Oil & Fuel Out of fuel DK45s

[buyerjohn]

I don't understand hardly anything that is written but never the less I think I am absorbing something. It was very helpful to se the photographs with the numbers on them. If that would have been done by John earlier I think this thread could have moved on quicker. Not a cut on you John just a comment for future posters, the discussion will be more efficient with labeled pics. It is only by reading things I don't understand at all that I grow. That is why this is such a god thread to read, John is asking really basic stuff. I'm learning. I am impatient for the finish to find out what the problem is, it's interesting.

I agree, pictures are always better...I think in this case, it seemed like an everyday situation of running out of fuel and, therefore, an easy fix so no pictures needed. Only after further debugging did it become apparent that running out of fuel may not be the issue (even though my tank was very low)...so the pictures helped.

But it takes time to take the pictures, label them, and upload them and in some cases that can take longer than the fix itself! I also think its bad that this forum doesn't host images because at some point they will disappear and the thread will be much worse because of that.

 

[dirtworksequip]

When you turn on the key you should be able to hear the selenoid click or feel it click. If the selenoid is working, I would think you should be able to pump fuel to the injectors with the primer pump.

 

[buyerjohn]

When you turn on the key you should be able to hear the selenoid click or feel it click. If the selenoid is working, I would think you should be able to pump fuel to the injectors with the primer pump.

we've pumped the fuel pump a lot and started the engine a bunch with the injection lines removed on top of the injector pump and there isn't a drop of fuel getting out of the injector pump...however, I didn't try hand pumping the fuel with the key on which, if the fuel reached the injector lines, would rule out the solenoid being bad.

I'm willing to bet that its an issue with the solenoid...either a fuse that I missed or a stuck solenoid...I could be wrong but that would make so much more sense given that the tractor never sputtered prior to stalling...and didn't sputter when I tried to immediately restart it...both of which I think would have happened if it was really out of fuel...perhaps its just a coincidence that the tank was so low at the time...and an issue that threw us off the correct path....this is interesting!

 

[IXLR8]

thanks for the detailed replies and the picture...there are 2 wires, red and blue, going to the solenoid - so hopefully that means its grounded.

Chances are the RED is the +12vdc and the Blue is ground.

1. Is the fuel shut off lever currently in the correct position?

Sorry I have no idea.

2. You say to test with a voltmeter...would starting the engine and watching the solenoid action (or lack thereof)accomplish the same thing?

I suspect it is all internal and you can't see anything. Unless you have the solenoid off. Then you should see the plunger retract, no need to try to start engine, just turn the key on.
Like DWE said, if solenoid is still on the injection pump, when you turn key on, you should feel it click as the plunger pulls in.

3. what is the normal position of the solenoid - out as shown in the picture?

yes

4. If yes to 3, is that why you say that pulling the solenoid will result in the tractor continuously running unless the shut off arm is moved forward?

plunger blocks flow of fuel when extended, when retracted/removed fuel flows. Some will run out, but some will make it to the pump and get injected... then the motor runs. And you have fuel all over. and the only way to shut it off is that lever, or at the fuel filter.

 

[Willl]

there are 2 wires, red and blue, going to the solenoid - so hopefully that means its grounded.

1. Is the fuel shut off lever currently in the correct position?
2. You say to test with a voltmeter...would starting the engine and watching the solenoid action (or lack thereof)accomplish the same thing?
3. what is the normal position of the solenoid - out as shown in the picture?
4. If yes to 3, is that why you say that pulling the solenoid will result in the tractor continuously running unless the shut off arm is moved forward ?

2 wires don't necessarily mean one is a ground and I'm going to bet it's not the case here also.

Most likely this solenoid is a dual coil setup. One coil being the 'pull in', the other being the 'hold' coil.

Which means you'll probably have to ground it. Try it without first and if no reaction, ground it and try again.

1) Yes. I believe it is. I wouldn't bet my life, but I would bet cash.

2) Just turning the key on to see if it pulls in would be my move. If it don't, grab the volt meter or test light and verify power is at least at one of the wires.

3) Yes, out as in the picture. There's a spring inside the solenoid pushing it out.

4) Yes, exactly. Both the #1 lever and #2 solenoid move the same tiny internal valve. (edit; actually, I believe they move a 'rack rod')

 

[Willl]

Once you get it out and if you find it won't move for you, post a pic of the solenoid.

 

[buyerjohn]

Once you get it out and if you find it won't move for you, post a pic of the solenoid.

will do

when i asked if the fuel shut off lever is in the "correct" position...I should've asked if it's in the "run" position...

 

[Willl]

I should've asked if it's in the "run" position...

The ones I've played with were spring loaded to sit in the 'run' position.

If yours is spring loaded into that position, I'm going to say yes it is.

 

[PILOON]

The ones I've played with were spring loaded to sit in the 'run' position.

If yours is spring loaded into that position, I'm going to say yes it is.

I think that would be the opposite as spring loaded in 'run' would want power always to be in 'off' and that would run a battery down!

Now assuming it is normally 'off' unless powered, he could simply (using a length of 'jumper wire') draw +12 volts directly from the battery to temporarily activate the solinoid.

I would assume that one solinoid wire is to ground and the other is the positive.
Being a coil it would not matter which recieved the +12 volts and wich would get grounded as either way the magnet will pull the solinoid to open.

If (and probably) there are 2 wires to the solinoid, then 2 jumpers would be needed as that solinoid coil needs a ground as well.

PS you would not 'burn the coil' as it is meant to run contiounisly with 12 volts on it.

 

[Willl]

I think that would be the opposite as spring loaded in 'run' would want power always to be in 'off' and that would run a battery down!

We're talking about the manual lever, the one marked #1.