent 15 years as a high school math teachers ( after 10 years as a dairy farmer and a few things in between). My question is do you have a good understanding of cosine, sine, or tangent and their relevance in a right triangle? These trig functions use the fact that the ratio of any two sides of a right triangle are known for a given angle and can easily be use to find a unknown side. My response to many of my young students when they asked "when will I ever use this" was "there is no way you will ever use it because you have not learned it". My students who did well seldom asked the question just as the good athlete does not ask the coach why they had to run a timed mile or do 40 pushups. Whay is wrong with exercising the brain? I am 64 and have used math regularly in everyday life (outside the classroom and long before I was a teacher). Part of math is logic, reasoning, probability and statistics, and the number of times these things are misused in the media and politically is amazing.

Balancing a checkbook requires addition and subtraction skills or a calculator and knowing when to add or subtract. Exposing many students to higher level challenges in math and all other subjects does not necessaily mean the basics are not taught.

There are many facts and lessons I was exposed to in school that I would have a tough time explaining exactly when I've used it in my 64 years. As another example a person with a 6th grade reading level can get through life but there is aquality of life benefit of reading much better.

The most signifcant thing I learned from going back to college at 39 and earning a Bachelors and Masters is that I really know very little in relation to what is out there. My major in mathematics is the field where after my first 2 years including calculas and entry level courses in other areas of math I felt I had a good understanding but after two more years of further studies I realized I've just scratched the surface. It was very easy then to realized how little I know.

My final example of what I dealt with as a math teacher: I was in a conference with a student who really was not trying and her guidance counselor when the counselor said to the student " I understand, I had real trouble doing math also". Would a counselor ever say "I understand, I had real trouble reading also"? This student needed encouragement to make an effort, pay attention in class, come to me for help and attempt her homework, but instead had her attitude justified.

Knowledge is not a dangerous thing.

Loren

 

[daugen]

Ok, I should rightfully take some heat for a troglodyte statement.
I've had to use a lot of math in my life, but honestly just basic stuff.
The computer now holds all the formulas and I trust the machine/software more than my own
brain on some things. I've done tons of Excel spreadsheets and had to use the formulas. And always had problems with
them. Luckily they lit up if you were really doing something impossible.

Loren, thanks for all your good thoughts. My goal after college was to teach, probably social studies or some such,
and there were no jobs due to the Vietnam War. All filled. So I went into insurance. Guess if I had become an actuary I would not be
making such remarks.

And I went back to school also, at 54, and my was that challenging. Everyone in the finance class was half my age, or less.
Very humbling, and I was pretty humble going in...

Knowledge is power. And capability. and often, success.
I stand corrected, hopefully still being educable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uses_of_trigonometry

 

[Loren49]

more "central planning," so to say. It is basically taking away the ability of the states to teach as they see fit by holding hostage money. The Fed takes from the states and then holds them hostage in order to get it back.

There is no way one can argue for this or any other similar plan.

Though I agree completely with you post #114, in reponse to this post it is important to know that your home state receives almost twice as much federal money as it sends to Washington.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/give-take-small-final.png

It also appears that the federal share of k-12 education is under 10% of the total.

Charts-- 10 Facts About K-12 Education Funding


8.
There are no unfunded federal education "mandates." Every federal education law is conditioned on a state or other grantee's decision to accept federal program funds.

Federal education program "requirements" are not unfunded mandates because the conditions in federal law apply only when a state (or other grantee) voluntarily chooses to accept federal funds. Any state that does not want to abide by a federal program's requirements can simply choose not to accept the federal funds associated with that program. While most states choose to accept and use federal program funds, in the past, a few states have forgone funds for various reasons.


Archived: 10 Fact About K-12 Education Funding


In many states the larger portion of the cost is State dollars.

Loren

 

[Loren49]

This MSNBC host is just spouting the beliefs of the United Nations program called AGENDA 21. If you haven’t heard of United Nations AGENDA 21, it advocates that the government should raise the children instead of the parents because the government can do it better. They use the terms “living green” and “sustainable energy” to move their agenda along but underneath it their goal is to create a new world order. Obama has already signed over 900 executive orders to implement AGENDA 21 and it is currently underway in many cities in the US. I encourage each of you to find out more about AGENDA 21. It will affect how we live here in the US.

sounds like we ought to know more about Agenda 21

Some information on this:
The United Nations Agenda: Fact, Fiction & Conspiracy Theories

Let’s get some facts straight:


•Fact: Agenda 21 was a document adopted unanimously by 178 countries – including the U.S. represented by George H.W. Bush – at the 1992 United Nations Conference on Environment and Development in Rio de Janeiro (also known as the Earth Summit). Agenda 21 reflects a broad international consensus that worsening poverty and growing stresses on the environment require greater integration between environmental and development concerns.
•Fact: Agenda 21 is not a treaty and is not legally binding. Agenda 21 has no legal authority or precedent over a local U.S. jurisdiction or over a citizen. It is a blueprint or vision for development that simultaneously promotes economic growth, improved quality of life, and environmental protection. The conservative Heritage Foundation concurs that this is a nonbinding document.
•Fact: Agenda 21 does not call for the elimination of private property ownership, single-family homes, private car ownership, individual travel choices, or family farms. It is fully consistent with personal freedoms and the rights of citizens to own property, homes, cars, and farms.
•Fact: Agenda 21 does not take supremacy over U.S. law. National governments are in charge of their own development.

conspiracy | ThinkProgress

I'd like to see evidence of 900 executive orders relating to this. Note is was signed by George H W Bush. I've read a bit about this and it seems some talking heads have tried to create a conspiracy.

Loren

 

[daugen]

I kept going back to this sentence and rereading it. Almost like Confucius says:
My response to many of my young students when they asked "when will I ever use this" was "there is no way you will ever use it because you have not learned it".
Very wise.

I'd like to see evidence of 900 executive orders relating to this. Note is was signed by George H W Bush. I've read a bit about this and it seems some talking heads have tried to create a conspiracy.

Agreed, just posting, not promoting, and it sounds pretty fishy at this point.

 

[SPYDERLK]

AK - I would agree with you in a perfect world...It would be wonderful to be able to trust the teachers, school staff and others to help our children and to help us in raising them.

Here is the problem the way I see it, when we allow others to have free reign in helping to form our children's mind and view of life, we give up the freedom to control the input into their mind or handling during the time they are in the other persons care or custody...The news is full of examples of teachers and school staff that are of a far different political or religious persuasion than that of my wife and I ...so we would have to be very selective in choosing who we would entrust our children...

Have you heard some of the horror stories of what has been and is being taught to kids in school...just recently in one class room a teacher had all the students write " Jesus " on a sheet of paper and then told them all to throw it on the floor and stomp it...One boy refused and was suspended...his father had a meeting with the administrators and the teacher was either suspended or fired...just one example...

Yes, one example. Different, but as bad or worse is the avenue group "responsibility" opens toward control of the family. It sounds OK where the level is very well defined, but is actually insidious because it will grow like the trickle over a dam.
larry

 

[Gale Hawkins]

The importance of trigonometry to the real world is huge. Trigonometric functions are essential to many :branches of science and technology. It is the foundation of surveying and navigation....GPS wouldn't exist without it. Machinists use it to set exact angles. Builders use it to build on the square. Roads and highways are built using it. It's important and used on an everyday basis.

There's a lot of stuff covered in school that has absolutely no practical purpose but trig is far from being one of them.

great point.